Nemesis Project SA(this is becoming a takeover)

Red Bull · Feb 11, 2007

i wouldn't suggest re-building a used rim, but whatever works for you.

nice frame though, brad does quality work.

Castle · Feb 11, 2007

nice! I'm sure you'll be diggin it! what's the geo on those?

f0ggy · Feb 11, 2007

Cant stop the kicks...

mikeG · Feb 11, 2007

Nice ride...you will love the way that frame feels. I just built up my SA and took it on my 2nd urban ride and can't stop smiling. Nemesis bikes are worth every penny & was worth the wait too.

BJ- · Feb 11, 2007

I love the new graphics, they look dope...

mikeG · Feb 11, 2007

snaky69 said:
I waited 4 months for mine. All the parts are waiting for me either on the floor of my room or at the LBS, all I'm missing is the fork, and according to Brad it will have shipped out this week, he's just waiting on the crown from Marz.

The build

Frame: Nemesis Project, Secret Agent 26, 22.30 TT, brushed aluminum stickers(Chrome sticker for the model name)
Fork: Custom one-off 06 Tuned Z1 Sport
Headset: Chris King NoThreadSet in red
Rims: Atomlab Pimps, red torque nipples
Spokes: DT Swiss 14/15/14G
Front hub: Axiom Sealed cartridge bearings
Rear hub: Atomlab Aircorp singlespeed 12T driver
Bottom Bracket: ? Whatever the shop installed on warranty when I broke mine, who cares, it still works.
Stem: Truvativ Hussfelt(soon to be Nemesis Project)
Grips: Snafu Red, or Oury Red
Bars: Titec El Norte cut down to 25(soon to be Nemesis Project steel bar)
Chain: KHE Half-link chain(hollow pins if budget permits)
Tires: Maxxis Holy Roller 2.2(if only maxxis wasn't written in yellow on them..)
Pedals: Snafu Red
Seat: Shadow Crow(same as on Brad's StreetFighter)
Seatpost: Thomson Masterpiece
Seat Collar: Easton, black
Brake: Avid Juicy 5, possible upgrade to red goodridge lines
Cranks: Some random 3-piece cranks by axiom
Sprocket: e.13 26T sprocket, but currently eyeing up tree and snafu offerings

I waited about the same amount of time but it was worth the wait. Looks like a nice build...Congrats!

manhattanprjkt83 · Feb 11, 2007

wow gonna be sexy...im curious about the stickers though :twitch:

...

grom-dom · Feb 11, 2007

mikeG said:
I waited about the same amount of time but it was worth the wait. Looks like a nice build...Congrats!

im still waiting on mine lol

Stoked · Feb 11, 2007

26/12..woah that's some wild gearing

Cru Jones · Feb 11, 2007

What up snake. Good to see you over here... there's some solid shredders floating around the monkey. Sweet ride.

dexter · Feb 11, 2007

26/12 is what i run on my deathmobile and it feels great

TGR · Feb 11, 2007

why do they all look so tall?
I mean every nemesis ht I see looks like it has a 20" long top tube but 18" tall seat tube

Evil4bc · Feb 12, 2007

TGR said:
why do they all look so tall?
I mean every nemesis ht I see looks like it has a 20" long top tube but 18" tall seat tube

Get a clue there 13 center to top , with 22.50 top tubes :disgust:

12" center to center as pictured below !
thanks for the help Ian

Cru Jones · Feb 12, 2007

Evil4bc said:
Get a clue there 13 center to top , with 22.50 top tubes
12" center to center as pictured below !
thanks for the help Ian

Yeah, he's exaggerating, but still, I kinda see what he's sayin. Is there a reason you don't make the ST shorter? Like say in the 10" to 11" range center to center? A lot of guys seem to prefer that style and it helps with clearance for certain tricks, as well. Don't get me wrong, your bikes are straight up rad, just curious.

Stoked · Feb 12, 2007

snaky69 said:
Edit: and for the ones wondering about the gearing, (26/12)*26= 56.3333 gear inches, pretty standard.

2.1666:1

ah i was thinking they were 24" wheels for some reason. my bad

Evil4bc · Feb 12, 2007

Cru Jones said:
Yeah, he's exaggerating, but still, I kinda see what he's sayin. Is there a reason you don't make the ST shorter? Like say in the 10" to 11" range center to center? A lot of guys seem to prefer that style and it helps with clearance for certain tricks, as well. Don't get me wrong, your bikes are straight up rad, just curious.

