[binary visions]

I'm looking to replace my girlfriend's ancient mountain bike with something that will be more comfortable for her on the road. She's very athletic and has a goal of doing a century, maybe next year. She has extremely limited time on bikes of any kind.

So, I'm now shopping but frankly, I haven't the foggiest idea about road bikes and was hoping for some input.

I want to keep this inexpensive because she may end up not liking road riding as much as she thinks she will. I think my top end is around $600 - like I said, really inexpensive.

I was peeking at these:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/grand_record_x.htm

Or, less expensive, these:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/galaxy_al_xi_sc3.htm

I'm not sure where the sweet spot is, though, where we're getting a good bang for the buck. Also, is this totally stupid to be shopping without her being able to sit on them? I can size roughly based on her inseam and she's not experienced enough to know what she really likes/wants, so I'm assuming I have some flexibility there by tweaking with different stem sizes or moving the saddle or whatever.

Thanks!

Anyone who knows that she posts on here occasionally, I have quietly removed her ability to view this forum so my shopping stays undiscovered

 

[Bicyclist]

That Motobecane looks like a pretty good deal overall, they offer really good value especially when you consider the parts you get for the money. I'm not a big fan of the paired spoke wheels but other than that it looks solid (edit: looks like it actually might not come with the wheels pictured on the yellow bike, so that's good). The Mercier doesn't look terrible but in terms of cost/value I think the Motobecane looks better. One thing to remember is all the peripheral equipment costs add up quick - shorts, shoes, helmet, seat bag, cages, bottles, C02, etc., so make sure you don't spend all of your money on the bike if she isn't going to want to invest in some equipment.

As far as sizing goes, as long as the standover is OK you can pretty much play with saddle height and stem length to get the fit in the right neighborhood...the main thing is going to be head tube height in my opinion for sizing. I.e. you can't make a 50 as low as you could a 48. As long as you are close one way or the other it shouldn't be a huge issue, but maybe you could take her to a LBS and see about just standing over a couple bikes? Remember that women have shorter torsos (typically) than men so if you get a bike that's not women's specific you might have to lean towards a smaller size so the top tube length is in the right ballpark. Anyways, looks like either way you won't be going horribly wrong or anything but the parts and fit/finish of the Motobecane might be worth springing for - and the resale will probably be better if she decides road riding isn't her thing. Just my .02 for now, hope it helps!

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

I faced the same dilema a week ago.

When all was said and done, I had to take my wife to be fitted.......

 

[loco-gringo]

Not saying this because I sell bikes, but go to a shop. A road bike has a very static position that will see tons of repetition. Fit is paramount. I am also not a fan of Bikesdirect kind of bikes. They cost the right amount, but there is no comparison in a $600 bike from them and a $700 Specialized or Trek bike. The components are often better, but the frames and various sundries leave things begging to be different. I'd go so far as calling some of them garbage. If you have a friend that can help with sizing, great. I can't be more serious about consulting someone on fit. If the bike is the wrong size, well, it's just simply the wrong size. Keep that in mind.

 

[loco-gringo]

As far as sizing goes, as long as the standover is OK you can pretty much play with saddle height and stem length to get the fit in the right neighborhood...the main thing is going to be head tube height in my opinion for sizing. I.e. you can't make a 50 as low as you could a 48. As long as you are close one way or the other it shouldn't be a huge issue, but maybe you could take her to a LBS and see about just standing over a couple bikes? Remember that women have shorter torsos (typically) than men so if you get a bike that's not women's specific you might have to lean towards a smaller size so the top tube length is in the right ballpark. Anyways, looks like either way you won't be going horribly wrong or anything but the parts and fit/finish of the Motobecane might be worth springing for - and the resale will probably be better if she decides road riding isn't her thing. Just my .02 for now, hope it helps!

His .02 is exactly that. The reach (cockpit) will be the most important. Obviously standover matters, but the reach is where you make the most impact. Think of taking a road trip cross country with your car seat stuck in the wrong place. Same thing to me. He is right about torso length though.

 

[sanjuro]

I think you should buy an used road bike. If you find the right deal, the wear is almost negligible, unlike a mountain bike, but the deprecation is the same.

