[MTB_Rob_NC]

This is great stuff Instigator - keep the review going for a bit more if you can.

I agree this is really good stuff. I am going to add a little as I am a Heckler owner.

Shocks- When I first got my bike I had the 5th Air, it was one of the first run. Due to bushing issues I switch to a 5th Coil. Personally I think the bike is better with the coil. You can adjust rebound and compression that much more and it feels a bit more bottomless. Also after I blew the shock (over a year of riding) I replaced the stock 300lb spring with a 450. This actually made the bike MORE sublte. I was able to reduce the air pressure and tune the rebound that much more. (I am 185-195lbs).

Stem length - When I first got the bike I was trying to get close to the geometry of my GF Sugar +, so I went with a long 120mm stem. The bike handled tight single track very well, and climbed nicely. Remember I live in FL where it is flat (or steep climbs) but I did travel with the bike to NC where I encountered what would be LONG climbs for me. With the 120mm stem I never felt the front end wandering or wanting to come up. I also never reduced the travel on my talas. However after a while I switched to a 90mm stem so I would feel more comfortable dropping and jumping (the little that I do). I was actually surprised at the bikes handling. Single track riding was not affected much and the slightly more upright position was a little more comfortable. When I returned to NC to do the same climbs I did notice the front end wandering a bit and wanting to come up a little. If I lived where there was more climbing I would probably compromise with like a 100 or 110mm stem.

I hope this ends up being helpful to anyone considering this bike, or setting up a trail bike of their own

 

[jacksonpt]

I like the comments about the cockpit and top tube lengths etc. etc. It makes me wonder if a longer tt frame (say like 23" or slightly longer) might be the ticket for me for a long 3 to 4 hour plus ride type trail bike.

FWIW... I've done a couple 3+ hours rides on my 575 without thinking twice. If I get the saddle too high, my lower back fatigues a bit... but aside from that... the bike is as comfy as my favorite recliner.

 

[MMcG]

Rob - how tall are you and what size Heckler frame did you go with?

 

[golgiaparatus]

yeah instigator, this is a solid thread. good work.

 

[Instigator]

Thanks for the support guys. I wasn't sure if anyone was really interested still.
I am planning on putting the longer stem on the heckler today and hitting about half the trails I rode yesterday. After that I am (hopefully) Meeting Stuntmatty for a lunch time urban thrashing on the single speed. which I just happen to have a pic of

 

[MMcG]

Instigator - please do keep the thread going and more information you can share about the cockpits of the two bikes and how they affect your riding comfort level would be really appreciated by me!

Thanks.

And oh yeah, that Cowan is beautiful! Orange!!!

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Rob - how tall are you and what size Heckler frame did you go with?

5'9.5, with a 31" inseam and I ride a large Heckler frame

 

[pixelninja]

Yeah, keep this up. With the lose of my Ells, I'll be in the market for a new bike as soon as the insurance check arrives. Right now, the 575 is the bike I'm most interested in. Same weight (maybe a tad less) as my Isis, 1.75" more travel and still rides like a xc machine? Sounds too good to be true.

So both bikes are medium? How tall are you? I'm exactly 6', and Yeti's site lists me at a large...barely. I've read that Yeti's run a bit large, but the geometry specs on their site look very similar to my Isis. I've spent all of 5 minutes on a large Kokopelli and it did seem big, but that was back when I was still riding my old '94 Kona hardtail. What are your thoughts on sizing?

 

[Jesus]

5'9.5, with a 31" inseam and I ride a large Heckler frame

Whoa, you like your bikes long!

I am 5' 11" and I rode a medium. Actually, all my bikes were medium except my Evil, and my M1 (small).

I tried a large Bullit, and SLX, but they were much to big for me.

 

[jacksonpt]

I'm exactly 6', and Yeti's site lists me at a large...barely. I've read that Yeti's run a bit large, but the geometry specs on their site look very similar to my Isis. I've spent all of 5 minutes on a large Kokopelli and it did seem big, but that was back when I was still riding my old '94 Kona hardtail. What are your thoughts on sizing?

