[Captain Crunch]

Friday evening I was told by a customer and fellow freerider that he had heard a report of trail sabotage up on the two seven. According to him, a female co-worker who also rides this trail was up on Wed. or Thu. and saw several instances of trail Nazi-ism, deliberate cutting of supports for some of the built features of the trail, designed to go unnoticed until it is too late. If this is true, which I have as yet been unable to confirm, one or more of the features up there could be ready to blow up under a rider very soon, if it hasn't happened yet. I rode this trail twice in the past week, most recently last Wed. and as of then, we noticed nothing unusual. It should be clarified however, that I do not ride some of the most advanced features on that trail, and that being the case, may not have noticed foul play on the Catheter, or on the new features either.

My friends and I who rode on Wed. cleared away a tree which had fallen upon one of the features near the beginning of the trail, and at first thought that was what this rider saw and thought was sabotage, but my friend was quite clear on the fact that his colleague thought they observed something amiss.

I will try to get up there ASAP, but anyone else riding there or planning to would be really smart to carefully inspect everything up there, and it would be GREAT if someone who can get up there right away does so, and lets us all know what's going on. I must say, I hope this lady was mistaken, but why would you spread that particular warning unless it were true? Even if it's only one feature, it could send someone to the hospital or worse.

I wasn't sure whether I should post this for fear of undue scrutiny of one of our favorite riding spots, but I'm just a bit too worried that harm will come to one of you out there, which could be prevented by this warning.

 

[oly]

Its been a long time since ive been there... like 2 years.... I did hear some of some concern now that a certain new trail that crosses the JW trail a few times has been made. The concern was that the trail is now much more obvious to those who arent so keen on pirate trails out there. Hope no one gets hurt.....

 

[Skookum]

What a total drag, i've heard of this stuff happening alot in California, i really hope it doesn't start happening here.

 

[thesacrifice]

is this supposed to be like activisits that spike lumber trees or out of control XCers?

Where is this place anyways? Ive only heard wonderful things, some great stuff about an exit in the 30's too, directions would be gnarly, thanks

 

[oly]

Directions online are a

 

[Captain Crunch]

PM a buddy or two, and if they're riding the area, they will be happy to guide you. It's much better to get this info face to face and to be guided there inperson by someone familiar with the trail. Likewise, once you know, you should practice the same discretion in these matters.

 

[thesacrifice]

got it! Guess I'll hope to run into one of you guys

 

[radjockette]

This is not good. I've been riding there over the last month or so. Haven't been in a couple weeks due to hurting my jewels but am back on my bike again. I plan on riding tomorrow late morning and if it's not raining too bad, I'll go hit it. If the weather looks too sour, I was going to ride somewhere else where I don't have to ride forest road in the open. I'll let everyone know if I get up there tomorrow. If not, I'll try hitting it on thursday.

I remember a time gone past when that trail was very secret and then word got out to those mtn. bike haters (sierra club), and they hacked it and it was dormant for about a year. I have seen other autos at the parking spot that are not mtn. bikers. Seen some hikers with dogs too. I usually ride late mornings til around noonish so if this news turns out to be true, maybe I'll run into them.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Thanks, please keep us updated if you get up there this week. I don't even like posting about the exits, but this seemed important enough that it was something that ought to be mentioned.

 

[Zman]

teh specific sabotage i heard about on teh trail had to do with the ladder to ladder gap...that the take off kinda cracked under a guy and he hit the landing and that collapsed below him. i heard that a few weeks ago. unfortunately have not heard anything since then. actually heard that up at whistler when i was buys destroying my rear shock (snapped the shaft) so who knows. glad to hear on the other thread that everything looks good though

 

[oly]

sabbotage, or failing construction??

 

[Zman]

well now i believe failing construction, from some friends i heard that the gap waas a little sketchy in the first place for height/distance. so too many people may have been casing it and therefore it collapsed on this guy....anyway just what i heard

 

[WARider]

Well it doesn't surprise me however it still pisses me off to hear that people go out and deliberately destroy things that have taken so long to build. Also with the intent of hurting a fellow rider.

I myself built an off the trail trail with my own stunts out at Victor falls and a 25 ft long bridge I built through the trees to a 15ft drop was torn down along with the lower half to a bridge roll that we built up a good 12ft in the tree's. I really don't understand the drive behind destroying our trails or setting them up for failure but this goes along with the parking lot issue's of theft throughout Washington. Who in the Fvck is out there doing this type of activity and why? I mean if destruction and immorality is your thing, why not put it to better use getting some cash out of it... What the fvck is wrong with people?