As for the Moto-Bacons, everyone thinks of them as part hangers, crappy frames and good parts.

Frankly, if your g/f is going to ride it once or twice a month, then it probably is a good deal, plus it is nice to give a new not used gift.

But my biggest concern with any no-name bicycle is the carbon fork. I've seen some weird things with generic carbon forks, like flexing steerer tubes. While the chances of it snapping are small, the more you ride, the most likely it will happen.

 

[Banshee Rider]

Not saying this because I sell bikes, but go to a shop. A road bike has a very static position that will see tons of repetition. Fit is paramount. I am also not a fan of Bikesdirect kind of bikes. They cost the right amount, but there is no comparison in a $600 bike from them and a $700 Specialized or Trek bike. The components are often better, but the frames and various sundries leave things begging to be different. I'd go so far as calling some of them garbage. If you have a friend that can help with sizing, great. I can't be more serious about consulting someone on fit. If the bike is the wrong size, well, it's just simply the wrong size. Keep that in mind.

Very solid advice. I couldn't put it better without repeating key points.

 

[binary visions]

Thanks for the feedback. I was hoping to do this more surreptitiously but I do understand the fit aspects and it was why I asked, so thanks for reinforcing that.

Some thoughts in no particular order:

- I have called multiple shops in the area and nobody is carrying road bikes in her size for under $850... and then I pay tax. I'm really not willing to spend almost a thousand dollars on a "first bike" type of purchase. If she gets into it, sure, no problem, but this is feeling out a new hobby. Maybe I'll call the local shop in NH where we'll be visiting for the holidays and see if they have anything.

- Totally understand the mail-order stuff. My pick of the Motobecane was specifically because I've heard good things about the frames and know a couple people who have ridden them hard. I expect it's just like mountain bikes- some of the mail-order frames are crap, some are fine.

- I'd love to buy used but am hesitant mostly because if I buy myself a used bike, I accept the risks inherent in doing that. If it comes damaged, if it fails in the first week, if the seller jerks me around, all of those things. Buying as a gift means if I give her a used bike and it fails in the first week... Plus we're back to the fitting thing. Also, she's tiny and I have had a hard time finding used road bikes in her size that aren't expensive.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I'll keep hunting for a local shop with something in my price range. I have a really hard time bringing her in for a fitting and then buying online. I typically shop online but I don't like abusing certain aspects of the LBS and then giving my business to online shops. So I can only really do the local fitting if we can find the bike there, IMO.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Buy one of these

That is, if she can ride a 54.

If she's on the shorter side;

http://www.masibikes.com/bellissima/partenza-bellissima/

Masi is Haro's road line. They have the best geometry right now in the low end (angles and offsets scale across sizes, etc). Don't get sucked into a "womens" bike. It's marketing bull****. They are really killing it at the lower price points with things like bars that scale in width, bars that don't have a stupid bend, and all the other stuff that makes someone like me happy instead of furious.

Most bike shop "fits" suck. Some are dangerous. Find the shop that employs the oldest, crustiest dude possible and ask him for sizing advice.

Where are you in NC right now? Where will you be in NH?

I can give you recommendations for good shops in both regions that won't screw you and are competent.

 

[Heisenberg]

Not saying this because I sell bikes, but go to a shop. A road bike has a very static position that will see tons of repetition. Fit is paramount. I am also not a fan of Bikesdirect kind of bikes. They cost the right amount, but there is no comparison in a $600 bike from them and a $700 Specialized or Trek bike. The components are often better, but the frames and various sundries leave things begging to be different. I'd go so far as calling some of them garbage. If you have a friend that can help with sizing, great. I can't be more serious about consulting someone on fit. If the bike is the wrong size, well, it's just simply the wrong size. Keep that in mind.

Truth. Especially at the lower end of the spectrum, the BD bikes are spec'd with some downright sketchy control parts, awful boat anchor wheels, and mismatched drivetrains (but at least we can say it has 105, right?). Personally I'd avoid them - they've got a pretty poor customer service reputation, their house frames are of mediocre quality, their resale value sucks (in case she doesn't like road riding after all), and they're really not that great of a deal.

