[biker3]

Well i was thinking, since the DHR has been around a long time and although its an awsome bike loved by many it could be replaced. Why doesn't turner use their 5 spot design and aplly to a burlier/ more travel bike? Everyone seems to passionatly love there 5 spots and RFXs and such so why don't they try it? Im sure this has been thought of before but i was just thinking how they could make a really nice DH bike using the same linkage? It may be a dumb idea but just an epiphany i had while watching earthed..

Actually isnt the bike eric carter rides the so called "mongoose" sorta like a big travel 5 spot? i could be way off but it sure looked similar in the vid..

 

[FlipSide]

I believe what your talking about is the Turner Highline that's still in development unless they ditched the project.

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by FlipSide
I believe what your talking about is the Turner Highline that's still in development unless they ditched the project.

I think the Highline prototype was a single pivot though wasn't it?

 

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by biker3
Well i was thinking, since the DHR has been around a long time and although its an awsome bike loved by many it could be replaced.

Why doesn't turner use their 5 spot design and aplly to a burlier/ more travel bike? Everyone seems to passionatly love there 5 spots and RFXs and such so why don't they try it? Im sure this has been thought of before but i was just thinking how they could make a really nice DH bike using the same linkage?

Actually isnt the bike eric carter rides the so called "mongoose" sorta like a big travel 5 spot? i could be way off but it sure looked similar in the vid..

-Why? Proven/popular designs SHOULD stay around for awhile. Only needing to refine an excellent design as opposed to embracing new standards and looks is actually a sign of strength.

-Because at 6" the rear tire of my RFX is ][ that close to hitting the cable stop on my seat tube. Suspension geometry and shock rate can also get a bit funky if you try for more travel. Also, with more travel should come a bigger/longer shock, which in its position would decrease standover.

-I'm pretty sure Carter's "mongoose" is still an XCE, their discontinued 4" travel bike, so it's actually less travel than the 5spot.

So as was mentioned above, the Highline will be the answer you're looking for, a long-travel yet pedalable 4bar FR bike from Turner. The prototype looks related to the RFX in only a few ways, and more purpose built to today's long travel demands.

 

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by Acadian
nope...from Dave Turner on another forum

"And for those of you looking at the Highline, we really are working on something. It will be quite the tank though as it has to be Strong enough to handle the 8.5 rear setting and a Monster on the front. Kinda leaves a gap between the trail bike 5 spot and the extreme ride Highline. Something to ponder..... "

Ohhhhhhhhhh, haven't seen that quote before. Maybe an RFX will be back afterall? Hmmm.

 

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by Acadian
Can't wait for Interbike

That makes two of us!

Maybe this time you'll have enough time for a beer (or 6)?

 

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by Acadian
This time...make an appointment! hahaha

Definitely bro...lets hook up! That is IF I get a chance to go? Seems like everything I plan on going early...I end up not being able to make it

Yeah me too, not sure. Don't know if my boss considered it a successful expense sending his top 5 guys out there. Although it was supposed to be more of our summer bonus lol. I'm hoping to go again though for sure!

 

[laxincubus311]

its a sick design that works very well, just like how konas bikes have never real changed

 

[Incubus]

Just as Bulldog said... The reason that Turner went a away from a walking beam style suspension design in the highline (and the DHR before it) is because the walking beam design can fit only smaller size shocks due to it's verticle orientation.

He was using a 7.5"i2i, 2" stroke shock with a 3:1 leverage ratio. In order to increase the travel from 6", he'd need to increase the leverage ratio using the same size shock. Or make more room inside the front triangle which would adversely affect stand-over height.

Knolly, solved the problem by lying the shock down and activating it via two additional bars.

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by biker3
Why doesn't turner use their 5 spot design and aplly to a burlier/ more travel bike?

just for the hell of it, eh....

 

[MikeD]

If they built an expensive 4-bar DH bike, where would they be? In competition with Iron Horse and Intense and tons of other makers, even more than they are now. Nothing new design wise, and they'd lose their loyal single pivot following. I don't get it.

MD

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by MikeD
I don't get it.

MD

style, duh...

 

[COmtbiker12]

Originally posted by zedro
style, duh...

Of course, you gotta do it for the blingbling.

 

[kidwoo]

Here's something to ponder. Almost no 4-bar bike (most notably the fsr ones) will match the stiffness of a big ass single pivot with a swing link. The DHR and even more so the Foes bikes are good examples of this. I ride 3 fsr bikes for xc, freeride and jump rigs and my DH bike is a single pivot.

