Money into old frame?

yopaulie · Feb 24, 2011

Keep it and give her some tlc....save your cash for lift tickets, race fee's, etc...

stumpjump · Feb 24, 2011

As a long time Sunday rider, I reccommend replacing the dhx3 with something better, perhaps a dhx5 or a vivid. I'd start there. The majority of your improvements sound good im some arent worth the difference you will spend on them. Just my opinion but after doing similar to what you are planning, I didn't really feel that I got the bang that I wanted for the money I spent.

norbar · Feb 24, 2011

Yup. Sunday is a very good frame with a properly tuned shock and the angleset should only help. It's weight is pretty reasonable so I say it's the parts. For cranks I'd go rf over e13 if you are weight conscious. 823s + hopes + tubeless setup any way you want is the way to go imho.

As for stem - if you want to save money look up dartmoor bikes rage stem. I've been testing their DM stem protos for quite some time and they hold up very well. Unless something horrible happened between my proto and production version (very minor changes so I doubt it) it should take abuse well and it's reasonably light at ~150g.

Also - have you thought about anodising the frame istead of the powdercoat?

Sandwich · Feb 24, 2011

Yo dude...
I just went through this earlier this year, though weight wasn't my main motivator, I just like to try out new ****.

You might have a hard time losing too much weight, as you're already running a ti spring and none of your parts are ridiculously heavy...but a new saddle will help, and ditching the MTX wheels for something a little more racey, like hopes on 721s or 729s will probably ditch some rotating mass. The cranks might help too, head for an Atlas FR, or get stupid with some ghetto rigged XT. I would definitely run the direct mount stem...they work so well and it's one less part to worry about aligning.

As far as the frame goes...you might be surprised once you take it apart. I'm in the process of hand-stripping my Sunday (well using chemicals rather than beadblasting) and when it was whole it felt smooth, but once I started taking it apart, I noticed how bad the bearings were. I'm expecting a completely different beast this season as the rear end will actually work. I don't have the cash to have the shock pushed, but that's another story....anyways, you may want to reconsider anodizing, as another fella stripped his bike and lost 250g worth of powder...that's half a pound. Plus, when I stripped mine I found bondo to fill low spots on the frame. I imagine losing those spots will also save some weight. I'm not saying you should go ugly and strip your bike entirely, but if weight is a concern, re-powdering will not help.

Also, I couldn't find a bike that's a better deal, lighter, or better supported than the Sunday....you can get replacement parts for anything from several sources, and you can't say that about rotecs, Evils, or anything else...and from what I understand, the brands that do have replacement parts (intense) are either expensive or reluctant to hand them out....so here's a bike that's strong, stiff, among the lightest (the factory was the lightest of the bunch IIRC), well supported, and adjustable via the 1.5 HT...you pushed your shock once already, so you mostly canceled out the negative traits of the suspension (fallingish rate)...

I say keep it and throw some cash at it.

nowlan · Feb 24, 2011

Id say do what Stump Jump said, swap out or clean out and repack all your bearings, get new DU busings. Strip the frame while the bearings are out and make it polishes aluminum (fun project) and get some fresh rubber and save a pile of cash and rebuild your fork, it sounds like a solid set up to me.

yd35 · Feb 24, 2011

If you love the way your current bike rides, I think you should keep it. And I think there is plenty of room to shave weight off your build. It seems like you are a Fox 40 fan, but you could easily lose a pound if you went the Boxxer WC route. I've seen some nice deals on 2010 models.

If you go the new bike route, it's tough to justify cause everything that would shave off significant weight is $$$, and there's no guarantee that you would like one of the sexy, new frames more than the Sunday. Two frames that may be worth a look though, are the Ghost Northshore and Nukeproof Scalp. They look significantly lighter than the Sunday, and they won't be outrageously priced.

MarkDH · Feb 24, 2011

If I were you I'd get the angleset first, then probably something done to the forks. Is it possible to fit newer Fox cartridges in the old ones? Maybe some new seals etc. as well. How long ago was your last service on the shock, cos I've never found a service made a huge difference on a newish shock unless it was getting gutted internally at the same time? Finally, lighter wheels would be next on the list. I wouldn't bother with the rest personally.

Tomasis · Feb 24, 2011

continue to ride sunday

I bought recently a new refurbished 2009 Sunday, so im partial

I think about fox fork, if you like the fork, why not upgrade it to avalanche cartridge. It looks like that upgrade will come.

Go for 721/Hope/tubeless with ghetto mod. I have 823, a bit heavy, but good buy if one wants them last over a few years without worry. 721 might get dent sometimes if you ride hard. so it is a choice between them.

Tomasis · Feb 24, 2011

if you dont mind boxxer as i see from your post, boxxer plus avalanche will be sweet combo

Eastern States Cup · Feb 24, 2011

Sicklines is in the middle of a Sunday rebuild

And sandwich, you CAN get frame parts for Rotecs. I'm bringing two back to life.

zdubyadubya · Feb 24, 2011

I would say keep the Sunday, but my personal experience would say otherwise...