As stated in the parking lot debate, a good tazer and a fish club are in order for anyone who causes this type of activity. From time to time I spot kids pulling up to the lot with their friends and chics to go smoke one towards the trail but I never see them with any devices to destroy.

 

[Borneo]

Uhm.... maybe the land manager tore the stunts down 'cuz you were illegally building them on his property?

Not that they'd have a right to screw with your building on their land or any thing like that.

Geez, what would they be thinking.....?

(Putting on my flame suit. Gimme a minute.)

 

[WARider]

Uhm.... maybe the land manager tore the stunts down 'cuz you were illegally building them on his property?

Not that they'd have a right to screw with your building on their land or any thing like that.

Geez, what would they be thinking.....?

(Putting on my flame suit. Gimme a minute.)

Umm... I'm going to go with a "NO" for this one

Half the stunts were left up, the easier one's to tip over or destroy. What was destroyed was the one's that took several days to make like my catwalk through the trees project to a 15ft drop. But nice try smart @ss. :nuts:

 

[Snacks]

Umm... I'm going to go with a "NO" for this one

Half the stunts were left up, the easier one's to tip over or destroy. What was destroyed was the one's that took several days to make like my catwalk through the trees project to a 15ft drop. But nice try smart @ss. :nuts:

He is nearly stating a good reason why someone would tear stunts down that you didn't build on your property.

 

[WARider]

He is nearly stating a good reason why someone would tear stunts down that you didn't build on your property.

I'm well aware of that and that thought was considered, thanks for making sure though...

If it were the land owner which it's not they would of tore down all of the stunts we built out there, not just the two larger one's that took several sun up to sun down days to make. Besides, Victor falls is being torn down so that is why the owner gave up on keeping the dirt bikers out of there, he also could give a rats @ss if we built "MOSTLY" free standing stunts with our own 2x4 construction, meaning, no tree's were harmed in the process for all you tree huggers
Oh wait, we did use a few tree's as braces, but nothing a hammer couldn't punch out with a few wacks on the brace cross boards.

No this was an act of vandalism, just as they have vandalized other peoples stunts in the same vacinity.

 

[oly]

Um, Ill have to say ive seen that stunt area. The thing i noticed was a bunch of nails still in the trees. In my opinion a very big deal. When that area is finally logged you have put people at risk. Now maybe they will notice the scrap pile that were your stunts and be more cautious, but maybe not. A chainsaw isnt made to cut steel and when they do people can get real hurt. Also if the nails make it past logging, then the dudes workign the lumber mills have to deal with it...... big deal right?? Hm, well hopefully none of my logging family gets that lumber.....

Also, maybe the land owners decided your 15' tall rickety cat walk was too much a liability?? Victor has had its share of stunt areas over the years, thats nothing new. But the new breed of pallet wood built stunts is. Ive seen stuff in the woods i wouldnt even let my cat walk on (capital forest). Even some of the existing launch ramps there were pretty sketchy looking....

Im not trying to make enemies here, but your sorta starting a war by calling Borneo a smart ass when he is just stating some good reasoning. No need to be that way, smiles or not. I think i'd trust his info as he tends to know alot of people in the land access scene.....

My 2c.....

 

[WARider]

Um, Ill have to say ive seen that stunt area. The thing i noticed was a bunch of nails still in the trees. In my opinion a very big deal. When that area is finally logged you have put people at risk. Now maybe they will notice the scrap pile that were your stunts and be more cautious, but maybe not. A chainsaw isnt made to cut steel and when they do people can get real hurt. Also if the nails make it past logging, then the dudes workign the lumber mills have to deal with it...... big deal right?? Hm, well hopefully none of my logging family gets that lumber.....

Also, maybe the land owners decided your 15' tall rickety cat walk was too much a liability?? Victor has had its share of stunt areas over the years, thats nothing new. But the new breed of pallet wood built stunts is. Ive seen stuff in the woods i wouldnt even let my cat walk on (capital forest). Even some of the existing launch ramps there were pretty sketchy looking....

Im not trying to make enemies here, but your sorta starting a war by calling Borneo a smart ass when he is just stating some good reasoning. No need to be that way, smiles or not. I think i'd trust his info as he tends to know alot of people in the land access scene.....

My 2c.....

Call it what you will the stunts I built were all free standing except two 2x4 boards that were hammered into two trees so that I had a brace to run it across to. I used minimal nails, maybe two or three per board that I did hammer to a tree, and when it was time to log, all they would have to do is take that 1 board out and there would be no nail issues. (Most everything supports itself out there! When I had finished my catwalk and all the other stunts I built they were in great shape, not rickety so obviously you went to the wrong trail. I also used 2x4's not "new breed pallet wood" so I'm not sure what trail it is your talking about. I was joking with Borneo, then snacks took it the wrong way as did you. Not trying to make enemies, but when someone calls you out or talks trash about something you made that is way off course, there's plenty of room for correction.