At slower speeds, the fsr designs feel way more compliant than the average singe pivot for the same ratio and spring weights. This is extremely apparent on rocky climbs. This is why I bought an fsr freeride bike. I ride some of the same terrain on my norco 7" as I do my DH bike. It can handle it but doens't track near as solidly as my DHR. BUT I also ride the norco on the same trails that I ride my xc bike and the suspension is very supple on both climbs and descents where I'm not maching at DH speeds.

In a nutshell, I'd say the fsr bikes are better for what turner uses them for......lower speed descending bikes meant to be climbed. Smacking the crap out of rocks at 20-30mph can make ANY suspension design active so why not go with the laterally stiffer design for DH?

 

[Curb Hucker]

One RFX

Two RFX (7in travel)

Three RFX (7.25in Travel)

Four

Notice how the lombda has RFX-style FSR 4-bar not specialized style. The lambda feels just like a giant RFX

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by ViolentVolante
Notice how the lombda has RFX-style.......

.............made gay.

What size shocks have you got on the increased travel RFXs?

 

[Curb Hucker]

Originally posted by kidwoo
.............made gay.

What size shocks have you got on the increased travel RFXs?

dont be hatin

And for the increased travel RFXs, the shock size is ..... STOCK Leverage out the wazoo

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by ViolentVolante
dont be hatin

And for the increased travel RFXs, the shock size is ..... STOCK Leverage out the wazoo

I don't hate. I condescend.

Seriously though, what was the stock length on those things? That became the lucky 7 bike I wanted so bad that never got made.

 

[Curb Hucker]

it was 7.5 x 2.0 size shock. I blew up the romic we tested the plates on , i learned a 3.5:1 leverage ratio on a romic = bad idea, but hey it blew twice on the origional setup with 3:1 leverage, so i blame romic

with the 5th and a new set of plates that gave it 7.25in of travel, the leverage was still 3.5:1 but it never bottomed with the 5th, and the 5th didnt blow either. Then i sold the bike, which i still miss

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Originally posted by kidwoo
Here's something to ponder. Almost no 4-bar bike (most notably the fsr ones) will match the stiffness of a big ass single pivot with a swing link. The DHR and even more so the Foes bikes are good examples of this. I ride 3 fsr bikes for xc, freeride and jump rigs and my DH bike is a single pivot.

At slower speeds, the fsr designs feel way more compliant than the average singe pivot for the same ratio and spring weights. This is extremely apparent on rocky climbs. This is why I bought an fsr freeride bike. I ride some of the same terrain on my norco 7" as I do my DH bike. It can handle it but doens't track near as solidly as my DHR. BUT I also ride the norco on the same trails that I ride my xc bike and the suspension is very supple on both climbs and descents where I'm not maching at DH speeds.

In a nutshell, I'd say the fsr bikes are better for what turner uses them for......lower speed descending bikes meant to be climbed. Smacking the crap out of rocks at 20-30mph can make ANY suspension design active so why not go with the laterally stiffer design for DH?

When was the last time your hands were shaken off the handlebars, or you got severe arm pump, or your feet got kicked off the pedals, doing XC? IMO you want less active for XC and more active for DH. Smacking the crap out of rocks at high speed wants maximum compliance, not "yeah I've got a 100000lb spring on there, but this'll get it moving"...

That said, I find DHRs to be one of the more active/supple bikes; the little shock link makes all the difference.

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by thaflyinfatman
When was the last time your hands were shaken off the handlebars, or you got severe arm pump, or your feet got kicked off the pedals, doing XC? IMO you want less active for XC and more active for DH. Smacking the crap out of rocks at high speed wants maximum compliance, not "yeah I've got a 100000lb spring on there, but this'll get it moving"...

That said, I find DHRs to be one of the more active/supple bikes; the little shock link makes all the difference.

Where I live the DH terrain differs from the xc terrain only in terms of there being a lift above it. But I also don't ride my xc bike like I do my DH bike because it would disentigrate. I don't want to start some stupid regional thing, I'm just letting you know my xc world.

So if you agree with me that single pivot bikes of the same amount of travel and leverage ratios etc will be less supple than fsrs (my assumption not yours), would you want to use any less of your travel (in terms of fraction of total travel, not just amount) just because you're on an xc ride?

My point was that at slower velocities, the more supple design will provide you with a better use of your travel. But to answer your question, if I needed a 10000....lb spring to keep my bike from bottoming but still using the travel at the speeds I was attaining then yes.......that would be effective use of my suspension. I tried out several single pivot freeride bikes before buying an fsr and they felt like DH bikes........meant to be hit hard before the suspension was being utilized. One of them was a fly which is essentially a DHR with front shifting. This sucks for climbing where you're sometimes barely moving.

