[iridebikes]

So there are a fair amount of people who think that illegal underground racing is awesome and a great way to progress the sport and help the community around the world. Our good friends to the north had a group of people that held a race on Burnaby Mountain.

For those of you that don't know, Burnaby is a very careful balancing act between the trail builders and the land owners. There are very few trails that are allowed on Burnaby and they are only allowed if they adhear to a strict set of rules put in place by the land owners.

A local group of people who were all about racing decided to hold a race there. Not that bad right? Wrong. Not only were they holding an illegal race on land that could easily be shut down by the land owners, they got the brilliant idea to hold it on a trail that was shut down to mountain bikes all together. A large group of people isn't bad right? Just 20 or 30 riders isn't that bad right? They also posted video and pictures online for everyone to see how "awesome" they were and how well it all went.

Little did they realize how much the rest of the bike comunity now hates them all for puting the entire trail system on Burnaby at risk of closure to mountain bikes.

We should view this as a lesson. Illegal racing is not benificial to anyone but those that are puting it on. Sooner or later it will come back to bike them in the ass... Looks like it happened sooner than expected for those guys.

You can read the local Canadian thread about this on NSMB.

 

[SteezyWeezy]

that blows, where is the vid?

 

[iridebikes]

videos have been taken down due to the fact that people are getting mad about it. The people who put on the race have said they were sorry and regreted putting it on, but none of that would have happened if the threads about the race being a bad idea were ever started.

 

[stinky6]

I wouldn't say this is a good argument against illegal racing, its a good reason why not to ride closed trails especially with a bunch of friends. If 10, 20 or 30 guys want to go out to a bike trail and do timed runs down it no problem; just make sure you don't leave trash and more importantly when your done go do some maintenance. If you have that many riders maintenance would be fast, there would probably more time spent hiking to the spots that needed work.

 

[Lumberjack]

We are having an issue with Dirt Jump builders at the Victoria Tract of the tree farm. This past Sunday I took out 2 separate dj lines up top. This coming Sunday 2 more dj lines down towards the bottom will be removed. Poaching up there is bad enough but building without permission is over the top. The horse folks are the land stewards up there. All it takes is a couple of complaints and the bikes are done. To the 2 gentlemen with the DH bikes that are running around up there you are jeopardizing these trails for the rest of us just like in the post that started this trail.


Thanks,
Scott

 

[Spahman]

Hey scott when does that trail open?
I can keep a eye open for you... I'm always running that short single track on my DH bike to get a warm up

btw its got to be a couple of kids... My friends and I are smart enough if were gonna build DJ's.. you don't build them on a public trail
you aren't going to find them ;]

 

[Spahman]

Everyones still got a little rebel left in them ;\

 

[bent^biker]

To the 2 gentlemen with the DH bikes that are running around up there you are jeopardizing these trails for the rest of us just like in the post that started this trail.


Thanks,
Scott

Scott,

Here is where you are wrong. Dh bikes and riders do not jeopardize riding opportunities, stupidity does. Just because we do not wear spandex or have a direct relationship between saddle height and how much fun we have riding does not mean we are all baddies (to borrow a term). For the most part downhillers have more respect for trails then xc riders do because we have fought harder to gain access to them. Unless you have seen these two guys actually building illegal trail features or violating rules how about you hold off on the blame game, these two riders have just as much a right to be there as you do. Furthermore you might want to invest a little time in understanding our side of the sport. If you really are worried about dirt jumps being built then there is no way that somebody with a downhill bike is the one doing it. You would know this if you knew the difference between a dirtjumps and jumps that happen to be built out of dirt. Sorry for the rant but this type of attitude gets under my skin. I am all for following the rules but that does not mean it is bash on dh time.

peace

 

[sanjuro]

I wouldn't say this is a good argument against illegal racing, its a good reason why not to ride closed trails especially with a bunch of friends. If 10, 20 or 30 guys want to go out to a bike trail and do timed runs down it no problem; just make sure you don't leave trash and more importantly when your done go do some maintenance. If you have that many riders maintenance would be fast, there would probably more time spent hiking to the spots that needed work.

Unless this was a night race, what happens when there is a hiker on the trail? Maybe with his kid?

 

[downhillracer]

I agree with above comment about riding an illegal trail being the real root problem. Some guys have had races out at SST that weren't USA cycling sactioned, blah, blah, etc, etc. and they went off fine and everyone had a good time.

edit: I believe DH riders get a bad rap just because of the nature of the riding we do. Everyone thinks we are so bad because we go over crawling speed on the trails and wear full face helmets instead of abiding by the a-typical mtn biker vision of a dude on a rigid bike pedalling around at no more than walking pace. It doesn't help to have idiots like that holding a race on a HIKING trail. That will only fuel people's displeasure with downhillers.

 

[stinky6]

Unless this was a night race, what happens when there is a hiker on the trail? Maybe with his kid?