Thanks for the feedback. I was hoping to do this more surreptitiously but I do understand the fit aspects and it was why I asked, so thanks for reinforcing that.

Some thoughts in no particular order:

- I have called multiple shops in the area and nobody is carrying road bikes in her size for under $850... and then I pay tax. I'm really not willing to spend almost a thousand dollars on a "first bike" type of purchase. If she gets into it, sure, no problem, but this is feeling out a new hobby. Maybe I'll call the local shop in NH where we'll be visiting for the holidays and see if they have anything.

- Totally understand the mail-order stuff. My pick of the Motobecane was specifically because I've heard good things about the frames and know a couple people who have ridden them hard. I expect it's just like mountain bikes- some of the mail-order frames are crap, some are fine.

- I'd love to buy used but am hesitant mostly because if I buy myself a used bike, I accept the risks inherent in doing that. If it comes damaged, if it fails in the first week, if the seller jerks me around, all of those things. Buying as a gift means if I give her a used bike and it fails in the first week... Plus we're back to the fitting thing. Also, she's tiny and I have had a hard time finding used road bikes in her size that aren't expensive.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I'll keep hunting for a local shop with something in my price range. I have a really hard time bringing her in for a fitting and then buying online. I typically shop online but I don't like abusing certain aspects of the LBS and then giving my business to online shops. So I can only really do the local fitting if we can find the bike there, IMO.

Sizing is iffy. The key to buying online is to get the correct frame size, as everything else is nominally easy to swap out. Buying from one of the more high-end online shops (like RealCyclist/Bonktown and Competitive) will give you the luxury of being able to exchange the bike if the frame size is totally off. You could utilize the sizing calculator on CC to get a good idea of what kind of frame size you should be looking at, but if she gets very serious about riding paying a local shop for a fitting would probably be a good move.

I'd suggest trolling Bonktown for this to come up:
http://www.realcyclist.com/look-cycles-566-shimano-105-road-bike

It's a little out of your price range right now (and still a ripping deal), but once it hits BT I'd imagine it'll be between $700-800. Very solid parts spec, great return/warranty policy, high quality full carbon frame, and a brand with a lot of resale value.

All that said, personally, I'd buy her a used bike. I bought my ex-girlfriend a used steel Lemond something or other from the early 2000's locally for $400 a few years back with a decent parts spec (full Veloce, solid wheels, and name-brand control parts). She ended up not really getting into road riding, but the hit to the wallet wasn't astronomical, I could've sold it for the price I paid, and she still rides it as a commuter to this day.

 

[loco-gringo]

Suspect Device is wrong about women's fit. For the right woman, it's great. This is mostly true for smaller women. Believe it or not, women do have a different physical make up than men do. Hence the need for WSD bikes. You wouldn't buy a man's bra for her, would you???

 

[SuspectDevice]

Suspect Device is wrong about women's fit. For the right woman, it's great. This is mostly true for smaller women. Believe it or not, women do have a different physical make up than men do. Hence the need for WSD bikes. You wouldn't buy a man's bra for her, would you???

There are plenty of men who have similar anatomy to some ladies, and vice versa. The right fit is the right fit. It has nothing to do with shrink it and pink it.
There is no need for special bikes for women. There is a need for bikes that fit people.
If you want to believe marketing BS, that's great. That is exactly what they want you to do.

Many companies build their "women's" models completely wrong doing, sh*t like making the seatube steeper when it should be shallower, making the headtube so long as to render the bike unrideable and generally turning the damn things into foul handling turds that are specced with parts that make wild and unfounded assumptions about how women ride, what they want or how they're shaped

Most bike companies don't even bother to put the shifters in the right place on their bikes. You can't expect morons like that to have even half a clue when it comes to bike design. A bike that fits properly fits properly and handles properly. That is up to the end user.

 

[loco-gringo]

There are plenty of men who have similar anatomy to some ladies, and vice versa. The right fit is the right fit. It has nothing to do with shrink it and pink it.
There is no need for special bikes for women. There is a need for bikes that fit people.
If you want to believe marketing BS, that's great. That is exactly what they want you to do.

