SCCA drops ProRally and ClubRally
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that sucks, I had alot of fun a the Pikes peak hill climb this summmer watching prorally, I doubt there is anything that can be done about it (damn insurance people).
Long live WRC
Long live WRC
Been following the local prorally even now for about 4-5 years, hopefully things will work out
my guess is that by 05 they will have a sanctioning body.
it will be a better one with better rules. there are a lot of people
who know what to do and how to do it right.
they are going to try and start a Group F class,
i am psykes about. i havea alway wanted to get into it.
now mabey the cost will come down.
groupf.org
it will be a better one with better rules. there are a lot of people
who know what to do and how to do it right.
they are going to try and start a Group F class,
i am psykes about. i havea alway wanted to get into it.
now mabey the cost will come down.
groupf.org
Unfortunately Rally is hurting right now. Ford, Mitsu and Hyundao have pulled their factory teams. (for various reasons)
Ahhh! I saw that yesterday! I am so pissed now that I didn't go up to the Cog. I heard Rally-america.com may start something up. Anyone have any info?
FIA Plans Radical Overhaul of WRC RulesMtb_Rob_FL said:
Written by: RACER staff
London, UK 9/29/2004
FIA president Max Mosley has sent out his starkest warning yet to manufacturers in the World Rally Championship that the series will not survive unless drastic action is taken to cut costs.
In a move that mirrors his bid to cut spiraling costs in Formula 1, Mosley has contacted all the current and possible future manufacturers in the WRC outlining rule changes he plans to introduce in 2006.
The proposed regulations known as Super 2000 would be a dramatic move away from the sports current rules, but Mosley believes they constitute the only hope of keeping the WRC alive.
He told Autosport magazine, "On the basis of the information available at present, the only sure way of keeping the World Rally Championship alive and prosperous is to make the changes which are currently under discussion."
Under Mosley's proposed new system, two-liter engines would replace the existing turbocharged power plants, while the sophisticated electronic and transmission systems would be canned in favor of a simpler and cheaper alternative that would be made available to all the manufacturers through a single supplier.
The WRC currently has five manufacturers competing in the series. But Mitsubishi suspended its 2004 program following Rally Deutschland after a disastrous time with the Lancer, while Ford has yet to decide whether it will even take part in the championship next year.
"The way things are right now, it's almost certain one manufacturer is going to walk away," admitted a senior source within the FIA. "If that happens then we will lose one of the French teams. If that happens, then it is highly unlikely one French team will stay to fight Subaru, so they will also go then the world championship will collapse.
"There is a high level of interest in Super 2000. These cars would cost about a quarter of what current WRC cars cost and, if we are draconian in the way we govern the sport in the coming years, then we can avoid that collapse. The case for Super 2000 is overwhelming. The alternative is nothing. The alternative is no WRC."
this is good imo. get the plaing feild level and bringing down the cost to allow more teams.
I have mixed feelings
IMHO the tranny thing sounds good, but what appeals to me IS the turbo charged power plants of the current WRC. They just translate better to real world performance available on the street. Not to mention they are just very cool. With NA 2.0 engines you are going to end up seeing some crazy stuff to get any kind of power, and I mean crazy as in stuff that the avg Joe will just never be able to duplicate on his street car. (big compression 12:1 and higher, 5 valve engines)
etc etc
IMHO the tranny thing sounds good, but what appeals to me IS the turbo charged power plants of the current WRC. They just translate better to real world performance available on the street. Not to mention they are just very cool. With NA 2.0 engines you are going to end up seeing some crazy stuff to get any kind of power, and I mean crazy as in stuff that the avg Joe will just never be able to duplicate on his street car. (big compression 12:1 and higher, 5 valve engines)
etc etc
Nah, their 2l turbo motors aren't actually making that much power compared to say the folks drag racing the same motors. The advantage is the REALLY close ratios, and quick shifting without having to take your hands off the wheel, of an electronically controlled sequential tranny. Also the active handling computers that will electronically control ABS and differentials when it feels the car getting out of control is a part where the big factory teams can dump big money.bcd said:also subi is going to be in trouble
i like the turbos too. it just sounds liek rally to hear the lag/popoff.
i guess a turbo 2L has to have a fance tranny to take the power.
IMHO... let them go crazy with the motors (or at least keep the same rules) but cut back on the electronics that really aid to the human side of the sport. ie... electronically controlled tranny's and handling computers. Make them shift and crash on their own!!!