Think about how much you have ridden. Going into last season I had a 5-yr old frame that I was faced with the same problem. I chose to freshen it up. After putting in all the work and $$$ to get it like new, viola stress cracks appeared when I stripped it down. :rant:

Now I had NO money to buy a new frame and my current frame was bordering on disaster. Forced to ride it anyway (that or no bike at all), I rode it and broke it early that season. Ended up having to put a new frame on the CC anyways... (if I would have just bought a whole new bike to begin with I would have spent less than buying the parts and frame separately 2 months apart)

Moral of the story... if you decide to keep the Sunday, look very very closely at the frame for ANY signs of fatigue. If there are any even questionable areas, ditch it.

nelsonjm · Feb 24, 2011

I don't think you would be that crazy. You can always transfer the components onto a new bike down the road.

yd35 · Feb 24, 2011

Pegboy said:
I am watching the Nukeproof but I am not sure what the cost is and question if it will be that much lighter and if my current hubs etc. are compatible.

I did some quick research, and the Scalp frame with Vivid is 2133 and with Double Barrel it's 2560 at Chain Reaction Cycles. In the current market of crazy frame prices, I'd say that it's a good deal, but still far from cheap. Website says a large frame is 9.6lbs without shock, while Sicklines has the weight of a medium Sunday frame without shock as 8.8 pounds. I was surprised by this; I definitely thought the Scalp was at least a pound lighter.

Sandwich · Feb 24, 2011

VooDooHoo said:
Sicklines is in the middle of a Sunday rebuild

And sandwich, you CAN get frame parts for Rotecs. I'm bringing two back to life.

Fair enough, but there simply is as much AFTERMARKET support for them. Yeah, you can contact sully and he'll get you stuff, but you can just buy links and pivots from multiple sources.

Regardless, unless there's a frame you love and need to have (zerode, invisbl silencer), then I say keep it.

ncrider · Feb 24, 2011

I'm in the same boat as you. Decided to freshen up some parts, ride it this season, put the extra money towards races, and see what happens next year.

discombob · Feb 25, 2011

Same thing here... the Sunday is just such a good bike but the new frames simply look nice enough to induce upgrade-itis. What a nice dilemma to have, I suppose.

I think I'm going to ride my 2007 chocolate mint elite frame until it's dead. Only then will I really have the excuse to get something else and who knows if what I get will actually feel better or not.

Might go 7" mini-DH after this, however, as I'm a light rider and smooth jumpy stuff is all the rage now.

kootenaytallboy · Feb 25, 2011

I'm definitely in the same boat, although my desire to get a new frame is heavily influenced with a desire to get a longer bike (I'm 6'4").

As far as improvements to the Sunday tho, there are certainly a few that can be done to make it more modern. I am currently running -2 degree cups, and the bike flat out rips. If you look at many modern DH frames, they are 64 or 63 degrees, with good reason. Thus, that'd be one of my first recommendations. It will make your bike faster in all but the tightest of tracks. For the 80 bucks or so, its worth a shot.

Next, I'd replace the dhx 3 with an RC4. That shock is much more progressive, and DW himself has said here on RM that that shock is a great fit for the Sunday. No doubt custom tuning is a great option as well, but there are limits to the design of the dhx.

As for lighter parts, no doubt that can make a difference. My sunday is under 37 pounds. I'm running some lightweight stuff to be sure, but I haven't had any reliability issues at all, and I'm 220#. For example, I'm running Hope/flows, and have had absolutely nothing but a positive experience so far, even running them tubeless all summer at Whistler, with just one little dent on the rear. Plus, compared to my 823s, I don't cut the tubeless minions anymore.

If weight is a motivator, I'd definitely try the Boxxer WC instead of the fox 40. If it works for the likes of Hill, Peat or Minnaar, why not for you? Plus, the adjustability of the air fork is pretty convenient.

Other than fork and wheels/tires, there are some weight losses to be had in some other areas as well, but none will be felt more those.

Finally, if you replace a number of parts, you can then swap out to a new frame and swap the parts over. While it may be difficult to get top dollar for a sunday frame at this point, you're not going to lose that much more than you would for any other used frame. And that cost is going to be fairly constant whether you do so now or later.

norbar · Feb 25, 2011

kootenaytallboy said:
Next, I'd replace the dhx 3 with an RC4. That shock is much more progressive, and DW himself has said here on RM that that shock is a great fit for the Sunday. No doubt custom tuning is a great option as well, but there are limits to the design of the dhx.

Rc4 does not fit the sunday unless you seriously modify the lower link.

zdubyadubya · Feb 25, 2011

norbar said:
Rc4 does not fit the sunday unless you seriously modify the lower link.

As well as the OP already stated that his current shock is custom tuned. And ANY custom tune by PUSH will be better than a stock shock (barring possibly a CCDB). And DW's comment was about the DHX not the RC4; he said "it was almost like the DHX was designed for the sunday".

So OP; sounds like you should keep the bike!!

Sandwich · Feb 25, 2011

No, I do recall DW commenting about the RC4 as being "...designed for the sunday", but it does require machining the lower link to work.

