We can all now froth at the mouth about how 70 cents on the dollar of a mans wage of nothing is still nothing.
I also notice how there's no field for "negative cash flow" which I feel is overlooked and relevant.
Let's stir some shit up. Survey about gender pay gap in mountain biking.
- Thread starter Kanye West
- Start date
We can all now froth at the mouth about how 70 cents on the dollar of a mans wage of nothing is still nothing.
I also notice how there's no field for "negative cash flow" which I feel is overlooked and relevant.
Interesting article, a few takeaways I had:
1. Gender pay gap illustrated clearly here
2. The top podium contenders (can) make real money, but the pack fill does not.
3. Many athletes apparently don't understand how to add value or monetize the value they add.
4. Top competitors in "Red Bull" sports (ie slopestyle/DJ/Freeride) surprisingly marketable comparatively.
5. It feels clear that the top earners are making money from sugar-water, car sponsors, etc.
1. Gender pay gap illustrated clearly here
2. The top podium contenders (can) make real money, but the pack fill does not.
3. Many athletes apparently don't understand how to add value or monetize the value they add.
4. Top competitors in "Red Bull" sports (ie slopestyle/DJ/Freeride) surprisingly marketable comparatively.
5. It feels clear that the top earners are making money from sugar-water, car sponsors, etc.
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Came to make this point and you fuckin beat me to it.
It's all in fanny pack ads.
TBH, I'm surprised the pay gap is that narrow. Given that athlete sponsorships are largely based on fan following, I'd have guessed the gap was more like 50% instead of 20, especially given the PB survey covers the top 40. Admittedly I only really follow DH, but the men's top 40 is a pretty solid list of known riders, the women's top "40" is only like 13 riders.
Honestly, if cyclists want any money, they do need to start demanding signature series soft goods like fanny packs. I don't think I can name a more than 5-6 rider's soft good sponsors, and soft goods are where the money is at. Get yourself a buck or two off each fanny pack, jersey, pair of socks, etc sold in your signature colorway. Does anybody even have a signature clothing line? I can think of Sam Hill's 5-10s, and......that's it.
Minnaar´s got jerseys, shorts and i believe a helmet with O´Neal.
Ben Deakin got signature clothes and parts with DMR, which just goes to show that most top athletes do not know how to cash in while they´re on top when a youtuber can have more soft goods on the market than the goat.
Heck, Maxxis even avoids putting the designer/rider´s name on the tires.
Interesting you say this. Couldn't agree more.
Regarding Maxxis, that helps place the tires at OE, as Brand X won't want to spec a tire from Brand Y's roster. No idea how that affects royalties on the tire for the developer (ie Minaar & Assegai)
If Kovarik did a rum it would be a violation of Chemical Warfare treaties.
I remember reading or hearing that as a result of COVID, a few companies have chosen to employ the riders to do other roles in the company - with free time to travel and compete etc. I wonder if that will continue going forward and whether it increases the take-home pay for the athletes.
I'm pretty sure SH has some signature nukeproof cockpit components.
Deity has a few rider signature components as well.
I think one of the challenges with signature components is that it's a crowded market to begin with.
Yea but they gotta be Mazel Tough
How many pairs of pedals do you own? How often do you get new ones?
There are a ton of factors in deciding what pedals, stem, bars, etc to buy, and people don’t buy very many of them. You get one shot every 3-4 years to sell me a pair of pedals, assuming I’d even buy the Sam Hill signature pedals he gets, what $5?
Soft goods on the other hand, in 4 years I probably buy 50 T-shirts, and give two shits about anything other than being decent looking. I’d 100% buy a Sam Hill shirt, but there are none to buy, so he’ll make $0.
Soft goods are the key if you want to make money as a non “TVsport” athlete
I really thought that specialized dropped the ball with the DH kit they made for Troy when he rode for them. They made him a load of different kits one year, he was in a different one every race. They could easily have done a limited run of a few different variations and I'm sure they would have sold well, Troy is a fan favourite and their dh pants are some of the best out there (the jerseys are fine too)
A friend paid me for servicing his suspension and helping him set the bike up with specalized shorts I was like mehhhhh.
Wore them once and they instantly became my favorite. Troy who?
I had to Google these.
They sound rad.
da fuq you do with 50 shirts in 4 years? i probably haven’t even bought that many in 38 years so far?
When I was ordering new mtb shoes, my kid picked out the Sam Pilgrim signature color Wildcat shoe from Ride Concept. Is SP getting kicked back out of that sale?
Sorry, Brosnan.
I have 3 pairs of the Demo shorts, they are great, though they could taper a bit more at the bottom. Might get the wife to do a quick sewing job on one pair and see what I can achieve there. They are light, stretchy, vented and long. The pants are just as good if not better, publishing not great for trail riding in the warm but easily cool enough to trail ride in the cooler temps before it gets cold and wet enough for waterproofs.
Actually, one of the best bits about them is the pockets, you can genuinely have a phone or musli bar or something in there and they don't bounce around. I have never owned any other biking shorts that I can handle having something in the pocket without it annoying me before these.
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Not racing anymore of course, but Peaty has grips (for awhile now), beer, some kind of stake in Royal, and now all sorts of products like sealant, air valves and cleaners. Which is why he should buy me a Stella or 10 at Snowshoe in a few months.
I like how the JR boys at 14-16 would beat any of the ladies. We saw this in soccer when the High School team from Texas beat the US Women's Team. Why would I want to watch someone that is trying to play Killing Fields horribly when Hendrix is next door on 8 hits of ACID making peoples faces melt off......