I'm 5-8 and my 575 fits me great (it's a medium). It took a bit of getting used to because I was accustomed to being more stretched out over a tratidional XC frame. I would tend to think that a medium would be a bit small for you (you'd feel very cramped), but depending on how you are built, a long stem could make it work. Though I would tend to think a large would be better for you.

 

[MMcG]

I'm 5-8 and my 575 fits me great (it's a medium). It took a bit of getting used to because I was accustomed to being more stretched out over a tratidional XC frame. I would tend to think that a medium would be a bit small for you (you'd feel very cramped), but depending on how you are built, a long stem could make it work. Though I would tend to think a large would be better for you.

Better for who? Pixelninja? OR Jesus?

 

[Instigator]

Pixelninja,
I tend to like a bit on the small side, but the 575 actually feels a bit long for me. I am looking forward to swapping stems and trying the 575 with a shorter stem, along with trying the heckler with a longer stem. On both bikes I plan on readjusting the seats to the correct position(plum line from base of kneecap to pedal spindle). I will continue to ride and post comments on what I have found.

Todays ride is a bust. When I went downstairs to swap out the stems, I ended up playing around with some electrical tape..............I am such a goofball at times

 

[jacksonpt]

Better for who? Pixelninja? OR Jesus?

oh, sorry... jesus snuck in a reply while I was typing mine. My reply was to PN's post.

 

[MMcG]

OH My - what did you do to that Cowan?

I anxiously await your review of the Yeti with the shorter stem and the Heckler with the longer stem, and the proper saddle position! Keep it going Instigator.

 

[jacksonpt]

OH My - what did you do to that Cowan?

I anxiously await your review of the Yeti with the shorter stem and the Heckler with the longer stem, and the proper saddle position! Keep it going Instigator.

The heck with that... I wanna hear if the Kona gains any lateral stiffness with the grips over the chainstays and the electrical tape re-enforcements.

 

[MMcG]

The heck with that... I wanna hear if the Kona gains any lateral stiffness with the grips over the chainstays and the electrical tape re-enforcements.

Of course that electrical tape will make it fly straighter over dirt jumps and keep the front end from dippign down to low too fast on hucks.

 

[Full Trucker]

...I'm exactly 6', and Yeti's site lists me at a large...barely. I've read that Yeti's run a bit large, but the geometry specs on their site look very similar to my Isis. I've spent all of 5 minutes on a large Kokopelli and it did seem big, but that was back when I was still riding my old '94 Kona hardtail. What are your thoughts on sizing?

I'm 6'1" and I'm going with the large 575, on it's way in a couple weeks. I just sold my large ASR, which was pretty much the right size. All Medium Yeti trailbikes I've ridden felt small and cramped to me, Even with longer stems. For me it was how high the seatpost had to be compared to the bar height, which never felt good to me. I prefer a more upright riding position anyway. If you REALLY want a kick in the pants, I should let you ride the medium AS-X I'm demoing right now... 7" rear with 6+" in the front thanks to a single-crown Sherman... burly enough to make ya crap yer pants on descents, but still rideable to the top of the hill...

 

[Instigator]

The heck with that... I wanna hear if the Kona gains any lateral stiffness with the grips over the chainstays and the electrical tape re-enforcements.

Actually the chainstays have a cut up old trials tire rapped around them. Matty proved that hopping up onto concrete walls from an angle scratches the heck out of the stays
The electrical tape is black and absorbs the heat to warm up the aluminum and makes it flex a little more for a softer ride

Anyway, I had a good ride with matty and when I got home I swapped both the stems around. I should head out first thing tomorrow morning and be doing the same test loop as before. Since it is friday I may stay up and ride both bikes on the loop tomorrow. That with a lunch time ride would give me at least 4 hours on the bikes tomorrow

On a side note, I will be making new shock mount bushing tonight at work so I can put the fox float RL shock on the Yeti. This is an air shock that doesn't have propedal, so it should be interesting to see how much the bike bobs compared to the 5th air.

Off to bed, see you all tomorrow!

 

[Tame Ape]

The real question is how does the Weyless 5 inch/$400 offering compete against these $1000+ bikes!

 

[MMcG]

The real question is how does the Weyless 5 inch/$400 offering compete against these $1000+ bikes!