Subaru is going to be in trouble with regards to the new rules because they pretty much say you can't have a boxer engine layout as they are specifying a transverse engine and single source transmission. I can hardly see Subaru justifying the costs to develop a transverse engine to stay in the WRC. If these rules go in without some changes, I could see them dropping WRC, re-evaluating their motorsports program and maybe entering some other form of competition - maybe we'll see a Baja in the Craftsman Truck series.
That is SO stupid, every AWD car on the market (that I can think of) does not meet that requirement.BillT said:
Unless they just want a bunch of FWD, and RWD competing, or EVER worse someone like Sub will spend BIG $ and develop an intergral (sp?) tranny and xfercase. That will really bring the gap back to reality.
I don't like the non turbo thing, Why not they just allow only certain mods to stock vehicles?
This rule will allow me to have a faster car than these guys and much more versitility as far as technology!
This rule will allow me to have a faster car than these guys and much more versitility as far as technology!
They do have those classes especially in SCCA. This thread kinda went off track. SCCA has a bunch of "stock" and modified classes. However in world class racing, like WRC, you cannot be limited to "stock" cars + modification, that would just stifle the actual technology that comes out of racing.Motionboy2 said:
The stability control that you see in some of the newer cars is a direct result of Rally Racing technology. I am sure there are a ton of other examples(from many forms of motorsports), but I do not want to be wrong in guessing what they are specifically.
First you have to remember that while these WRC cars are based off of production cars, they are extensively modified so that other than some basic configurations, they really don't resemble their real world counterparts. Most of the current WRC competitors including Peugeot, Hyundai, and Citroen already have a transverse layout (I believe Mitsubishi, Skoda and Ford do as well, but I haven't bothered to look it up) so they won't be affected. Hopefully, these proposed regulations were purposely extreme so that they can meet in some kind of more reasonable middle ground.
god damn, i leave for 3 days and theres been a ton of rally/car related topics, but anyway.
this is bad news, i was under the impression that rally was really growing in the US, i hope things turn out well with a new governing body/association.
About the world rally situation, the companies seem to be going through quite a tough period, but i dont think 2L non-turbo engines are the answer, but i do agree with the removal of a lot of electronic aids and extemly expensive technologies, for example the insane "flappy paddle" sequential transmitions which alone cost around £75,000 each. they could also really cut down on price by dropping a good few rallies from the calender, with each rally costing teams an average of £70,000.
but i'm sure they could cut the price of the cars by at least half without badly harming the sport, cutting the enormous costs of the cars(currently close to £500,000) could even encourage other manufacturers to compete.
i cant see subaru dropping there rally team, its part of there identiti, its who they are and i'm sure it is part of the reason why imprezas are so successful, i think it would cause them more harm and expense in the long run to drop the team than keep it.
things are actually not as bad as they seem i think, i think its just a rough period it happens in every sport, with the return of skoda and possibly mitsubishi hopefully things will pick up again.
this is bad news, i was under the impression that rally was really growing in the US, i hope things turn out well with a new governing body/association.
About the world rally situation, the companies seem to be going through quite a tough period, but i dont think 2L non-turbo engines are the answer, but i do agree with the removal of a lot of electronic aids and extemly expensive technologies, for example the insane "flappy paddle" sequential transmitions which alone cost around £75,000 each. they could also really cut down on price by dropping a good few rallies from the calender, with each rally costing teams an average of £70,000.
but i'm sure they could cut the price of the cars by at least half without badly harming the sport, cutting the enormous costs of the cars(currently close to £500,000) could even encourage other manufacturers to compete.
i cant see subaru dropping there rally team, its part of there identiti, its who they are and i'm sure it is part of the reason why imprezas are so successful, i think it would cause them more harm and expense in the long run to drop the team than keep it.
things are actually not as bad as they seem i think, i think its just a rough period it happens in every sport, with the return of skoda and possibly mitsubishi hopefully things will pick up again.
While rallying is part of Subaru's identity, they only make boxer engines and I can see it costing them a fortune to either turn one sideways and/or develop a transverse mounted in-line 4 cylinder engine. I don't know if Subaru can make a business case for doing either of those as they most likely wouldn't have any real world applications for them. Maybe they'll compromise and just get rid of the trick transmissions and differentials and maybe require more stock pieces in the car.
i also got this email about rally america getting hte scca perf raly program
Chris, don't make any quick decisions. SCCA and Rally America are
negotiating a hand-off of the entire PerformanceRally program. If they
can come to terms, and if R/A can arrange good insurance, then the 2005
season will happen as planned, both Club and Pro. In the beginning, all
rules and procedures will remain as they were with SCCA. Gradually,
things may change as the new "owners" get their feet wet.