I said BIKE trail, not multi use. Doing this sort of thing on a multi use trail would require a lot more organization which kind of defeats the point. If someone was hiking on a bike trail, legal or not, I would stop and let them know other bikers will be coming down the trail at high speeds and they should be alert and ready to move.

 

[seand]

I said BIKE trail, not multi use.

This is an excellent point. But therein also lies a problem. For areas like Seattle, how many bike-only trails are there that are legal to hold races on?

It takes a very "way out there" place to pull this off without any negative feedback or a rather rare landowner/builder agreement...both are almost impossible around these parts.

Doing this sort of thing on a multi use trail would require a lot more organization which kind of defeats the point.

Doing so on a multi-use trail would also cause a problem if a vocal hiker did not appreciate being stopped, turned around or, worst case scenario, run over. A move like this has to be a bike-only trail for starters.

If someone was hiking on a bike trail, legal or not, I would stop and let them know other bikers will be coming down the trail at high speeds and they should be alert and ready to move.

See above point. Around here there are always random curious hikers checking out the bike trails. I'd say 99% of them find it awesome what people are doing on bikes and just love to watch. These people would be stoked to see a race in progress. But you get that grouchy 1%, and chances are good you would find them just outside Issaquah, be prepared for an angry land steward.

I think having a place to play with freelap equipment is great. But I think such places need to be more off the beaten path and kept far more on the down low to prevent such things from happening. Close-to-home trails that are used by the masses are not the place to be selfish and put at risk for an afternoon of fun for a few.

 

[downhillracer]

But you get that grouchy 1%, and chances are good you would find them just outside Issaquah, be prepared for an angry land steward.

This is so true. I hate the attitude of people in the area.

 

[ridetilludie]

Lots of hiker nazis around the quah.lthumbsdown: Heart of the anti-crowd no thanks to the likes of harvey manning and ira spring.

 

[ShawnStaberow]

Why would any group need to hold an illegal race in Washington when we have the Fluidride Cup? I have seen hikers on some local trails outside Issaquah a couple times, and they have all been friendly, but just think if you were in race mode and plowed into one. It would just take one pissed off hiker to complain to DNR to get some sweet riding spots closed. Don't be selfish, think about the hard work some local riders have put into the trails and what the outcome of one race could have on them. I know if the trails I ride got closed because of illegal racing there would be some pissed off motherf**kers.

 

[Borneo]

Spahman, The area is still closed until May 1st. Just like every year.

Bent: The DH guys in question were only brought up because Scott has seen them riding out there during the closed time while out there with permission from the land owner doing trail maintenance etc. I don't think it was any direct dig on the full faced clan. Just an observation.

Won't it be nice when places like Duthie are open and legal "mini-DH" training or out right races can be done without issues like this coming up?

 

[seand]

Spahman, The area is still closed until May 1st. Just like every year.

Bent: The DH guys in question were only brought up because Scott has seen them riding out there during the closed time while out there with permission from the land owner doing trail maintenance etc. I don't think it was any direct dig on the full faced clan. Just an observation.

Won't it be nice when places like Duthie are open and legal "mini-DH" training or out right races can be done without issues like this coming up?

I was thinking more like...won't it be nice when Stevens opens up and we have legal full length dh training or out right races without issues like this coming up?

...'til then it's the FR Cup, exits and Whistler. Those have satisfied many for quite a few seasons already, what's one more.

 

[Makana425]

I was thinking more like...won't it be nice when Stevens opens up and we have legal full length dh training or out right races without issues like this coming up?

...'til then it's the FR Cup, exits and Whistler. Those have satisfied many for quite a few seasons already, what's one more.

Would be sweet to see Snoqualmie Pass open again like they had a world cup back in 1998.

 

[MMike]

UCI World's at Colonnade in 2011....it's true.

 

[Skookum]

It's pretty straight forward, these are some rare examples of mt. bikers who do over the top stupid stuff. If this minority of people put in half the amount of effort to help mt. bikers instead of their own selfish reasons, life would be much better.

The guy in the NSMB thread posted the names publicly of many racers, and i think that's appropriate in cases where you are doing something so selfish and stupid you are compromising EVERYBODY's ride opportunities.

i think that tactic is a last resort, people should be given the benefit of the doubt sometimes. But at a certain point, don't people have to stand in the face of the decisions they made good or bad?

 

[Lumberjack]

OK guys as Borneo pointed out for me. The 2 DH guys have been seen. I saw them this weekend.

No they are not a couple of kids. Late 20's or early 30's so I would imagine they should be old enough to know better.

For those of you who never saw my old fat self race DH my log on Lumberjack comes from all the trees I laid a butt-whippin' on while trying to ride a DH bike. I was not singling out a certain type of riding but 2 individuals who need to obey the rules before they screw it up for every one that enjoys those trails.

We also have a shop on the northend that is not following the rules and I placed a call to them also.