Many companies build their "women's" models completely wrong doing, sh*t like making the seatube steeper when it should be shallower, making the headtube so long as to render the bike unrideable and generally turning the damn things into foul handling turds that are specced with parts that make wild and unfounded assumptions about how women ride, what they want or how they're shaped

Most bike companies don't even bother to put the shifters in the right place on their bikes. You can't expect morons like that to have even half a clue when it comes to bike design. A bike that fits properly fits properly and handles properly. That is up to the end user.

I'll agree with most of that. I have sold WSD bikes to men. Shifters, however, are preference. Sure there is a good general reference, but I adjust those during a fit. Your opinions on geometry are just that though, opinions. There are plenty of bikes I don't like, but not everyone fits on an early 80s euro style bike. Sorry there has been any progression in the bike industry. I guess it just left a few people behind. I guess when it did, they felt the need to bash progress so they had something to talk about.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I'll agree with most of that. I have sold WSD bikes to men. Shifters, however, are preference. Sure there is a good general reference, but I adjust those during a fit. Your opinions on geometry are just that though, opinions. There are plenty of bikes I don't like, but not everyone fits on an early 80s euro style bike. Sorry there has been any progression in the bike industry. I guess it just left a few people behind. I guess when it did, they felt the need to bash progress so they had something to talk about.

Dude.
I build and sell a few hundred ultralight sloping toptube aluminum road bikes every year. I'm not exactly a luddite.
Proper bike fit and proper bike design isn't some sort of black art. There is the right way and there is the wrong way. There is no room for compromise, there is no room for improvement.

I doesn't matter what a bike looks like or what it is made out of. Unless the hands, feet and butt are in the right place and the bike has the right amount of wheelbase and the right amount of trail it is wrong. It will not be comfortable, it will not handle well. It is not the right bike for the end user. That hasn't ever changed, and it never will.



True Story.

 

[loco-gringo]

Dude.
I build and sell a few hundred ultralight sloping toptube aluminum road bikes every year. I'm not exactly a luddite.
Proper bike fit and proper bike design isn't some sort of black art. There is the right way and there is the wrong way. There is no room for compromise, there is no room for improvement.

I doesn't matter what a bike looks like or what it is made out of. Unless the hands, feet and butt are in the right place and the bike has the right amount of wheelbase and the right amount of trail it is wrong. It will not be comfortable, it will not handle well. It is not the right bike for the end user. That hasn't ever changed, and it never will.



True Story.

I understand what you do. I also understand that various people have different needs for geometries. Your "it's only right if I say so" attitude is what I question. There is room for improvement. I haven't ridden your frames, and would likely get along great on one, but people have different needs. You are right about hands, feet and butt being in the right spot. Everyone fills that gap differently. That is the reason for different geometries.

BV asked for help - we have all provided a little of that. The fact of the matter is, he needs to put her on some bikes to get the right one. You and I may not agree with what she likes, but if she likes it, great. That is what we need to agree on.

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Suspect Device is wrong about women's fit. For the right woman, it's great. This is mostly true for smaller women. Believe it or not, women do have a different physical make up than men do. Hence the need for WSD bikes. You wouldn't buy a man's bra for her, would you???

My wife INSTANTLY recoginzed improved comfort on a WSD bike. We didn't even tell her what she was on, me and the shop guy just kept throwing bikes at her.

 

[binary visions]

I really don't think LG and SD are that far off from each other.

LG is saying that some WSD bikes have the right tweaks in geometry that they are more comfortable for some women. SD is saying that some WSD bikes suck and it often doesn't matter - if a bike fits well, it fits well, regardless of being painted in pastel and having a feminine model name.

Those things are not contrary to each other.

Appreciate the advice guys, I'll be calling the shop I used to frequent in NH to see what his price ranges are. There is still a budgetary sticking point here that may preclude me from shopping locally. At least NH = no tax.

 

[binary visions]

Incidentally, I'm still not entirely convinced she wouldn't be better off with a lightweight 29" mountain bike for better flexibility, but finding something light for low money is a difficult proposition and it's still such a niche product.