 

[Langer]

Theres another thread that says the trail is fine. Lets be nice and let this thread drop away into the abyss, never to be scene again.

 

[Snacks]

no tree's were harmed in the process for all you tree huggers

Oh wait, we did use a few tree's as braces, but nothing a hammer couldn't punch out with a few wacks on the brace cross boards.

For you to assume that myself, or any others that think it's wrong to complain about having stunts you build on private land with out permission torn down, are all tree huggers only magnifies your ignorance.

 

[WARider]

For you to assume that myself, or any others that think it's wrong to complain about having stunts you build on private land with out permission torn down, are all tree huggers only magnifies your ignorance.

Ahh snacks did I hurt your feeling's? Well I was trying to keep it civil but obviously you and a couple of others came out and attacked me so what do you figure I should do? I think what it is is that you can't handle when someone actually replies to your cunning lil remarks. Last I checked Victor falls is getting torn down day by day and a few man made stunts that were made out of hauled in lumber whch 80% of it is free standing is hardly worth gripping about. Not when you have dirt bikers ripping up the forest or meth labs in the southeast corner or poachers etc... I was coming at you and your hubby lightly in a joking sense hence the smiley faces and since we've rode together once. But I can see that your just picking a fight with you fingers.

 

[oly]

Call it what you will the stunts I built were all free standing except two 2x4 boards that were hammered into two trees so that I had a brace to run it across to. I used minimal nails, maybe two or three per board that I did hammer to a tree, and when it was time to log, all they would have to do is take that 1 board out and there would be no nail issues. (Most everything supports itself out there! When I had finished my catwalk and all the other stunts I built they were in great shape, not rickety so obviously you went to the wrong trail. I also used 2x4's not "new breed pallet wood" so I'm not sure what trail it is your talking about. I was joking with Borneo, then snacks took it the wrong way as did you. Not trying to make enemies, but when someone calls you out or talks trash about something you made that is way off course, there's plenty of room for correction.

What i saw were random boards scattered on the ground (with plenty of nails poking out), and a clump of nails still left in the tree. I didnt spend too much time checking it out.... so, if the rest of the stuff was all free standing then cool.... maybe when your out there next bring a hammer to yank out those nails left behind.

 

[oly]

But I can see that your just picking a fight with you fingers.

She was tired of picking her nose.......

 

[WARider]

What i saw were random boards scattered on the ground (with plenty of nails poking out), and a clump of nails still left in the tree. I didnt spend too much time checking it out.... so, if the rest of the stuff was all free standing then cool.... maybe when your out there next bring a hammer to yank out those nails left behind.

I'll tell you what, I'll organize a work party to go out there with some of my bro's and a few of the locals that were helping out and take care of the nail issues sometime this fall. Come on ya'll, I'm not trying to be the enemy here, but a brotha's gotta defend himself if he's attacked. One love~

~J

 

[Snacks]

Ahh snacks did I hurt your feeling's? Well I was trying to keep it civil but obviously you and a couple of others came out and attacked me so what do you figure I should do? I think what it is is that you can't handle when someone actually replies to your cunning lil remarks. Last I checked Victor falls is getting torn down day by day and a few man made stunts that were made out of hauled in lumber whch 80% of it is free standing is hardly worth gripping about. Not when you have dirt bikers ripping up the forest or meth labs in the southeast corner or poachers etc... I was coming at you and your hubby lightly in a joking sense hence the smiley faces and since we've rode together once. But I can see that your just picking a fight with you fingers.

Hurt my feeling?

I can't handle it when someone replies to my cunning little remarks?

 

[Borneo]

Hey, I just thought it was funny that you referred to Trailhacker as her hubby.
Still waiting for the retaliation on that one.

WARider, it's very clear that you're new to the scene. That's cool. We all had to learn the hard way at some point. When you posted pictures and pleas to come ride your stuff, it left many of us just shaking our heads at the monitor. Sad, but true. New guy I guess...well, he'll learn.
You also mentioned that you felt that it was fellow riders tearing your stuff down. Highly unlikely.
One of the reasons no one likes to say where anything shady is on a public forum. All you have to do is pose as a, "bro" and get the details just to tear it down. Guess what? There's people who hate what we're doing and hate our sport reading this right now. Gleaning it for information to hold against us.
Sad, but true.

