I currently have a SC Bullit I use for Shuttled DH. I purchased a floater @ the end of the season but never installed it. Now that I have all my components paid for I keep looking @ the VP Free frameset. Problem is the price $$$. On paper the Free has more going for it than the Bullit - 8.5" travel , VPP suspension, stiffer etc. I'd like to pull the trigger on the Free but I keep wondering will I be blown away by how much better the Free rides or will I go I spent $$$ and it rides only marginally better ? FYI pedalling efficiency doesn't concern me. Thanx
Keep Bullit or go VP Free, help deciding ?
- Thread starter keen
- Start date
If the difference between the bullit and the VPfree is anything like the difference between my old super 8 and new V10, theyre not even in the same ball park. I would suspect you will be blown away by how much better the VPfree is.
Yeah the VP free will perform alot better than your bullit. I would definetly reccomend the upgrade. They ride soo smooth.
i moved from a bullit to a vp-free. I probably wouldn't have thought about selling it, except for the fact that my bullit was really ghetto, and wasn't riding well (needed lots of parts). i decided to treat myslef to a brand new bike instead of fixing up my bullit and i picked the vp-free. I don't regret it at all...
The vp-free is a much more stable bike on the downhill. VPP suspension + the extra inch and a half pedals better (although i've got mine set up for more small bump sensivity, rather than pedaling efficiency), and sucks up everything on the trails that the bullit didn't. I like my VP-free alot more... even though it's a bit harder to throw around when in the air... but that's because it's a longer bike.
if you have the money, then i'd make the upgrade... you won't be disappointed.
The vp-free is a much more stable bike on the downhill. VPP suspension + the extra inch and a half pedals better (although i've got mine set up for more small bump sensivity, rather than pedaling efficiency), and sucks up everything on the trails that the bullit didn't. I like my VP-free alot more... even though it's a bit harder to throw around when in the air... but that's because it's a longer bike.
if you have the money, then i'd make the upgrade... you won't be disappointed.
i just got off my bullit and got on to a free too, just yesterday infact.
the free is slightly bigger then a bullit (s size to s size) what i miss on the bullit is the slack HA, the free is wayy to steep, i am thinking about puting in a 2.5x8.5 in shox to lover the bb and slacken the HA. someone has done it before. oh yea get the dhx for it, coz the 5th feels like A$$,
the free is slightly bigger then a bullit (s size to s size) what i miss on the bullit is the slack HA, the free is wayy to steep, i am thinking about puting in a 2.5x8.5 in shox to lover the bb and slacken the HA. someone has done it before. oh yea get the dhx for it, coz the 5th feels like A$$,
What forks are you running DHkid? Also how much sag you running? I know they have a relativelly high BB but you should sink close to the Bullit hight when ridding.
i am runnig a fox 40 at 7in, dont wanna run it at 8. and i hate the 5th anyways, so i am going to get it replaced with a dhx 2.75 or 2.5 asap.
i might be able to get the same bb height as the bullit when riding but then i want a lower bb height. its mainly the HA that i dont like, so the 2.5 shox would be nice.
i might be able to get the same bb height as the bullit when riding but then i want a lower bb height. its mainly the HA that i dont like, so the 2.5 shox would be nice.
Can you let me know how that goes please,I have a VP-free frame and 40s but I wanna sell the frame and get a Brooklyn racelink if possible,but if I can't get good cash for the VP-free I'll happily keep it,I wanna chuck an air shock in the arse of it but and may go for your shorter shock idea but I doubt it as I'm confident with good sag and set up properly it will have good BB hight.I agree though,high BBs are lame.
Sorry to mini Hijack this thread.