There are what 10-14 women now racing DH and outside of the top 3, it falls off drastically. I shot Hangtown for years. One Girl was fast and she left MOTO because it didn't pay. Wanna know how fast? She lapped 3rd and almost 2nd place by the end of the 45-minute moto. Here lap time was around the bottom 5 of the men if I recall.
The GOAT (women's) vs The GOAT (men's) arguably......
There are what 10-14 women now racing DH and outside of the top 3, it falls off drastically. I shot Hangtown for years. One Girl was fast and she left MOTO because it didn't pay. Wanna know how fast? She lapped 3rd and almost 2nd place by the end of the 45-minute moto. Here lap time was around the bottom 5 of the men if I recall.
The GOAT (women's) vs The GOAT (men's) arguably......
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yea, he started Royal ages ago, i think he was one of the founders and is still co-owner, which I think was a smart move. Just having a whole company rather than a signature line.
And yes, Peaty's products.
I remember seeing pics a while ago of flats of beer that had been made for each of the Syndicate racers. Did they sell that to fans? If they didn't, they could have made a killing.
right? i still have shirts from when i was in college.
I certainly get your point that the womens field isn't nearly as deep as the bros, although I would offer that any one of 5 ladies (Holl, Cabirou, Nicole, Hoffman & Seagraves) could compete for a win rather than just 3. Also not sure what results from 20+ years ago really illustrates (we already knew dudes are faster than chicks), but I do have questions about the Aug 15, 1999 race that took the Alien over 7 minutes to get down (flat, crash or was it really that long?)
it's weird, because signature components in BMX are almost the norm.
i wonder if its also related to how team replica kits aren't popular in the US
meanwhile, bike companies are recording record growth. look at every single one of these headlines. every. single. one.
Earnings/Financial Reports
www.bicycleretailer.com
Thats probably fit for its own thread. Didn't one of those companies who reported great earnings, also lay off a good portion of their office work force?
Oh wait, we already have a whats wrong with the industry thread.
it's absolutely worth discussing in relation to athlete pay, especially in light of just how many racers are essentially paid nothing.
I'm in no way defending any bike company not paying someone, but there has to be an argument from the other side. There were 121 males who responded to that survey.
Being real and honest, how many of those 121 bring any actual value to who is stamped on their jersey? Value as in hey you should be paid this amount of dollars - not just in free product, discounts etc etc. Like the survey said, the reported income also does not include what a sponsor might be covering with costs like travel, accommodations, food etc etc.
While very skilled, fast and great people, some of these 121 respondents are more than likely just glorified brand ambassadors*. Do they actually expect to get paid as if they are an employee of that sponsor?
That said, if you're good enough to get on the Red Bull broadcast, yeah you should most likely be in a position to be compensated by whoever you are representing.
*This is a whole other thing to. How about all the brand ambassadors floating around out there? They are out there representing brands and doing work, almost always just for a free tshirt and a discount on a bike. That I don't get. Why do work for some of these large companies for essentially nothing? Isn't that what their sales reps are for?
per PB:
"Bear in mind we have removed juniors from this part of the survey and we also only surveyed the top 40 ranked riders from the past two years in each discipline. "
These are the top athletes in their respective MTB disciplines (XC, DH, Enduro, Slopestyle). These are not brand ambassadors. over 20% of the top riders across the primary MTB disciplines are collecting no salary whatsoever.
also from the article:
"This means that it's almost guaranteed that some of the riders you see on a broadcast of an event aren't earning a penny for being there."
this is true, but do you honestly think it's sustainable for racers to earn no salary for an endeavor that requires a significant time commitment in order to perform at the level they do?
Why do they race if they earn nothing? They must be doing it for a reason. Also, personally, if I wasn't being compensated then I would not represent that brand. No one should be a free walking billboard.
The other interesting thing is the question asking if mountain biking is your sole income; only 49% reported it as their sole income. So it should be safe to assume that most of these racers have other jobs, no?
Annika Langvad for example (I believe its her), she was near the top of womens xc racing, but she is also a dentist. Could situations like that be skewing the results?
So here is the thing. If an athlete does not:
(A) understand
(B) measure
(C) track
(D) leverage
Their value-add to a brand, then they just are not going to get paid more. If their core role
Is racing (as 50% state), the sole value to brands that sponsor these teams is winning at the highest level.
Nobody cares about the minor league baseball team that won the championship, and their players probably don’t make a living wage either.
This is why YouTube / IG folks can make money. Traffic is paid for, by all brands, in many ways. So if the athlete drives traffic, it’s easy to track and easy to monetize via existing benchmarks. This is why the Freeride ambassadors make good money. They are strong on social and drive traffic to DTC brands.
This is also why the ex-racers doing skills camps are just as marketable (if not more/net) to a brand than an active elite racer ... see Kirt Vories.
The value-add of a 2 second snipet on a web-only RB event, for a brand logo on a pack fill racer is (at best) equivalent to the $50k in product and $50k in travel the brand put into having the racer there.
I personally see racing kind of like going to college. It take investment to get the most out of it. But If you have good results, and form strong relationships with the right folks, you can easily parlay that into a nice career working for your sponsor brand long term, have enough name-recognition to do camps, and generally living a nice and pretty easy life getting paid to ride your bike and hang out with cool people for as long as you wish.
But again, athletes can and should earn more while at the top of their game. The problem is actually in their representation. They need agents to drive home (a) (b) (c) (d) above, opposed to just signing with a team managed by the brand, who views the entire team as a cost-center to be managed down.
Entitlement among people with the misconception that it's in Brand X's best interest to pay them to ride their bikes for a living definitely belongs in the "What's Wrong With The Industry" thread.