If this post has left any more doubts about finger pointing please call me at the shop and I will be glad to discuss it further off the open forum. 425-334-7812

Thanks,
Scott

 

[seand]

Would be sweet to see Snoqualmie Pass open again like they had a world cup back in 1998.

Yeah but hasn't Snoq made it painfully clear over the last few seasons that this is not going to happen? At least there is a Stevens rep on these forums sharing their plans for an upcoming bike park...personally I don't care which opens as long as we our own bike park in the future

 

[downhillracer]

I was thinking more like...won't it be nice when Stevens opens up and we have legal full length dh training or out right races without issues like this coming up?

...'til then it's the FR Cup, exits and Whistler. Those have satisfied many for quite a few seasons already, what's one more.

I know! stevens pass being open is gonna be so awesome. so they are going at construction full bore this summer? anyone know?

 

[ridetilludie]

I heard they are broke and will not be going full steam ahead. Hope it's not true getting tired of the wait till next year, year after year after yearlthumbsdown:. I don't think they would have much trouble getting dozens of volunteers to build.

At least they get it, add a new revenue stream to help offset seasonality and existing fixed costs. On the other hand Snoqualmie has their head up their arse.

 

[Certified Drunk]

Snoqualmie has their head up their arse.

It must be a nice place, cause it's been up their for 5+ years!

 

[DesuL]

Soon there will be more legal trails to hold weekend pickup races on. It is an important part of bike culture and (let call them pickup) races are awesome way to get your fix between FR cup events and other USA sanctioned races. Will be nice when the land is there to do it on with no risk of shutting it down.

 

[Spahman]

OK guys as Borneo pointed out for me. The 2 DH guys have been seen. I saw them this weekend.

No they are not a couple of kids. Late 20's or early 30's so I would imagine they should be old enough to know better.

For those of you who never saw my old fat self race DH my log on Lumberjack comes from all the trees I laid a butt-whippin' on while trying to ride a DH bike. I was not singling out a certain type of riding but 2 individuals who need to obey the rules before they screw it up for every one that enjoys those trails.

We also have a shop on the northend that is not following the rules and I placed a call to them also.

If this post has left any more doubts about finger pointing please call me at the shop and I will be glad to discuss it further off the open forum. 425-334-7812

Thanks,
Scott

ha I bet i know what shop that is... ;D

 

[ryanrider]

So before this thread settles to the bottom... Didn't a few guys decide to host a low-key, unsanctioned Super D type race at St. Eds a year or so ago? Just for fun. I know its no the same as a dh race held on a closed trail, but i do remember names and photos posted, along with stories of pissed off hikers. Not calling anyone out, just saying..

 

[iridebikes]

Not sure about a super d race. There was a small 45 sec. mini dh race there. It was on a public use trail. One hiker got mad because one of the riders was quite rude to him. 99% of the people there were polite to everyone and would hold racers untill hikers had gone through and the area was clear. But because one person was rude to this one hiker, he complained and the parks department asked that permits be aquired before puting on anything else like that in St. Eds. Not that the people puting it on couldn't do it, but that a legal permit be ussued for the next one.

 

[Lumberjack]

This past Sunday was open season on trail poachers again at the tree farm. XC rigs and FR rigs. All ages were represented by poachers. Every one of them thought they had a good reason for being out there early. One of the young gentlemen was wearing a full race kit for the junior development team he rides for. Not the nicest young man when I spoke to him and wanted to do more verbal sparring with a lady in our work group. Wish that young man had known he was being rude to one of the board members of the PRA ie the group that is the land stewards there. I'm not the trail cop but rules are rules.

 

[Spahman]

a full race kit at the tree farm? ha what a noob

a huge over kill for the trails at the tree farm...

 

[Lumberjack]

Wasn't a DH kit

 

[ebxtreme]

Not sure about a super d race. There was a small 45 sec. mini dh race there. It was on a public use trail. One hiker got mad because one of the riders was quite rude to him. 99% of the people there were polite to everyone and would hold racers untill hikers had gone through and the area was clear. But because one person was rude to this one hiker, he complained and the parks department asked that permits be aquired before puting on anything else like that in St. Eds. Not that the people puting it on couldn't do it, but that a legal permit be ussued for the next one.

This isn't exactly consistent with what you said here.

Illegal racing is not benificial to anyone but those that are puting it on. Sooner or later it will come back to bike them in the ass... Looks like it happened sooner than expected for those guys.

Nice use of "Super D" to make it sound all nice and fluffy!

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[iridebikes]

Nice use of "Super D" to make it sound all nice and fluffy

My use of "super D" was in response to "Didn't a few guys decide to host a low-key, unsanctioned Super D type race at St. Eds a year or so ago?"

I honestly don't know if there was a super d race out there. There might have been, I just don't know if there was or not.

This isn't exactly consistent with what you said here.

The parks department got on the case of the people who put on the mini dh race there. They were told not to hold anymore races without permits. Wasn't the best idea to do it without permits in a public use park such as that, but it was done and leson learned. Permits make people and land owners happy.