But progression rates also come into play......where the DHR is supple because it has a god awful rising rate that makes it loose at the top and almost impossible to bottom.

I use all the travel on all my bikes and am happy with the fsrs that I climb on. You don't have to be.

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by kidwoo
would you want to use any less of your travel (in terms of fraction of total travel, not just amount) just because you're on an xc ride?

people do (or did) that to keep their bike from bobbing (as much) though. That was the logic behind regressive designs.

When i tested the Demo9, it was setup so it pedalled great and you could hammer all you want, but it never felt supple.

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by zedro
people do (or did) that to keep their bike from bobbing (as much) though. That was the logic behind regressive designs.

When i tested the Demo9, it was setup so it pedalled great and you could hammer all you want, but it never felt supple.

Play with it. And by all means, climb with it. It can work like a freakin dream climbing up rocky stuff......aside from the weight.
We've got one built up at the shop I kind of work at. It's unbeleivable how much variation you can get out the the swinger on that thing. I was planning on taking it out to Northstar when they open (the bike's a rental). For that reason I've been screwing around with it a lot. You can get it to feel pretty responsive climbing but this is with very little air pressure on the spv chamber.

Something I totally forgot to mention was the axle paths of fsrs. They're fairly vertical on the initial part of the stroke so that they are a little more active on the high torque climbing aspect. This hits my brain as "more supple". I'm not an fsr junkie but this is the one area I do feel they excel. Lateral stiffness on the other hand........

Again my original point was that with turner (thread topic) I think they get such a huge gain out of the stiffness of the rear ends, that the fsr design would detract from it's overall performance.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Originally posted by kidwoo
Where I live the DH terrain differs from the xc terrain only in terms of there being a lift above it. But I also don't ride my xc bike like I do my DH bike because it would disentigrate. I don't want to start some stupid regional thing, I'm just letting you know my xc world.

So if you agree with me that single pivot bikes of the same amount of travel and leverage ratios etc will be less supple than fsrs (my assumption not yours), would you want to use any less of your travel (in terms of fraction of total travel, not just amount) just because you're on an xc ride?

My point was that at slower velocities, the more supple design will provide you with a better use of your travel. But to answer your question, if I needed a 10000....lb spring to keep my bike from bottoming but still using the travel at the speeds I was attaining then yes.......that would be effective use of my suspension. I tried out several single pivot freeride bikes before buying an fsr and they felt like DH bikes........meant to be hit hard before the suspension was being utilized. One of them was a fly which is essentially a DHR with front shifting. This sucks for climbing where you're sometimes barely moving.

But progression rates also come into play......where the DHR is supple because it has a god awful rising rate that makes it loose at the top and almost impossible to bottom.

I use all the travel on all my bikes and am happy with the fsrs that I climb on. You don't have to be.

Fair enough, I prefer to have my DH bike as supple as possible (within reason obviously, I don't run 60% sag or anything) for traction and fatigue reasons. Whenever I'm riding XC, I want less travel because I can deal with the bumps due to the much lower speeds, and the only time I really want it to move is when I do hit something hard (which is not often, compared to the DH bike). Personal preference obviously.

You don't like the rising rate on the DHR?

 

[DH Dad]

Originally posted by ViolentVolante
it was 7.5 x 2.0 size shock. I blew up the romic we tested the plates on , i learned a 3.5:1 leverage ratio on a romic = bad idea, but hey it blew twice on the origional setup with 3:1 leverage, so i blame romic

with the 5th and a new set of plates that gave it 7.25in of travel, the leverage was still 3.5:1 but it never bottomed with the 5th, and the 5th didnt blow either. Then i sold the bike, which i still miss

I recall DT telling me not to run a 5th on an RFX since it's a progressive shock and the frame design is progressive in the first place. He actually makes custom links for Eric Carter's DHR so he can run a 5th on it.

If you're going over a 3:1 ratio (those custom plates) then just run an Avalanche in back, heck run the 7.5x2.25 with a 24" wheel and get 7.875" of travel from your RFX. Or just ride your RFX, I rode West Mtn. on mine with a Z150 up front last year and I never longed for more travel in the rear but I also wasn't riding at race speeds, just freeriding on a DH mtn.

I contemplated racing DH on my RFX this year but I love that bike so much that I forked out dough for a new DHR so I don't abuse it terribly. I may just race XC on the RFX this year though, it's that complete of an all around bike and with the Avalanche in the rear with quite a few clicks of compression it climbs better than any bike I've ever owned.

