New PC Term For "Homeless/Bums/Pan Handlers" etc...

Westy · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by N8

I perfer the term: "Urban Outsdoorsmen"....

Nice, I have always been fond of the classic term Hobo.

Spud · Jan 9, 2004

Another PC term for these people: Americans.

Just a little nugget to consider..

Although accurate numbers are impossible to come by ... no one keeps national records on homeless veterans ... the VA estimates that more than 299,321 veterans are homeless on any given night. And, more than half-a million experience homelessness over the course of a year. Conservatively, one out of every four homeless males who is sleeping in a doorway, alley, or box in our cities and rural communities has put on a uniform and served our country ... now they need America to remember them.

The U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) says homeless veterans are mostly males (2 % are females). The vast majority are single, most come from poor, disadvantaged communities, 45% suffer from mental illness, and half have substance abuse problems. Americas homeless veterans have served in World War II, Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon, or the militarys anti-drug cultivation efforts in South America. Forty-seven percent of homeless veterans served during the Vietnam Era. More than 67% served our country for at least three years and 33% were stationed in a war zone.

Source: http://www.nchv.org/index.cfm

Stay warm and enjoy a good meal.

llkoolkeg · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by Spud
Another PC term for these people: Americans.

Just a little nugget to consider..

Source: http://www.nchv.org/index.cfm

Stay warm and enjoy a good meal.

Here, here. Even when they are active-duty, many are eligible for gov't. assistance due to the pitifully low wages we pay our nation's warriors. :mad:

$tinkle · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by Spud
Another PC term for these people: Americans.

Just a little nugget to consider..

Although accurate numbers are impossible to come by ... no one keeps national records on homeless veterans ... the VA estimates that more than 299,321 veterans are homeless on any given night. And, more than half-a million experience homelessness over the course of a year. Conservatively, one out of every four homeless males who is sleeping in a doorway, alley, or box in our cities and rural communities has put on a uniform and served our country ... now they need America to remember them.

The U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) says homeless veterans are mostly males (2 % are females). The vast majority are single, most come from poor, disadvantaged communities, 45% suffer from mental illness, and half have substance abuse problems. Americas homeless veterans have served in World War II, Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon, or the militarys anti-drug cultivation efforts in South America. Forty-seven percent of homeless veterans served during the Vietnam Era. More than 67% served our country for at least three years and 33% were stationed in a war zone.

Click to expand...

hmmm...is there any suprise that homelessness has anything to do with upbringing & discipline? Vietnam vets are the largest group to have been conscripted or drafted. They weren't phase in to military life, nor were they phased back into civilian life. The onus does NOT squarely rest on the gov't for these people.

And will you (collective) please stop this crap about "put on a uniform & served our country"? Like that's the same as true service found in the likes of those who join the peace corps, or join some other organization where they actually...what's the word...SERVED.

After being in the military 9 years, i have breaking news: it's in no small part a welfare state.

loved the military - hated the sponges

fluff · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by $tinkle
conscripted or drafted

Dunno, it seems to me that the government was responsible for putting them into Vietnam, therefore they should take some responsibility for the consequences to the people in whose interests they are supposed to govern.

$tinkle · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by fluff
Dunno, it seems to me that the government was responsible for putting them into Vietnam, therefore they should take some responsibility for the consequences to the people in whose interests they are supposed to govern.

allow me to elaborate.
Vietnam (or other such conflict which required conscription/draft) was the quo of the quid-pro-quo equation. If the conscriptees/draftees were obedient to the law or persuing secondary education, the bullseye on their backs would be much smaller, and the gov't would thusly be less beholden to "cash in" on the individuals. Just like in the civilian world.

however, i realize this point of view runs the risk of painting me into a corner WRT "where, pray tell, do we get the service members necessary for force readiness once all the volunteers have been used up?"

obviously, this needs refinement.

Spud · Jan 9, 2004

Im very confused. A few months ago people on this board were tripping over themselves to proclaim how each and every one of troops over in Iraq were true heroes with stones the size of grapefruit.

But now the military has a large compliment of sponges, just one step away from being homeless squee-gee-men?

laura · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by N8
I'm not surprised...

I was in the service with a lot of guys that were "sidewalk camper" material. They typically were discharged after their first hitch (if they even lasted that long) because they didn't/wouldn't/couldn't conform to military standards and exibit at least a minimum of motivation.