Sorry to mini Hijack this thread.
i once got my bullit set up with a 64 HA, was super sweeet, really point and shoot. but then the bb was like 15.
cant seem to find the tread anymore.Thats weird, a friend of mine has almost the identical setup and I his H/A isnt that steep at all. His BB is around the same though...dhkid said:
I'lll also cast a vote for keeping the Bullit. I did what Daver said and had my friend who is a machinist make me a new shuttle that slacks the bike out even more. It was kind of a trial and error thing - you can't make it too much more slack than stock or the rear tire will hit the frame when you bottom it out. We finally found the right front eyelet location, and it results in being about a 65.5 - 66 degree head angle, with my 06 66RC2X. (Wow that's a lot of 6's!) It also lowers the BB. Bike weight is 41 pounds with Diabolus components and an *AVALANCHE* shock. The bike shreds.Daver said:
The Bullit has been around for quite awhile, and I've been on one for almost 5 years now, and it's never let me down. I've been on all the latest bikes, and to tell you the truth, it all boils down to the rider. The Bullit has some pedal feedback in the granny ring, but I feel it pedals quite well in the big ring, which is where you want it to pedal well. I think it's funny how a lot of riders get a new bike every year, and others who keep the same bike season after season can still school them in a race. The Bullit is more than enough for most people.
The free was built with 8" forks in mind. If you are riding a 7" fork with newer style flat crowns (like a 40) it's got a shorter axle-crown distance and yeah, will be steeper. It's helpful to speak in actual angles...do you know what the head angle is? My free with an 8" 888and flat crowns has a head angle of 65.5, which is plenty slack for me.
Running a 2.5 stroke does what you say but reduces travel a bit too. People ride 2.5 stroke DHX airs and Fox 36's on frees and love it.
Running a 2.5 stroke does what you say but reduces travel a bit too. People ride 2.5 stroke DHX airs and Fox 36's on frees and love it.
This has always been a concern with both bikes for me. I ran my Bullit last season with a 7.78" eie shock (shuttle forward) and a Shiver DC 575mm a-c height BB height was 14.5". This winter I moved the shuttle back and went to a 150mm Z1 (538mm a-c) BB height is 13.5". This week I installed an 8.5" eie shock (shuttle forward) and the Z1 the BB height was 15". SC claims the Bullit has a 14.1/14.8" BB height w/ a 544mm a-c fork - I don't see how they come up w/ these spec's. I also don't see it possible to have a BB height lower than 15" using any fork w/ an a-c height more than 544mm & an 8.5" eie shock ? I tried the 8.5" shock and an 888 fork and had a 15.75" BB height ! A custom shuttle may be an option but tire clearance comes into question. With the 7.78" eie shock / fork combo's my HA is 65/66*. Now SC claims the Free has a 14.8 " BB height - I measured a free w/ a 544 mm a-c fork and the BB was 14.5". An 888 should put the BB @ 15.25" and the HA @ 64/65*. My Bullit w/ a 13.5" BB feels great I just can't see it w/ a 8.5" shock . The Free w/ an 8.5" shock drops the travel to 7". I think if I was going to consider a shorter shock on the Free i'd have the wrong bike. They are both tall BB freeride designs. If someone has some actual Free BB heights w/ what fork would help ? Thanx
Sell the bullit, get a Canfield Balance or Lucky.......CROOOOOMMMOOO.
Don't switch for performance. It is the rider not the bike in this scenario.( at least in my case I believe in this idea)
It is a provem simple, reliable, capable design. Keep it.
Unless you think it would be more fun to try something different. In that case then do it.
Convert the rear end to bolt-on BMX axle to stiffen it up.
It is a provem simple, reliable, capable design. Keep it.
Unless you think it would be more fun to try something different. In that case then do it.
Convert the rear end to bolt-on BMX axle to stiffen it up.
I don't have the AC measurement here, but the BB on my free with 8" 888, go-ride flat crowns, and kenda 2.7 DH tires is 15". (It was 15.5 with the stock crowns.) Those kendas are large volume and tall but with tires for normal people I think the claim of 14.8 is pretty accurate.keen said:
OGRipper said:
Where in Nor cal. do you ride ?
{QUOTE} Don't switch for performance. It is the rider not the bike in this scenario.( at least in my case I believe in this idea)
It is a provem simple, reliable, capable design. Keep it.
Unless you think it would be more fun to try something different. In that case then do it.
Convert the rear end to bolt-on BMX axle to stiffen it up.
Well sure the its the rider that controls the ride but factor that out of the equation - a better bike makes for a better rider regardless of the skill level in question.
I always run solid axles - 12mm hub with 12/10 stepped axle.
Quote: "Well sure the its the rider that controls the ride but factor that out of the equation - a better bike makes for a better rider "
You have two very comparable bikes here. Not sure I agree one is "better".