First off I dont like the way 10in seattube bike ride , too much wheel not enough frame , these bikes always seem like your rideing the wheels not the frame .

The SA already have a very sloped toptube which allows for more than enough look back clearence when needed .

Ok that being said , our rear dropouts are CNC machined to the exact angle our stays sit at , to lower the seattubes by 1/2" even I would have to make all new dropouts and a entirly new frame design thisisnt needed as everyone who have riden a SA have no trouble fireing out their entrie trick resume .

We can make the DM's with sub 10" seattubes for 24 wheels if we make the rear ends sub 15"

The bikes just feel so small at that point , well at least to me .

Evil4bc · Feb 12, 2007

On MTBR.com a user ask a very good question as to why we use longer chainstays and slacker seattube angles on our frames compaired to similer bikes with much shorter rear ends .
I dug this post up as it's sorta relevent to the longer seat tube's on our frames also.

Evil4bc taken from MTBR urban fourm said:
The rear ends on the 24" DM's are now 15.25 slammed , due to the seat angle we really cant make the rear ends any shorter , but the slack seat angle put's your ass over the rear wheel more than the union or a tonic designs do so with a longer rear end our bikes will still be easier to manual and have more bunnyhop POP when you really need it .

EDIT to statement : on the last 2 frames we built for fiddy rider and Foggy I reduced the center to center measurment of the rear end to 15.0 so with the chain pulled back and tensioned the rear ends ride at EXACTLY 15.25in to mimimize unwanted chainstay eye to ey groth due to chain tension , honestly who runs their rear axle slammed in the slots anyway ?? Not me :shocked:

question from MTBR member said:
First: I really like the Nemesis frames! BUT, I don't understand what you mean by this? Do you really bunny hop and manual sitting down???? How does seat angle make a big difference?
I think Union and Tonic and Geekhouse use yokes to get short chainstays.
Not trying to start a fight. I really do like your frames! Just wonderin'?

Evil4bc response to question quoted above said:
No problem .. good honest question

I'll try to explain this as best as possible , bike angles arnt as black and white as most marketing makes them out to be .
There are many variables such as axle to crown height , HA , B/B drop that can effect the way similar angles can make a bike completely different .

You are correct that you dont manuel sitting down , but you need to look beyond riding style and more toward how your body weight is positioned on the bicycle frame and how the angles of the frame distribute your weight over the two wheels .

The seat angle dictates were you body weight is positioned over the rear wheel and were the rear triangle is measured from .

Then you have B/B height of ground in relation to rear axle drop and this angle dictates how much leverage your frame can develop toward the rear axle .

Now both top tube leangh and head angle along with handle bar posistion are one of the biggest variables in this situation also .
Which give a better levrage point , short toptube with slack HA or longer Toptube with steeper HA ... these again are vaiables that differ per frame manufactor .

This is were axle to crown height come in to play , some bikes have measured axle to crowns as high as 520mm and some as low as 450mm .
Some builders will make their bikes with absurdly high axle to corwns and extreamly slack HA's only to raise the rear alxe drop up to 19mm + so when a 450mm fork is put ont he bike the HA will effectlvly be back down to 71

A bike with a shorter rear end with effectively almost 0.0 B/B drop and a steep seat angle 71+ will feel small but also be harder to get off the ground due to the B/b height relative to the axle to crown and the HA . Effectively making your body weight ride more toward the center of your front triangle keeping your body weight centered .

Our frame have a slightly longer rear end with the slacker seat-tube , effectively putting more of your body mass over the rear triangle , this mated with a steeper HA keep the bike frame stable .
The longer chain-stays give you more leverage and the B/B drop gives you a better starting leverage point .

IE: picture your chain-stay as a lever (chain-stay ) , now basic physics tell us that a shorter lever with pivot point ( B/B ) closer to the actuation point will make it hard to move said lever .
IE: bunnyhopping motion

Now picture the same lever slightly longer , with a hight pivot point and longer actuation ratio , this lever ill be easier to move .

