[pdawg]

What are the diffrences between the Kona Coiler and the RFX design ?

Seems like a nearly identical suspension system. Yet I hear the Kona pedals just acceptable(my immpression from reading only). And that the RFX pedals unreal !

Can anyone explain why that is ? Is it the geometry of ST & HT angles ?

Probaby also a combination of TT, SS, CS, and shock/rocker placement and stroke. :biggrin:

Seriously, the Coiler pedals very efficiently and is a well established design. Kona always gets snubbed when compared to boutique stuff... has to do more with marketing. I think you can get a complete Coiler bike for close to the same price as the RFX frame alone.

 

[pdawg]

I would have to second the SX Trail. As a long time Kona Coiler rider, I was blown away when demoing the SX Trail. I'm convinced it would be a better mini-dh sled that can be pedaled (if you don't mind the weight). Compared to the Coiler it has:

- better standover height
- lower center of gravity
- slightly longer wheelbase
- lower shock leverage ratio
- more travel
- slacker head angle
- adjustable geometry

I Still dig my custom Coilair as a 32 pound all-mountain rig, but my soon-to-be-built SX trail is coming to the bike park with me next season.

You didn't mean possible XC/Trailbike that could be used for FR/DH, did you?

 

[kona-ryder]

Probaby also a combination of TT, SS, CS, and shock/rocker placement and stroke. :biggrin:

Seriously, the Coiler pedals very efficiently and is a well established design. Kona always gets snubbed when compared to boutique stuff... has to do more with marketing. I think you can get a complete Coiler bike for close to the same price as the RFX frame alone.

Word...
My dad just picked up a Kona Coiler, built up with a Fox RLC 130 for, other than that it is stock, and it pedals really well, and can take a constant beating... He was coming from a 27lb titanium xc hardtail, so he would be able to notice any suspension bob... once he gets it in a small gear and stays relatively calm on the pedals there is no noticalbe suspension bob... He has jumped it and abused it for a while now and it still is rolling strong... oh yeah by the way he weights 250lbs, so any bike that can withstand his hucking must be tough,.

 

[RJM]

What are the diffrences between the Kona Coiler and the RFX design ?

Seems like a nearly identical suspension system. Yet I hear the Kona pedals just acceptable(my immpression from reading only). And that the RFX pedals unreal !

Can anyone explain why that is ? Is it the geometry of ST & HT angles ?

I think its the shock and pivot location subtleties that make the difference...

Turners do not ride like Kona's. Trust me.

 

[erikkellison]

What are the diffrences between the Kona Coiler and the RFX design ?

Seems like a nearly identical suspension system. Yet I hear the Kona pedals just acceptable(my immpression from reading only). And that the RFX pedals unreal !

Can anyone explain why that is ? Is it the geometry of ST & HT angles ?

Most if not all of the performance of the two bikes is hype. Turner riders like to shout off the rooftops how great their bikes are, and Kona's get a bad rap for being affordable and a little too heavy, and not bling.
One performance thing Turner's do have over Kona's is that they use bushings, not bearings, which are far superior as far as longevity, maintenance and stiffness are concerned. But if the pivots are roughly in the same place, and the shock is the same, and the angles on the bike are roughly the same, then the bikes will squish the same. I suppose there are little things you can do with pivot placement that might affect performance by a small bit, but it's only a small bit, and there's not some magical pivot placement location that Turner found that makes their Faux Bar pedal far better than a Kona - that's marketing and hype.

 

[gmac]

Sounds like a very realistic answer. Thank You.

 

[RJM]

I should mention one thing, where credit is due, credit is due.

Read this post...

"ok boys and girls. a HUGE disclamer here! this is a unofficial story but as i hear it, pretty accurate none the less. its been discussed in some mags in the past and around the industry but its been many years since it went down so i figure its safe to tell now. the other point i wanna make is this is kinda one sided as i never discussed this with the folks i know at kona. my hope is not to piss anyone off in bellingham but to let you homers in on just how mello a guy dt is and provide a little history. fair enough? good. here goes.....

once uppon a time, kona sponsored the misser brothers. as rad said, kona didnt have a world cup ready bike, turner did and it was considered the to be one of the best on the hill if not A # 1, so kona worked a deal with dt, bought a few, painted them gold and went racing. i beleive it was '97 that thomas rode the Afterburner to a couple of world cup wins and a championship. good deal for everyone involved and congrats! this was turners first rainbow stiped bike and id say they were damn proud even though they couldnt outright say "we won!" to the public due to the lack of turner stickers on the frame but we all knew what was what.

so sometime that season or just after, a deal was struck between turner and kona to produce some misser replica frames with turner geo and fittings but made by kona via licensing agreement. so the drawings are sent to bellingham from colorado, then the base for turner bikes, for final review before a deal is signed. now heres where it goes bad. dt goes to the kona offices for a chit chat, presumably to sign the deal and is told its a no go but thanx just the same for all the help. so he picks up his loaned drawings and empty checkbook and starts headin out the door. oh but wait! what do his wandering eyes see? a friggin stack of turner copies with kona logos and a "misser replica" sticker on the fresh gold paint. nice! ok, so maybe they werent painted yet but ya get the idea. (edit: now that i think about it, maybe he hadnt in fact given them anything, yet they had some drawings for the frame on a table and told him where the dougnuts were rolling. yep, i think thats it.) all i can say is way to play it straight up guys.

does turner sue? no. do they talk crap? no. when asked about the whole thing, dt says in a MBA interview soon after that being copied is the highest form of flattery. well by now he shoulda been used to it as most everything out there at the time was a rocker bike of some sort and alot still are. consider yerself flattered mr turner! and thanx for the lesson in class. personally i woulda put a lit bag of dog poop on their doorstep, rung the bell and skedaddled! that woulda showed em by golly!"

 

[RideHard]

http://www.bustedspoke.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=29946

 

[pdawg]

Kona uses Enduro cartridge sealed bearings except for the lower seat stay pivot, which is a bushing. I just finished the second season on my '05 Coiler and no complaints from the pivot points even through some nasty conditions.

 

[erikkellison]

Kona uses Enduro cartridge sealed bearings except for the lower seat stay pivot, which is a bushing. I just finished the second season on my '05 Coiler and no complaints from the pivot points even through some nasty conditions.

That's cool that Kona does use a bushing, I didn't know that. Seriously though, 2 seasons isn't enough to go bragging about longevity though, there are Turner users that have 10 year old frames w/ the same bushings, and a bearing, any pivot bearing (when used regularly) won't last that long. It's not Kona's fault (except for them using bearings), it's the bearing's fault.

 

[pdawg]

That's cool that Kona does use a bushing, I didn't know that. Seriously though, 2 seasons isn't enough to go bragging about longevity though, there are Turner users that have 10 year old frames w/ the same bushings, and a bearing, any pivot bearing (when used regularly) won't last that long. It's not Kona's fault (except for them using bearings), it's the bearing's fault.

Luckily replacement cartridge bearings cost only about $5 each. If my current ones don't last 10 years I ain't gonna sweat it. With the money I saved on the frame I was able to get some nice upgrade parts.

Bling Coiler....

http://24.199.7.43/coilerd_2.jpg

 

[rigidhack]

Find a used Sinister Splinter MX. I freaking love mine and use it for everything!