I don't buy that a certain bike will make you a better rider concept. Given some bikes are more specific to one type or other of riding (XC vs DH). But, in this scenario the two frames are both in the freeride class. So, the rider will be the single most important factor. Not pivot points and hydroformed tubes.
Sounds like you reeeaaallly want to buy that VP Free. Do it.
You have two very comparable bikes here. Not sure I agree one is "better".
I don't buy that a certain bike will make you a better rider concept. Given some bikes are more specific to one type or other of riding (XC vs DH). But, in this scenario the two frames are both in the freeride class. So, the rider will be the single most important factor. Not pivot points and hydroformed tubes.
Sounds like you reeeaaallly want to buy that VP Free. Do it.
Yes you have a point there that they are both Freeride frames - this was my first concern that the Free better perform much better than the Bullit. I have read quite a few reviews & those coming from Bullits praised the Free's suspension. Ya I want a Free but the price has me stalled...gmac said:
So ride the bullit. When you have enough money saved, get the vp-free.keen said:
My 2 dinars...I've got a '03 Bullit and have ridden a VP Free, plus I also have a '05 Mono V-10...For me, the Bullit pedals better than ANY big hit bike I have ever ridden, regardless of shock set up on the other bikes (e.g. Stinkys, Big Hits, Free's, Session, Uzi, Faith, etc...). Obviously, a single pivot relies heavily on a platform shock to reduce pedal bob in the granny during steep climbs, but overall, my Bullit feels like it can out accelerate any of the aformentioned long travel rigs (it'd also demolish my V-10 in a sprint, no matter how you had the 10 set up)...That said, it does have pedal feed back, and is not the ideal DH rig on rocky, tech terrain...It's also been almost maintenance free, where other multi-pivot designs seem to suffer through almost yearly pivot/bushing rebuilds or replacements (especially if you ride the p!ss out of it in crappy conditions)...I replaced my worn out 5th with a slightly longer I2I Fox DHX 5.0, and it's been a major improvement IMO (i.e. still accelerates like a XC bike, but now has a lively pop on jumps) and run a '05 66RC up front...So it's way tall, but way slack as well (feels slacker than my 10 with a Shiver up front) - in short: I love the way bike feels when I throw a leg over it...Btw, I also have Fun Bolts in the rear, so it's relatively stiff considering there's no swing link...
So my belaboured point is that if you need a rig for DH racing and freeriding, I'd say get the VP-Free...But, if you spend most of your time freeriding and casual DH'ing, just throw on the floater and save the cash for an extravagant trip to Whistler/BC or maybe New Zealand
So my belaboured point is that if you need a rig for DH racing and freeriding, I'd say get the VP-Free...But, if you spend most of your time freeriding and casual DH'ing, just throw on the floater and save the cash for an extravagant trip to Whistler/BC or maybe New Zealand
jackalope said:My 2 dinars...I've got a '03 Bullit and have ridden a VP Free, plus I also have a '05 Mono V-10...For me, the Bullit pedals better than ANY big hit bike I have ever ridden, regardless of shock set up on the other bikes (e.g. Stinkys, Big Hits, Free's, Session, Uzi, Faith, etc...). Obviously, a single pivot relies heavily on a platform shock to reduce pedal bob in the granny during steep climbs, but overall, my Bullit feels like it can out accelerate any of the aformentioned long travel rigs (it'd also demolish my V-10 in a sprint, no matter how you had the 10 set up)...That said, it does have pedal feed back, and is not the ideal DH rig on rocky, tech terrain...It's also been almost maintenance free, where other multi-pivot designs seem to suffer through almost yearly pivot/bushing rebuilds or replacements (especially if you ride the p!ss out of it in crappy conditions)...I replaced my worn out 5th with a slightly longer I2I Fox DHX 5.0, and it's been a major improvement IMO (i.e. still accelerates like a XC bike, but now has a lively pop on jumps) and run a '05 66RC up front...So it's way tall, but way slack as well (feels slacker than my 10 with a Shiver up front) - in short: I love the way bike feels when I throw a leg over it...Btw, I also have Fun Bolts in the rear, so it's relatively stiff considering there's no swing link...