Since it sounds like the real high up stuff that was attached to the trees is where the only "damage" was done, perhaps the land manager is non-verbally setting your limits out there? The free standing and lower stuff is ok maybe?
If that's the case. Awesome. You gotta take what you can get in this sport nowadays.

Freak and I had a conversation a long long time ago about building and the man. This is nothing new. The folks that work the woods for a living know where every bootleg trail anyone ever builds is. Believe it or not. Most of those people who are just grunts workin' the land are pretty cool. But, even they have limits and if one of them mentioned something to the company's risk management guy, well you don't have a leg to stand on. Even if they will be homes next week.
That's all I'm sayin. (And, I did not see the humor in the initial response. One of the bad things about the web. But, appreciate the follow up.)

 

[Tacoma Lad]

:eviltongu Hey I got a way to solve this bitter argument......go get those fat guy suits and go at it. That would be cool to see plus we can sell tickets and use the money to build the next outlaw trail in the area :evil:

 

[WARider]

:eviltongu Hey I got a way to solve this bitter argument......go get those fat guy suits and go at it. That would be cool to see plus we can sell tickets and use the money to build the next outlaw trail in the area :evil:

lol...

 

[WARider]

Hey, I just thought it was funny that you referred to Trailhacker as her hubby.
Still waiting for the retaliation on that one.

WARider, it's very clear that you're new to the scene. That's cool. We all had to learn the hard way at some point. When you posted pictures and pleas to come ride your stuff, it left many of us just shaking our heads at the monitor. Sad, but true. New guy I guess...well, he'll learn.
You also mentioned that you felt that it was fellow riders tearing your stuff down. Highly unlikely.
One of the reasons no one likes to say where anything shady is on a public forum. All you have to do is pose as a, "bro" and get the details just to tear it down. Guess what? There's people who hate what we're doing and hate our sport reading this right now. Gleaning it for information to hold against us.
Sad, but true.

Since it sounds like the real high up stuff that was attached to the trees is where the only "damage" was done, perhaps the land manager is non-verbally setting your limits out there? The free standing and lower stuff is ok maybe?
If that's the case. Awesome. You gotta take what you can get in this sport nowadays.

Freak and I had a conversation a long long time ago about building and the man. This is nothing new. The folks that work the woods for a living know where every bootleg trail anyone ever builds is. Believe it or not. Most of those people who are just grunts workin' the land are pretty cool. But, even they have limits and if one of them mentioned something to the company's risk management guy, well you don't have a leg to stand on. Even if they will be homes next week.
That's all I'm sayin. (And, I did not see the humor in the initial response. One of the bad things about the web. But, appreciate the follow up.)

First off, I refered to you as her hubby, not sure if you read my post wrong or...
Second, yes I'm new to the building scene of the northwest and all the crap politics that surrounds it. I've learned over the past couple of months what it's like here in Washington. I'm from MT and in MT you can build whatever you want. Of course most of us spend our time just riding trail but this past May I decided to build a bit to help my friend out with practicing for events. I apologize if I come off as a new guy, I guess to this area I am but I've been riding bikes since I could walk. It's all good though, you live and you learn. For now, I'll just keep posting up stuff I might build in the future, or ad onto for existing trails and if I send out an invite to ride, that's what it is, I could care less if anyone from here comes or not, there's no pleading going on here to have people come ride and not maint. my hard work. Victor was a trial and error trail, and so I move on with lesson's learned about the people of this state as well as the politics that govern "you all".

No hard feelings towards you Borneo, or your wifey "Snacks".

I'm just a joe schmoe trying to enhance some of the trails for those of us who like to update things for improving skills. You see to me, Mtn. biking is my hobby at which I go have fun. Seems like for some of you its your job?

 

[brock]

No hard feelings towards you Borneo, or your wifey "Snacks".

Even funnier.............

 

[NateH]

All this argueing is sweet and all but does anyone actualy know for certain if the stunts at 27 have been sabotaged or not? I rode there last week and everything was fine, the cedar to cedar jump was good the ramp to ramp to ramp was good, i didn't notice anything. Anyone have a different story.

 

[oly]

Nate. someone posted that everything looked fine, except they didnt check the top 2 built things.

its not even winter and the bitterness has set in. Man, its gonna be along time till the first WIM related "to jump or not to jump" thread........

 

[NateH]

Man, its gonna be along time till the first WIM related "to jump or not to jump" thread........

I don't care who ya are thats some funny ****. Actually next season is looking like that question may still exist but in an entirely different way. As in not a "is this jump made right?" type-a-way but a "wow that is a sweet looking jump, but is is to big for me" type-a-way. Imagine stuff we have to go around not cause it's ****y but because its big and sweet :love:

 

[trailhacker]

... I was coming at you and your hubby lightly in a joking sense hence the smiley faces and since we've rode together once...