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by thaflyinfatman
Fair enough, I prefer to have my DH bike as supple as possible (within reason obviously, I don't run 60% sag or anything) for traction and fatigue reasons. Whenever I'm riding XC, I want less travel because I can deal with the bumps due to the much lower speeds, and the only time I really want it to move is when I do hit something hard (which is not often, compared to the DH bike). Personal preference obviously.

You don't like the rising rate on the DHR?

I've got all my bikes set up softer than what is recommended so yeah my DHR gets the squish as well. After getting serious about DH, my XC riding changed dramatically. I frequently get myself into the "lean back, hold on and see what happens" situations normally reserved for big bikes and full pads........but it's still at slower speeds than the DH riding. Getting spoiled by big travel, I make sure that I'm using all meager 5 inches of my enduro though.

I do like the progressive rate of the DHR, but I sometimes feel that I'm not gettting the full travel out of it. I've only bottomed it once and that was on a huge gap jump. It feels balanced with my fork (which I've also only bottomed once) a WB dh2. Both are really loose initially and ramp up like a bitch in the last inch or so. But then again that's just how those bikes ride, more like a jumping deer in the woods than like a bulldozer. I don't know if you've ridden a cuervo but it's a more linear feel of the same basic ideas. I did feel like I was getting full travel but it also felt a little less hop friendly sitting so deep. I'm a short guy so I like that about the turners.

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by zedro
style, duh...

But I thought single-pivots were back "in" this year, especially when paired with a fetching Ti-spring new-school anti-bob shock...

Guess we'll have to see what debuts on the runway next year. (Hmmm, maybe Turner should rename its models Blue Steel, Le Tigre, Ferrarri, and MAGNUM!)

MD

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by Acadian
I wonder how the new commencal feel (suspension wise) compared to the DHR and El Cuervo?

Looks a lot like a RM-7 with that dog-bone thing.

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by -BB-
Looks a lot like a RM-7 with that dog-bone thing.

So do turners.

 

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by Acadian
another DT quote

Where do you find these quotes? Turner forum at mtbr? I'm there everyday and must miss them!

 

[kidwoo]

Originally posted by Bulldog
Where do you find these quotes? Turner forum at mtbr? I'm there everyday and must miss them!

..........just one of the 16 or so voices he regularly hears in his head. I think one of them is Ethel Merman singing showtunes. He just shares the bikey bikey ones here though.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Originally posted by biker3
Well i was thinking, since the DHR has been around a long time and although its an awsome bike loved by many it could be replaced. Why doesn't turner use their 5 spot design and aplly to a burlier/ more travel bike?

:getting into the way-back machine: The DHR evolved from the AfterBurner, which is basically an RFX. Turner went with something with a lower CG and more rigidity when travel got longer...

 

[MikeD]

There's a dude who races an AfterBurner pretty regularly here at Fontana, CA. Polished with orange stickers. When I see him and I'm on my RFX, I give him the little,'Sup?' nod.

I like the holes in his HT gussets.

MD

 

[Zark]

Originally posted by MikeD
There's a dude who races an AfterBurner pretty regularly here at Fontana, CA. Polished with orange stickers. When I see him and I'm on my RFX, I give him the little,'Sup?' nod.

I like the holes in his HT gussets.

MD

His name is Brad.

He won a sport race at BB with a broken der. cable. He was stuck in the tallest gear and hammered it out. I only beat him when he crashes! He is now an expert I believe.

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by Zark
His name is Brad.

He won a sport race at BB with a broken der. cable. He was stuck in the tallest gear and hammered it out. I only beat him when he crashes! He is now an expert I believe.

Cool. Brad. Now I can say, 'Sup, Brad?'

 

[Tenacious Doug]

Originally posted by Acadian
I wonder how the new commencal feel (suspension wise) compared to the DHR and El Cuervo?

The same




But French




Seriously though, I am pretty sure that its a shorter travel rig, 180mm if I remember rightly....Max Commencal certainly applying the old Sunn school of thought to his bike design still.

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by MikeD
(Hmmm, maybe Turner should rename its models Blue Steel, Le Tigre, Ferrarri, and MAGNUM!)

but its all the damn same damn look!!! They're completly identical!!! Am i the only one not on crazy pills?!!!

 

[Curb Hucker]

Originally posted by zedro
Am i the only one not on crazy pills?!!!

you dont need them, you are naturally Bi-polar

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by zedro
but its all the damn same damn look!!! They're completly identical!!! Am i the only one not on crazy pills?!!!

Relax, go to it, when you wanna get to it, relax.......

 

[zedro]

Originally posted by Jm_
Relax, go to it, when you wanna get to it, relax.......

....must....resist....the beautiful people.....

oh crap, now i'm break-dance fighting......