So my belaboured point is that if you need a rig for DH racing and freeriding, I'd say get the VP-Free...But, if you spend most of your time freeriding and casual DH'ing, just throw on the floater and save the cash for an extravagant trip to Whistler/BC or maybe New Zealand
Thanx for the comparison. I really plan to use the bike on rocky technical terrain, I am not much of a freerider. A V 10 would be right up my alley except @ 6'4" I found them too small. I just did a trail ride , on my Bullit, that went from a heavy rock garden to a flowing singletrack w/ small drops & jumps. I was miserable thru the rock garden but on the singletrack the bike really shines. I guess a V 10 would plow rock gardens but get really dull on small jumps / singletrack - Maybe the Free is a compromise ?
^^
Yeah, if you hit a bunch of rocky shuttle runs, I think the Free will be worth the price of admission...Regardless, it's a nice 'problem' to have...
And sh!t, you got me thinking about a Free now...Damn you...
Yeah, if you hit a bunch of rocky shuttle runs, I think the Free will be worth the price of admission...Regardless, it's a nice 'problem' to have...
And sh!t, you got me thinking about a Free now...Damn you...
u can definitely tell an enormous difference even by just sitting on the two bikes. there is a huge difference b/w the 2 bikes. free all the way dude.
ok just came back from a ride on the free, it can pedal over anything!!! danm and it doesn't get hooked on each bump and dlow you down much. the bullit would defanetly (sp?) skip like a ht when pedaled over bumps. but i got to agree that otherwise it does accelerate very well, but then again, that depends on what size chain ring you use. with a 44t ring it would as neutral as you can get. i guess the only advantage that the bullit has is that its lighter and you can play around with the geo.
about the bb height, mine is a 14.75in with a fox 40 at 7in. the HA is about 66/67 degrees. on the ride today,the steep HA didn't bother me at all. i still woudn't mind a 2.5 in stroke shox, coz i would like to get away with the least amount of travel i can.
about the bb height, mine is a 14.75in with a fox 40 at 7in. the HA is about 66/67 degrees. on the ride today,the steep HA didn't bother me at all. i still woudn't mind a 2.5 in stroke shox, coz i would like to get away with the least amount of travel i can.
Last season @ Northstar I ran a Shiver DC and a 7.8" 5th (6" travel) it had a 14.5" BB height & a 65* HA. Now that I have it setup in trail mode it has an 05' 150mm Z1, same rear shock w/ the shuttle forward for a 13.5" BB and the same 65* HA - takes a dozen or so rides to get use to a slack angle for trail riding but with the low BB it handles great.gmac said:
{QUOTE} ok just came back from a ride on the free, it can pedal over anything!!! danm and it doesn't get hooked on each bump and dlow you down much. the bullit would defanetly (sp?) skip like a ht when pedaled over bumps. but i got to agree that otherwise it does accelerate very well, but then again, that depends on what size chain ring you use. with a 44t ring it would as neutral as you can get. i guess the only advantage that the bullit has is that its lighter and you can play around with the geo.
about the bb height, mine is a 14.75in with a fox 40 at 7in. the HA is about 66/67 degrees. on the ride today,the steep HA didn't bother me at all. i still woudn't mind a 2.5 in stroke shox, coz i would like to get away with the least amount of travel i can
Who cares how it pedals (JK) How does it handle going downhill. I'll be buying a Free for primarily shuttled DH. I don't doubt the Free pedals great, that is what concerns me a little about using it for DH. So many reviews focus on its pedalling ability, I want to hear about its ability to eat rock garden's and such.
No VP free experience at all. But i can chimein on some BULLIT & V10 -DH9 comparison.
Bike: 04 Bullit /24" rear wheel /Monster-T
Testing ground: Windrock,TN -DH trails.
It rode pretty darn slow & heavy,got hung up & didn't roll over anything great,slow,slow pedeler.But it was fun in sections where it was slow & steep.It's a slow speed North Shore trails setup.Had a slack HA but not as much as the V10.
-Next-
2003 V10 -66RC
Windrock,TN on DH trails.
Slack as hell HA & sprinted like no other bike with this much travel.Bombed any trail it was kinda scary.Jumps were kinda boring with it because it's made to rock n roll DH fast.Sucked on tight trails cause of slack as hell HA.At least 64* or less.Overall it's not a freeride bike just DH race !