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! do you realize that the majorirty of homeless are mentally or physically disabled. the vet that came back from vietnam with no legs or a missing arm has a really hard time supporting himslef for the rest of his life.

do you think that there is something so different between you and them. yeah they would rather lounge around all day on the streets than work, rather freeze to death than work to own a home, rather eat out of garbage cans than get a job and buy food. please. listen to yourself. there are so many factors that go into someone becoming homeless. and once it happens, it is virtually impossible to get a foothold again. next time you see a person sleeping on a bench when its -20 outside or digging in a garbage can for his fvcking dinner, try to convince yourself again that its because he's lazy and he didnt want to conform.

$tinkle · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by laura
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! do you realize that the majorirty of homeless are mentally or physically disabled. the vet that came back from vietnam with no legs or a missing arm has a really hard time supporting himslef for the rest of his life.

mentally misaligned, no doubt. What's arguable is which came first, homelessness (as if a "home" was ever lost in most cases), or mental illness. What's not arguable is that most homeless people are veteran amputees, this would be incorrect. I'll fall back on my volunteering in the South & the West for support. Feel free to supply contradictory evidence for review.

Originally posted by laura
do you think that there is something so different between you and them.

very much so, but that started early in life, with ample opportunities for change.

Originally posted by laura
yeah they would rather lounge around all day on the streets than work, rather freeze to death than work to own a home, rather eat out of garbage cans than get a job and buy food. please. listen to yourself. there are so many factors that go into someone becoming homeless. and once it happens, it is virtually impossible to get a foothold again.

drop me in any city, & inside of a month, i'll have a job, a bank account, 3 hots & a cot, and i'll even throw in a girlfriend to help deplete all these recently acquired assets. There's opportunity everywhere!

Originally posted by laura
next time you see a person sleeping on a bench when its -20 outside or digging in a garbage can for his fvcking dinner, try to convince yourself again that its because he's lazy and he didnt want to conform.

yeah, it's a real bitch the way shelters have their single criterion of showing up sober for entry (how DARE they do that w/ my tax dollars!)

$tinkle · Jan 9, 2004

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/01/09/elizabeth.smart.suspects.ap/

Elizabeth Smart kidnapping suspect ruled incompetent
"...Brian David Mitchell, 50, [is] charged with aggravated kidnapping, aggravated sexual assault and aggravated burglary in the June 5, 2002, abduction of Elizbeth, then 14.

They allegedly kept the girl as Mitchell's second wife for nine months in Utah and California. They were found March 12 about 15 miles south of Salt Lake City."

yeah, this serial rapist wasn't trying to change his homeless status, because he was too busy preying upon some fresh meat.

imagine my surprise :devil:

edited to add: they didn't mention his military service

Damn True · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by $tinkle

hmmm...is there any suprise that homelessness has anything to do with upbringing & discipline? Vietnam vets are the largest group to have been conscripted or drafted. They weren't phase in to military life, nor were they phased back into civilian life. The onus does NOT squarely rest on the gov't for these people.

And will you (collective) please stop this crap about "put on a uniform & served our country"? Like that's the same as true service found in the likes of those who join the peace corps, or join some other organization where they actually...what's the word...SERVED.

After being in the military 9 years, i have breaking news: it's in no small part a welfare state.

loved the military - hated the sponges [/B][/QUOTE]

Offended.
I spent eleven years as an aviator in the US Coast Guard. More often than I can recall waking at ungodly hours to fly a helo into weather that causes airplanes to crash and ships to sink.
Right now there are 100's of thousands of people alternately freezing their arses off or sweating their balls of while dodging the next barrage of RPG's. They are doing a job that few have the sack to do, for money that most of us would laugh at if offered.

If that isn't service I don't know what is.

Granted, for every aviator or infantryman there is probably 1/2 dozen overweight personellmen, or public affairs people who are wearing the same uni, but certainly not contributing or making the same sacrifices.

Damn True · Jan 9, 2004

We used to make fun of the dweebs in the PA (public affairs) rate. Basicly they write lame fluff pieces for CG newsletters, press releases that never get printed, and take photos. Our tag-line for them was "Public Affairs Specialist, if you are too scared to be a part of the action you can take pictures of those who aren't."

The HS (health services) folks were a gas too. Most of them saw themselves as a cross between a WWII war movie medic and a character on ER. When in reality they have the equvilant of a nurses assistant certificate from Bryman College.
Tag-line: "Health Services, when feeling another man's balls is as close as you'll get to having your own."