 

[sanjuro]

There are plenty of men who have similar anatomy to some ladies, and vice versa. The right fit is the right fit. It has nothing to do with shrink it and pink it.
There is no need for special bikes for women. There is a need for bikes that fit people.
If you want to believe marketing BS, that's great. That is exactly what they want you to do.

Many companies build their "women's" models completely wrong doing, sh*t like making the seatube steeper when it should be shallower, making the headtube so long as to render the bike unrideable and generally turning the damn things into foul handling turds that are specced with parts that make wild and unfounded assumptions about how women ride, what they want or how they're shaped

Most bike companies don't even bother to put the shifters in the right place on their bikes. You can't expect morons like that to have even half a clue when it comes to bike design. A bike that fits properly fits properly and handles properly. That is up to the end user.

I have seen a lot of F'ed up woman's designs. My least two favorite are the Terry's with a 26" front wheel and a 700c rear (btw, I do advocate 26" wheels for anyone under 5'), and Santa Cruz mtb bikes, whose Juliana is the same exact dimensions as the men's Superlight.

However, for women between 5' and 5'5", I definitely recommend a quality woman's bike over a man's.

While most men range between 5'6" and 6", women range are about 5'2" to 5'6". The better women's midrange lines will have 3 sizes to accommodate that range. A lot of bad ones only have 2 (Small and XS).

 

[Heisenberg]

I'd suggest trolling for this to come up:
http:///look-cycles-566-shimano-105-road-bike

.

Those sold quickly...as in, one day quickly.

 

[binary visions]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I ended up visiting the local shop on Christmas Eve that I used to buy from in NH while I'm here. Called the guy earlier this month and he told me what inventory he had.

Jenn got to try some bikes and ended up on a 51cm 2010 Specialized Dolce Sport. She found it to be super comfortable, it fits her very well, and has a decent component spec - and because I've bought several bikes from this guy, he gave me a great price. Less than anywhere online. Tax free NH, of course.

She's never gotten on a bike and found it comfortable, so for her to say it was comfortable was saying a whole lot, and she was raving about it. Plus, let's face it, color/looks are important and this one is a nicely sleek black/grey/silver instead of so many womens' bikes which are pink and purple.

Appreciate everyone's input. There's just no substitute for actually walking into a bike shop and getting fitted.

 

[loco-gringo]

Good job man. I was hoping you would go that route. Glad they helped you out. I've never been a fan of Sora before, but those actually shift pretty well. She'll get lots of good use out of that.

 

[SuspectDevice]

My ex's first bike was a Trek with Sora.
2 years later her 2nd bike was a custom I.F.

 

[binary visions]

Good job man. I was hoping you would go that route. Glad they helped you out. I've never been a fan of Sora before, but those actually shift pretty well. She'll get lots of good use out of that.

The guy actually offered me a screaming deal on the same frame with 105 components. However, I didn't think it was the right place to spend extra money - Jenn isn't even used to shifting much, since her current bike is just beyond tuning and half the gears don't shift right.

I'll upgrade the drivetrain in pieces if she starts getting to that point.

^ God forbid. She was picking out her aesthetically favorite frames online at one point and decided her favorite was some small company I hadn't heard of, producing a $3500 carbon frame. I haven't showed her the custom builders yet, so hush up

 

[splat]

My ex's first bike was a Trek with Sora.
2 years later her 2nd bike was a custom I.F.

Isn't that A common occurrence ? I know quite a few People ( including myself back in the 80's ) who bought a Low end Road/mt Bike and when they realized they loved it bought a high end beast a few years later ?

 

[Banshee Rider]

Isn't that A common occurrence ? I know quite a few People ( including myself back in the 80's ) who bought a Low end Road/mt Bike and when they realized they loved it bought a high end beast a few years later ?

Very common. It's the primary reason I don't try to upsell first timers beyond their means. Creating a positive experience for them the first time around builds trust for the future purchase(s) that are worth much much more. The entry level road bikes work pretty stellar, and there's less buyers remorse over the price, allowing them to focus on getting stoked on the sport. They have a whole lifetime to be jaded over high-end parts, no need to take them to the cleaners for a short term profit