-next-
YETI DH9
Windrock,TN on DH trails.
This bike is the best all-around ripper.It rolled over rock gardens like a had done 100 runs,but it was just my first run with it..If i had had health insurance & wantd to i could have really gone nuts with this bike. HA was spot on,slack, but not too steep with a 7" BOXXER,26" wheels of course.BB was not too low.Overall a great ripper.Rear suspension ate it up.It has an eccentric on lower shock mount toadj. HA & progressiveness of shock.It's a shame YETI stopped making them.
What's up with Santa Cruz stopping the Bullit & YETI stopping the DH9.Both were & still are great rippers..They replace the DH9 with something that's even MORE expensive & stop the almighty BULLIT.What is this world is coming too !!
.02
Bike: 04 Bullit /24" rear wheel /Monster-T
Testing ground: Windrock,TN -DH trails.
It rode pretty darn slow & heavy,got hung up & didn't roll over anything great,slow,slow pedeler.But it was fun in sections where it was slow & steep.It's a slow speed North Shore trails setup.Had a slack HA but not as much as the V10.
-Next-
2003 V10 -66RC
Windrock,TN on DH trails.
Slack as hell HA & sprinted like no other bike with this much travel.Bombed any trail it was kinda scary.Jumps were kinda boring with it because it's made to rock n roll DH fast.Sucked on tight trails cause of slack as hell HA.At least 64* or less.Overall it's not a freeride bike just DH race !
-next-
YETI DH9
Windrock,TN on DH trails.
This bike is the best all-around ripper.It rolled over rock gardens like a had done 100 runs,but it was just my first run with it..If i had had health insurance & wantd to i could have really gone nuts with this bike. HA was spot on,slack, but not too steep with a 7" BOXXER,26" wheels of course.BB was not too low.Overall a great ripper.Rear suspension ate it up.It has an eccentric on lower shock mount toadj. HA & progressiveness of shock.It's a shame YETI stopped making them.
What's up with Santa Cruz stopping the Bullit & YETI stopping the DH9.Both were & still are great rippers..They replace the DH9 with something that's even MORE expensive & stop the almighty BULLIT.What is this world is coming too !!
.02
One more thing to keep in mind is that the Free will have considerably higher upkeep costs and potentially more down time. The VPP setup is notorious for chewing through bearings -they really don't like side loads at all. I ride with a guy who has a fully pimped Blur and he goes through them like mad. He does not even ride all that abusively.
If it was me, I'd hang on to the Bullit and see what shows up in the fall (2007 model) offerings. I've been hearing rumors of some major things coming up for a few different companies.
If it was me, I'd hang on to the Bullit and see what shows up in the fall (2007 model) offerings. I've been hearing rumors of some major things coming up for a few different companies.
Holy old thread batman!!rigidhack said:
It is true that the free will need some bearings replaced just about every season if it's ridden hard, especially in sloppy conditions and/or lots of power washing. I replace the bearings on my lower link every season but the uppers are still the originals and they are fine. Bearing replacement is something you need to deal with on any linkage bike. I do the work myself so it's not expensive, and it only takes a couple hours so it's not really a big deal.
I find that some people overstate the maintenance requirements on linkage bikes. They are usually the same people that think maintaining a fork is too much burden as well.
I had a XL bullit and now ride a L Vpfree with 40's and DHX coil. If shuttles are your thing go for the Free as it definately is an improvement over the bullit on the steeps and on chunky trails. I use mine as a DH bike and for some trail riding. If you had an emphasis on trail riding I would say to keep the Bullit as they are great trail bikes but the free is far better for DH, imo.
I'm 6'4 and the L fits me perfectly for DH but is a little tight for lots of pedalling.
I'm 6'4 and the L fits me perfectly for DH but is a little tight for lots of pedalling.
I hear a lot about VPP bearing replacment, maybe more so than other 4 bar set-ups. With any multi linkage I imagine a lot has to do with washing and maintenance. I started the thread and just now plan to buy the Free. I will probably re-grease the bearings before I build. Seems like most bearings come from the factory w/ a light viscosity grease. I may try a high temp / load wheel bearing grease.