R/A is thinking (remember, nothing is cast in stone, yet) of giving a $25
(?) discount to any SCCA member who enters their rallies. So you might as
well remain a member...enter 3 events and your SCCA membership is free!
I would not be surprised if R/A "recognizes" SCCA licenses, and delays
issuing their own...so SCCA might continue to issue PerformanceRally
licenses for a while. That would relieve R/A of a large paperwork chore
that they are not ready for as we speak. I believe that SCCA and R/A will
be working closely together to make sure that the transition goes
smoothly. After all, R/A was formed by some of the best SCCA competitors
and organizers, who all want it to succeed. And SCCA is not "dumping" the
program....they are reacting to an ultimatum from their insurer. SCCA
wants the program to continue its current success, so they will be
working hard to make the changeover as seamless as possible.
The Stewards have been discussing some rules changes that would make the
program even safer. With R/A's focus on rally alone, and the bureaucrats
fewer, rules changes (especially those affecting safety) will be easier
to implement. Maybe when we get them all in place, the sport will become
safe enough that the insurers will see that we are no worse than any
other motorsport, and we may go back....a few years down the road.
I look forward to seeing you in Paris.
Sasha Lanz
Deputy ClubRally Steward
Southwest Division, SCCA
Chris, don't make any quick decisions. SCCA and Rally America are
negotiating a hand-off of the entire PerformanceRally program. If they
can come to terms, and if R/A can arrange good insurance, then the 2005
season will happen as planned, both Club and Pro. In the beginning, all
rules and procedures will remain as they were with SCCA. Gradually,
things may change as the new "owners" get their feet wet.
R/A is thinking (remember, nothing is cast in stone, yet) of giving a $25
(?) discount to any SCCA member who enters their rallies. So you might as
well remain a member...enter 3 events and your SCCA membership is free!
I would not be surprised if R/A "recognizes" SCCA licenses, and delays
issuing their own...so SCCA might continue to issue PerformanceRally
licenses for a while. That would relieve R/A of a large paperwork chore
that they are not ready for as we speak. I believe that SCCA and R/A will
be working closely together to make sure that the transition goes
smoothly. After all, R/A was formed by some of the best SCCA competitors
and organizers, who all want it to succeed. And SCCA is not "dumping" the
program....they are reacting to an ultimatum from their insurer. SCCA
wants the program to continue its current success, so they will be
working hard to make the changeover as seamless as possible.
The Stewards have been discussing some rules changes that would make the
program even safer. With R/A's focus on rally alone, and the bureaucrats
fewer, rules changes (especially those affecting safety) will be easier
to implement. Maybe when we get them all in place, the sport will become
safe enough that the insurers will see that we are no worse than any
other motorsport, and we may go back....a few years down the road.
I look forward to seeing you in Paris.
Sasha Lanz
Deputy ClubRally Steward
Southwest Division, SCCA
personally no, but i do have a few buddies that have very rally inspired cars.mack said:
my buddies MK2 escort RS2000.
for the last year i have been planning to get a peugeot 205 gti and turning it into a rally car for general messing about in, and if finances permitted entering a series called the 205 challenge, but as always finacial problems have gotten in the way of that, but i havnt abandoned the idea its just on hold for now.
for anybody that is intrested
these are a few pics and vids of a the colin mcrae forest stages rally a couple of months back, the white metro 6r4 is Colin McRae himself, his dad and brother are in Group N white with red striped imprezas
http://www.dundeecruise.com/galleries/events/mcraerally/
I'd like to see a Team's budget - how much does the car cost? How much does a crew and all transporters cost? Usually the actually car is the cheapest part of racing.
WRC may be different, but for a while I was convinced I could afford to race GP125. The bikes are cheap enough, its just the tires, top-ends, race fees, track time, hotel rooms, transport cost, spares..etc that make it unrealistic for me.
WRC may be different, but for a while I was convinced I could afford to race GP125. The bikes are cheap enough, its just the tires, top-ends, race fees, track time, hotel rooms, transport cost, spares..etc that make it unrealistic for me.
I don't know what the budgets are like, but I've read that the ProDrive prepped Subaru WRC rally cars cost around $500k each.
I drive a WRX wagon - perfect car for getting to and from the trails.
I drive a WRX wagon - perfect car for getting to and from the trails.