Snacks.... is there something we need to talk about???? You tell me your working late but as it turns out your secretly married to Borneo?!?!?!?!? Thats it, I'm kicking you both in the crotch next time I see you!!!!!!!

WAR, I find it amazing that you have a problem with people tearing down stunts. Granted you haven't been aroun here long, but in any semi-urban trails (like Victor Falls) wouldn't you think people have already gone through fights just to keep access open? Maybe in MT you built where-ever you wanted, but I doubt the land owners were ok with someone building structures on their property.

I build lots of trails that are of the "shady" variety, and although none have yet to be torn down or closed, I anticipate the day when they are (well I guess if you include Snoqualmie....). I will be bummed to see my hard work destroyed, but thats how it is. Regretably since I've had it pretty good this way so far, that is probably why I'm not real involved with access issues and helping to get more. When they close me out, thats probably when I'll see the error of my ways and start pushing hard to get legal access. Also, although I build few structures, I don't nail into living trees or salvageable lumber on the ground if I do. That isn't treehugging. In fact it has little to do with the trees at all, but with the people that are going to get in a bunch because that is there biggest concern.

Whether or not Victor is being torn down plot by plot, to go in there and build structures then bitch when they get torn down is pretty useless. It reminds me of when they bulldozed southwoods (dj's). The owners kept telling them it was going to get flattened and when it finally went they were all up in arms about it - started a forum on website where they called the land manager all sorts of names, and people that have been around for a while just stood back and shook their heads and laughed.

PM Jeepmauler and ask him about the DNR meetings he goes to where there #2 (if I remember correctly) concern where renegade MTB trails, primarily structures.

 

[Skookum]

 

[moondog]

Wait! Since when did being a treehugger become a bad thing? I'm always the last to know!! :mumble:

*sigh*
(moondog throws his "save the spotted owl" t-shirt into the trash and wipes a tear from his eye.)

 

[WARider]

Snacks.... is there something we need to talk about???? You tell me your working late but as it turns out your secretly married to Borneo?!?!?!?!? Thats it, I'm kicking you both in the crotch next time I see you!!!!!!!

WAR, I find it amazing that you have a problem with people tearing down stunts. Granted you haven't been aroun here long, but in any semi-urban trails (like Victor Falls) wouldn't you think people have already gone through fights just to keep access open? Maybe in MT you built where-ever you wanted, but I doubt the land owners were ok with someone building structures on their property.

I build lots of trails that are of the "shady" variety, and although none have yet to be torn down or closed, I anticipate the day when they are (well I guess if you include Snoqualmie....). I will be bummed to see my hard work destroyed, but thats how it is. Regretably since I've had it pretty good this way so far, that is probably why I'm not real involved with access issues and helping to get more. When they close me out, thats probably when I'll see the error of my ways and start pushing hard to get legal access. Also, although I build few structures, I don't nail into living trees or salvageable lumber on the ground if I do. That isn't treehugging. In fact it has little to do with the trees at all, but with the people that are going to get in a bunch because that is there biggest concern.

Whether or not Victor is being torn down plot by plot, to go in there and build structures then bitch when they get torn down is pretty useless. It reminds me of when they bulldozed southwoods (dj's). The owners kept telling them it was going to get flattened and when it finally went they were all up in arms about it - started a forum on website where they called the land manager all sorts of names, and people that have been around for a while just stood back and shook their heads and laughed.

PM Jeepmauler and ask him about the DNR meetings he goes to where there #2 (if I remember correctly) concern where renegade MTB trails, primarily structures.

It's all good lil buddy...

Riddle me this:
"In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most merciful
by night as it enshrouds
by the day as it illuminates
by him who created the male and female
indeed your affairs lead to various ends.
For who gives[of himself] and acts righteously,
and conforms to goodness,
we will give him ease.
But as for him who is niggardly deeming himself self-sufficient and rejects goodness,
We will indeed ease his path to adversity.
Nor shall his wealth save him as he perishes
for Guidance is from Us and to Us belongs the Last and the First."

Location?

 

[oly]

I ate one of those once... or did i lick it, or smoke it?? Whatever i did i was high for years. Still see episodes of the smurfs when i look into the mirror........

 

[WARider]

Wait! Since when did being a treehugger become a bad thing? I'm always the last to know!! :mumble:

*sigh*
(moondog throws his "save the spotted owl" t-shirt into the trash and wipes a tear from his eye.)

lol...