$tinkle · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by N8
And 90% of them are in the Air Force...

i prefer the term Chair Force, and to DT, this is more in line w/ what i know, for most of my interaction has been w/ AF. Therefore, i shall now issue clarification that when i say military, i mean Air Farce.

getting back on message, here're just a few programs to truly help the homeless:
- Stand Up for Kids, which rescues homeless & street kids
- Supplemental Security Income, which uses gen'l tax revenues (vice SS taxes)
- many local programs also, which can be tapped at most, if not all, shelters.

and if you care to know how "poor" we are, here's a "shocker" from the Heartland Institute (1998 report):

According to the US Census Bureau, 36 million Americans are "living in poverty." Can this alarming claim really be true? The simple answer is: No.

To most Americans, "poverty" means destitution: an inability to provide a family with nutritious food, appropriate clothing, and reasonable shelter. In reality, only a small fraction of persons classified as "poor" by the Census Bureau meet this description. The bulk of the "poor" live in material conditions which would have been judged comfortable or well-off just a few generations ago. Most "poor" Americans today are better housed, better fed, and own more personal property than average Americans throughout much of this century. Various government reports provide an interesting portrait of those the Census Bureau calls "poor."

In 1995, 41 percent of all "poor" households owned their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as "poor" is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio. Over three-quarters of a million "poor" persons own homes worth over $150,000; nearly 200,000 "poor" persons own homes worth over $300,000.

Only 7.5 percent of "poor" households are overcrowded. Nearly 60 percent have two or more rooms per person. The average "poor" American has a third more living space than the average Japanese and four times as much living space as the average Russian. Note: These comparisons are to the average Russians and Japanese, not to those the government classifies as poor.

Seventy percent of "poor" households own a car; 27 percent own two or more cars. Two-thirds of "poor" households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago only 36 percent of the entire US population enjoyed air conditioning.

Ninety-seven percent of "poor" households have a color television. Nearly half own two or more color televisions. Nearly three-quarters have a VCR; almost one in five has two VCRs. Sixty-four percent own microwave ovens; half have a stereo system; and over a quarter have an automatic dishwasher.

Despite frequent charges of widespread hunger in the US, 84 percent of the poor say their families have "enough" food to eat; 13 percent state they "sometimes" do not have enough to eat; while 3 percent report they "often" do not have enough to eat.

As a group the "poor" are far from being chronically hungry and malnourished. In fact, poor persons are more likely to be overweight than are middle-income persons. Nearly half of poor adult women are overweight.

The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-income children, and in most cases is well above recommended norms for all children. Most poor children today are in fact super-nourished. On average, poor boys grow up to be one inch taller and ten pounds heavier than the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II.

BurlyShirley · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by Damn True

Granted, for every aviator or infantryman there is probably 1/2 dozen overweight personellmen, or public affairs people who are wearing the same uni, but certainly not contributing or making the same sacrifices.

Hey,

Im public affairs you bastard

Though in the Marines...we're known as Combat Correspondents and are attached directly to the infantry companies to document battle scenes for publication in times of crisis...i can see why people think we dont sacrifice.

The thing is Damn True, for someone who has the same amount of schooling and knowledge and experience in the civilian world...they'd be making alot more cash than i am. Its always a sacrifice to serve.

BurlyShirley · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by N8
Or just as likely not. Many a liberal arts degree type is working at the late shift on a checkout counter at Sears...

I make more cash writing on the side than i do at my military job, and i havent even finished schooling yet.

ohio · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by Damn True
Granted, for every aviator or infantryman there is probably 1/2 dozen overweight personellmen, or public affairs people who are wearing the same uni, but certainly not contributing or making the same sacrifices.

But those are definitely NOT the contingent that will end up homeless. They obviously know how to work the system and can handle themselves in an office (not that they get work done, but they know how NOT to get fired). I would be more than willing to bet (given that I can't find any data on it) that the mojority of homeless vets come from infantry-type positions, and have seen direct conflict. In other words, they have served.

How can one (stinkle, N8... not you DT) possibly in good conscience not believe that the US government has some obligation towards them?

ohio · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by $tinkle
here's a "shocker" from the Heartland Institute (1998 report):

How does the Heartland Institute define "poor?" Obviously much broader than I do.... They play some word games in the first couple of sentences to make you think they're discussing the 36 million that the census describes as living in poverty. They're NOT. "poverty" does not equal "poor" according the the US census bureau.