 

[Jesus]

The real question is how does the Weyless 5 inch/$400 offering compete against these $1000+ bikes!

Good point.

 

[Instigator]

Day 5 folks!

Today was the stem switching day....and.........

I rode the heckler first with the longer 100mm stem. WOW! I climbed a hill that I have been trying to climb all week. The cockpit was much more roomy(sp?) The steering was quicker with the longer stem, which made tight turns better and when I was going fast down a few hills it still felt stable and not twitchy. The stem made it a little harder to bunnyhop over some logs. My feet would actually come off the pedals when the back tire was coming over the log. That was un-nerving and I have never had that problem before.

Overall I found the heckler to be a great trail bike with tendances to jump and play. It felt a little slower on the climbs, but with the longer stem climbed very well. Still more pedal feedback in granny than the yeti.

The yeti with the shorter stem felt even more fun. The steering slowed a little bit and it made cornering feel more stable. Climbing was hampered by the tightened up cockpit. I could not clean the climb I did earlier in the day on the heckler. As for the fox air shock without propedal.......I remember how pedal bob feels Standing up and pedaling would use at least 2 inches of travel, I think you could get sea sick on that bike! Sitting with a good spin was not to bad, but try and hammer some and there was no question that the back end was moving.

I may keep the yeti like this for a few days. I don't mind suffering on the climbs(since I suck at climbing anyway) because the bike felt really good otherwise. I would like to find out what the suspension is designed for(as in falling rate or rising rate). What ever the case it is still super comfortable sitting and pedaling thru all kinds of stuff. The pivot placement also makes pedal feedback almost unnoticed in the granny as well as the middle ring.

Again I have found the yeti to be more comfortable as far as suspension feel. This bike will remain in my stable for quite some time.


If someone is looking for a great full suspension mountain bike that is just a pleasure to ride fast or slow, than I recommend the Yeti 575. If you want a great riding trail bike that could also be used for some more aggressive riding (freeride/light DH) the Heckler would probably be a better choice.

Any questions? Any thoughts? Any good or bad comments?
I would like to hear what people think about this review.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Any thoughts? Any good or bad comments?
I would like to hear what people think about this review.

Excellent job. It also reaffirms my decision to get the Heckler (even though the 575 wasn't out when I got mine)

 

[MMcG]

Instigator thanks for the review - this thread kicked ass. So overall an SPV shock is the way to go on a 575 correct? I see that the new Fox RP3 is an option on the 575s - that could be a sweet shock for that bike because it allows you three different SPV type settings with just a flick of a dial I think.

I like your climbing comparisons - I'm still a big granny gear climber so it seems from your review the Yeti is a little bit better in that regard.

 

[Instigator]

Instigator thanks for the review - this thread kicked ass. So overall an SPV shock is the way to go on a 575 correct? I see that the new Fox RP3 is an option on the 575s - that could be a sweet shock for that bike because it allows you three different SPV type settings with just a flick of a dial I think.

I like your climbing comparisons - I'm still a big granny gear climber so it seems from your review the Yeti is a little bit better in that regard.

I actually climbed a steeper trail on the heckler, but the yeti always felt lighter and easier to pedal up just about any hill.

As for the shock choices, SPV is an automatic yes on the yeti. It is hard to describe how the suspension goes through its travel. You sit on the yeti and bounce up and down a little bit and it settles into a set point, sag. When riding over bumps of any sort it just moves so easily. I can only descibe it as have just bearly enough air to not blow through all the travel. You feel like your literally just floating down the trail. Even with all the smooth light movement I can't recall ever bottoming out the shock. You need to take one on a test ride to true understand how nice a ride it is.

 

[dlb]

This has been a great post to follow Instigator, a freind of mine is thinking about a Heckler. I have a small 575 currently setup as a trailbike, Pike fork Hope M4 mono brakes and riser bars with a short stem. I have also recently rode a 5 Spot so reading about a Heckler comparison really interests me.
Keep it going!

 

[T-Blazer]

just a note to all , the 05 yeti 575 are coming with the fox rp3 rear shock

 

[T-Blazer]

as a dealer who truely believes in the product he represents , i thank instigater for his dedication to this thread . awesome job bro !!!!