I don't know why pegboy wants his shock re-tuned, but maybe it just needs a freshening. Finally, the CCDB never worked well in the Sunday platform, according to most people who know these things, saying that it was too "linear" and didn't work well with the sunday's very linear/falling rate. Supposedly they modified the newer shocks to allow you to tune them better for the low leverage bikes like the sunday, but I'd still probably go for the custom tune vs. the high-end vanilla shock.

EastCoaster · Feb 25, 2011

HA was 65 on it correct?
Think someone may have mentioned an AngleSet? 64 would be nice.

Oops... didn't see until just now the the OP stated that he's been riding it for so long that he didn't feel that he'd feel the need for a geo. change.

norbar · Feb 25, 2011

zdubyadubya said:
As well as the OP already stated that his current shock is custom tuned. And ANY custom tune by PUSH will be better than a stock shock (barring possibly a CCDB). And DW's comment was about the DHX not the RC4; he said "it was almost like the DHX was designed for the sunday".

So OP; sounds like you should keep the bike!!

PUSH is better not only because of their custom thingy but because of the changes they make to the dhx.

stumpjump · Feb 25, 2011

I really feel you for the OP though, its a big dilemma. I bought new sunday triangles figuring I was gonig to freshen the frame for the price of a paint job and have a spare front and rear triangle just in case. I now have two sundays minus the rocker plates and the dw link. I ended up also picking up a V-10 for really cheap and now I dont know which bike to ride this season. Sometimes I hate having so much choice.

kootenaytallboy · Feb 25, 2011

DW:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235549&highlight=rc4

"I think that you will love that bike with a 1 degree to 1.5 degree Cane Creek Angleset and an RC4. It's almost like the RC4 was made for the Sunday."

zdubyadubya · Feb 25, 2011

Sandwich said:
No, I do recall DW commenting about the RC4 as being "...designed for the sunday", but it does require machining the lower link to work.

kootenaytallboy said:
"I think that you will love that bike with a 1 degree to 1.5 degree Cane Creek Angleset and an RC4. It's almost like the RC4 was made for the Sunday."

Cool. My bad. :thumb:

kootenaytallboy · Feb 25, 2011

as for machining the lower link, ya, it must be done to fit the RC4. However, with a hacksaw and one of the below dremel tools, it was pretty damn easy. Just make sure and cycle the shock without spring to ensure the proper clearance.

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=944387&Ntt=944387&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

kootenaytallboy · Feb 25, 2011

zdubyadubya said:
Cool. My bad.

No worries! :thumb:

Sandwich · Feb 25, 2011

somewhere in the sunday thread, there is info on how to do it, but I think it's pretty much removing both braces and some of either side of the material...but post there for more info, not here.

SkullCrack · Feb 25, 2011

It's not cheap, but you could pick up one of these links from BETD and run the RC4, or even better, get the MX Tune from Push on your DHX. The new MX Tune won't fit with the stock lower link due to the new compression knob assembly Push installs as part of the MX Tune.

Sandwich · Feb 25, 2011

SkullCrack said:
It's not cheap, but you could pick up one of these links from BETD and run the RC4, or even better, get the MX Tune from Push on your DHX. The new MX Tune won't fit with the stock lower link due to the new compression knob assembly Push installs as part of the MX Tune.

nyet, the new mx tune will fit the lower link, the original one wouldn't. I've axed, and would be running one, but A) the avy is cheaper, and B) I can't afford it.

An MX tuned DHX or avy tuned 5th would probably be the premier and cheapest ways to max out shock performance on the doneday.

SkullCrack · Feb 25, 2011

Sandwich said:
nyet, the new mx tune will fit the lower link, the original one wouldn't. I've axed, and would be running one, but A) the avy is cheaper, and B) I can't afford it.

An MX tuned DHX or avy tuned 5th would probably be the premier and cheapest ways to max out shock performance on the doneday.

My friend ordered the new MX Tune for his DHX. The compression knobs hit the link brace when the shock was installed. Push took care of him so he wasn't stuck with a shock that wouldn't work.

Sandwich · Feb 25, 2011

No sh.t!? There's two posts on RM where the user PUSH says a) the original MX tune won't fit a sunday, and a second where it says B) the new one will. Sorry to stand corrected, I apologize!

ucsbMTBmember · Feb 25, 2011

SkullCrack said:
It's not cheap, but you could pick up one of these links from BETD and run the RC4, or even better, get the MX Tune from Push on your DHX. The new MX Tune won't fit with the stock lower link due to the new compression knob assembly Push installs as part of the MX Tune.

$242 for that link? god damn. if i woulda known there was a market for these things i would be making them in the garage and paying for school

Tomasis · Feb 26, 2011

Sandwich said:
nyet, the new mx tune will fit the lower link, the original one wouldn't. I've axed, and would be running one, but A) the avy is cheaper, and B) I can't afford it.

An MX tuned DHX or avy tuned 5th would probably be the premier and cheapest ways to max out shock performance on the doneday.

how about rc4 as dave recommends?

vivid shock wouldn't be bad either?

Money into old frame?

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