It all comes down to basic physics , I hope this sheds some light on your question .
This is were minor differences in frame design and angles can make the biggest differences .

untitledsince89 · Feb 12, 2007

Awesome explanation Brad!!! that helped clear up a lot of bike geometry stuff!! wish I had the money for one of your frames

Evil4bc · Feb 12, 2007

untitledsince89 said:
Awesome explanation Brad!!! that helped clear up a lot of bike geometry stuff!! wish I had the money for one of your frames

Thanks ,glad it helped !!

grom-dom · Feb 13, 2007

Evil4bc said:
We can make the DM's with sub 10" seattubes for 24 wheels if we make the rear ends sub 15"

The bikes just feel so small at that point , well at least to me .

DUDE that would be sooooooooooooo sick!!!!!! and you're not short like me and im ians height. dude your lacondeguy description made me laugh so hard last night it was hilarious. as far as frames go, 12" isnt bad for 26" although its a little tall for someone under 5 feet or so im vouching personally. but save for a nemesis, they're just ridicoulous and NC could become nemesis capital USA!!!! erm, back on topic depending how tall you are, the frame geo should fit unless yer super short or crazy tall. its all in how you like your bikes to fit. just my $.02

opjones · Feb 13, 2007

Brad,

If the BB height is lower than your rear axle, creating a chain stay that angles down from the rear to the BB, does that make the bike harder to bunny hop and manual?

After readin thru your posting a few times I was trying to relay that to the geo on my P.3. Now I've never been able to manual good before, but my only practice is on my P.3. I did notice that my chainstay does slope down.

But I can still bunny hop it pretty good, but I've always been good at bunny hopping from the 20" days.

You can see what I'm trying to explain here.

Landon · Feb 13, 2007

File Under:

Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Freestyle Bicycle Frame Geometry (But Were Afraid To Ask.)

Calibrate Measuring Equipment:

Here Brad, I'll settle this for good. This is a 12inch ruler.

Theory:

the slack seat angle put's your ass over the rear wheel more than the union or a tonic designs do so with a longer rear end our bikes will still be easier to manual and have more bunnyhop POP when you really need it .

Critical Question:

Which give a better levrage point , short toptube with slack HA or longer Toptube with steeper HA ... these again are vaiables that differ per frame manufactor .

Additional Datum Points:

Then you have B/B height of ground in relation to rear axle drop and this angle dictates how much leverage your frame can develop toward the rear axle .

Conclusion:

Our frame have a slightly longer rear end with the slacker seat-tube , effectively putting more of your body mass over the rear triangle , this mated with a steeper HA keep the bike frame stable .

Conclusion (Layman's terms)

The longer chain-stays give you more leverage and the B/B drop gives you a better starting leverage point .

Supporting Science:

IE: picture your chain-stay as a lever (chain-stay ) , now basic physics tell us that a shorter lever with pivot point ( B/B ) closer to the actuation point will make it hard to move said lever .

It all comes down to basic physics

Researcher Bias:

First off I dont like the way 10in seattube bike ride , too much wheel not enough frame , these bikes always seem like your rideing the wheels not the frame .

There is NO reason a bike with 24" or 26" wheels needs a 10" seattube how are you supposed to do a flat table top on a bike with a shorter seattube than a basic bmx bike ....that just not right .

Pure Gold. This information should be archived for future reference.

Thank You.

-L

Boxxer · Feb 13, 2007

Hehe.

ServeEm · Feb 13, 2007

Can't dbl peg grind with too low of a BB.

Evil4bc · Feb 13, 2007

Landon said:
Pure Gold. This information should be archived for future reference.

Thank You.

-L

Thanks Landon !!

formermtboarder · Feb 13, 2007

untitledsince89 said:
Awesome explanation Brad!!! that helped clear up a lot of bike geometry stuff!! wish I had the money for one of your frames

Jon Phundstien! Mr. Enthusiasm!

No but seriously thanks, that was very helpful.

redclover · Feb 13, 2007

I can't say I have ever ridden a longer bike and found it easier to manual? Does that mean I am extra skilled cause I can manual my 10 year old BMX?

dexter · Feb 13, 2007

all i know os my deathmobile manuals like its all it wants to do, so easy to get up that i loop out a lot on it

Nemesis Project SA(this is becoming a takeover)

Monkey

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Rusty Trombone

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Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

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Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

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Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

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Chimp

Turbo Monkey

Monkey