If you allow your definition to include folks that own a $300,000 home, than it should come as no suprise that 200,000 of them do. Duh.

$tinkle · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by ohio
How can one (stinkle, N8... not you DT) possibly in good conscience not believe that the US government has some obligation towards them?

not my position.
rather, the onus is distributed, with the lion's share unspecified.

Originally posted by ohio
How does the Heartland Institute define "poor?" Obviously much broader than I do.... They play some word games in the first couple of sentences to make you think they're discussing the 36 million that the census describes as living in poverty. They're NOT. "poverty" does not equal "poor" according the the US census bureau.

here's the poverty numbers according to the census bureau. It fluctuates 'tween 21 - 54 million according to your thresholds. Funny enough, they define poverty, but don't give one hard number. Makes for "interesting" debate when opposing sides quote the same credible source, eh?

Lucee · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by laura
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! do you realize that the majorirty of homeless are mentally or physically disabled. the vet that came back from vietnam with no legs or a missing arm has a really hard time supporting himslef for the rest of his life.

do you think that there is something so different between you and them. yeah they would rather lounge around all day on the streets than work, rather freeze to death than work to own a home, rather eat out of garbage cans than get a job and buy food. please. listen to yourself. there are so many factors that go into someone becoming homeless. and once it happens, it is virtually impossible to get a foothold again. next time you see a person sleeping on a bench when its -20 outside or digging in a garbage can for his fvcking dinner, try to convince yourself again that its because he's lazy and he didnt want to conform.

True dat. And, the sad thing is, where are their families? I can't believe I would let my brother/sister lounge on the street, I would fight for a roof over their head. I really think this is another no win situation.

<<How ya been, Laura?

>>

TN · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by Lucee

<<How ya been, Laura?>>

i have been good. where have you been? i thought you dropped off the face of the monkey. tna nd i are getting married in june, wanna come down?

laura

Lucee · Jan 12, 2004

I've basically been on vacation since school let out. Went home to visit, visited a nekkid hot springs, rode in santa monica & santa barbara--awesome, can't wait to get back--and just did a retreat.

June, eh? Hmm, is there good riding out there? Yes, my visit IS conditional. Hehe.

I've told ya before, I'll always be around, I always come home.

Damn True · Jan 12, 2004

Nekkid hot springs? And you didn't call?

...........hurt

Lucee · Jan 12, 2004

Originally posted by Damn True
Nekkid hot springs? And you didn't call?

...........hurt

Well, I called Dana, I guess she didn't pass the invite along? :confused:

ohio · Jan 12, 2004

Aiiiiiiight, this is the political forum. Where's the real Lucee and what did you do with her, imposter?!?

Lucee · Jan 13, 2004

Originally posted by ohio
Aiiiiiiight, this is the political forum. Where's the real Lucee and what did you do with her, imposter?!?

Oh, sorry, what I meant was:

How can you guys debate something based on anecdotal evidence? I'll say it again, this political debate forum is nothing w/o those who use empirical evidence to back up their arguments.

Better?

<<Remind me sometime of a joke I got for ya.

>>

laura · Jan 13, 2004

Originally posted by Lucee
I've basically been on vacation since school let out. Went home to visit, visited a nekkid hot springs, rode in santa monica & santa barbara--awesome, can't wait to get back--and just did a retreat.

June, eh? Hmm, is there good riding out there? Yes, my visit IS conditional. Hehe.

I've told ya before, I'll always be around, I always come home.

the riding sucks but the company is excellent. naked hot springs sounds fantastic. so you are back in school now? today was my first day back. its goiing to be a long semester :rolleyes:

New PC Term For "Homeless/Bums/Pan Handlers" etc...

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

the teste

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

Monkey

Ranger LL

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

Expert on blowing

Monkey Turbo

Expert on blowing

Monkey

DH_Laura

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

Expert on blowing

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

Expert on blowing

Monkey Pimp

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

Monkey Pimp

Expert on blowing

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

Not the sharpest tool in the shed

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

The Fresno Kid

The Fresno Kid

Expert on blowing

govenor

Hey baby, want a hot dog?

govenor

Monkey Pimp

govenor

The Fresno Kid

govenor

DH_Laura