 

[Instigator]

as a dealer who truely believes in the product he represents , i thank instigater for his dedication to this thread . awesome job bro !!!!

Jeez T-blazer if you really liked me you would have spelled my name correct

On a more serious note, I wanted people that are interested in a solid trailbike to know what some of the differences are in a couple of them. I have always praised the 575's ride, and it feels good to back up what I thought of the bike in the past with comparing it to another frame in the same class. Besides all that, I have to do my best to support the best bike shop in upstate NY :love:

 

[dlb]

At demo days at IB Yeti and Fox coupled up in the same booth, most of the 575's were sporting Fox 36 forks, I bet thats an awsome ride! I should have tried one to check out the new fork, just to many bikes. Anyhoo, I did ask someone who was riding one and he loved the ride. Its amazing how this frame will use its travel yet on big hits it doesnt bottom out!

 

[genpowell71]

Instigator, I have a guy that is interested in trading a medium Heckler for my large Tracer. I know the bikes are as different as night and day, but Seeing as how your close to my height, I wanted to ask you how your 5'11 frame fit onto a medium Heckler?

 

[Instigator]

Instigator, I have a guy that is interested in trading a medium Heckler for my large Tracer. I know the bikes are as different as night and day, but Seeing as how your close to my height, I wanted to ask you how your 5'11 frame fit onto a medium Heckler?

The medium Heckler, with a 100mm x 5 degree stem fits me perfect for XC type rides. I have a 32" inseam and to get proper leg extension the seat post is exposed out of the frame a normal amount, about 8.5" (215mm of a 350mm post).

 

[jeremy155rr]

which rear shock for a more xc pedaling feel on the yeti? (sorry my lingo sucks and i didn't wanna read all that stuff)

 

[jacksonpt]

Nice job Instigator The more I ride my 575, the more I like it.

 

[Instigator]

which rear shock for a more xc pedaling feel on the yeti? (sorry my lingo sucks and i didn't wanna read all that stuff)

The only shocks that would come on the 575 are platform shocks and I am sure that they would work very well. T-blazer said that all the 575's will be coming with the new Fox Float RP-3, so that would be the shock of choice.


UPDATE: I rode with the rest of the Jackalopes yesterday(which was great in itself) and had a solid XC ride on good technical trails. Even with the old fox shock on the back it was an amazingly great time. The bike handled superbly on everything. :love: :love: :love:


edit: that first little bit of babble from me......I just woke up

 

[dlb]

which rear shock for a more xc pedaling feel on the yeti? (sorry my lingo sucks and i didn't wanna read all that stuff)

If you want a pedaling platform for lots of XC riding the 5th Element might be better, for a plush coil shock ride the RP3 will suit you better.

 

[Mackie]

I see that the new Fox RP3 is an option on the 575s - that could be a sweet shock for that bike because it allows you three different SPV type settings with just a flick of a dial I think.

Mark - RP3, and you were right about the Orange for 05.
I think that we are looking at your next bike here.....

 

[MMcG]

Mackie - I saw that last night - not sure if I'm diggin that orange now that I see it - but it is just a photo.

Did you see the new Titus Motolite yet? 4 or 5 inches of travel - full seat tube, can take air or coil shocks and it has the horst link - and it still stays competitive price-wise with the Heckler, 575 etc. etc.

So many options - so little interest in my Belair frame.

that bike looks slack with the Fox 36 up front, but I bet it would be sweet with a Pike Team or Pike Air up front!

 

[pixelninja]

Mackie - I saw that last night - not sure if I'm diggin that orange now that I see it - but it is just a photo.

I'm not sure about the orange either. But I definitely like the Bling color. Its schuper schweet...

Did you see the new Titus Motolite yet? 4 or 5 inches of travel - full seat tube, can take air or coil shocks and it has the horst link - and it still stays competitive price-wise with the Heckler, 575 etc. etc.

Do you know where any pics and details can be found on the Motolite?

 

[MMcG]

I'm not sure about the orange either. But I definitely like the Bling color. Its schuper schweet...

Do you know where any pics and details can be found on the Motolite?

http://www.hammerheadbikes.com/company/news/interbike04.htm

Motolite pics and info! in that thread along with a lot of other very nice bike photos and info.