That's what I said when the gray XTR came out with it's new crank/BB setup... how wrong I was.Originally posted by sub6
yeah, I seen 'em and I think it's a load of proprietary crap.
Yeah, but if, say, Rocky Mountain designs a bike to take that hub, they'll probably do away with the derailleur hangers. So you are then locked into using ONE choice of rear hub. ONE choice of rear derailleur. And every time you ding a rotor, you have ONE choice of a replacement. Shimano hubs suck ass, I'm sure the derailluer is quite nice but extremely expensive, and ditto on the rotor. I'd rather have the interchangeability, personally...Originally posted by ohio
and I can't think of anything better for derailleurs (other than internal gears) than getting rid of dropouts... a 70 year old design that has been nothing but a plague for mountain bikes.
The Saint uses angular contact roller bearings, not loose balls like the XT/LX/deores, and extra pawls and more contact points.Originally posted by sub6
Shimano hubs suck ass
that's cool, some of the initial reports I read in Velonews and the like were saying they used cups and cones.Originally posted by ohio
The Saint uses angular contact roller bearings, not loose balls like the XT/LX/deores, and extra pawls and more contact points.
That would suck exponentially, if true.Originally posted by sub6
that's cool, some of the initial reports I read in Velonews and the like were saying they used cups and cones.
Can't argue with that...Originally posted by Tenchiro
I just think the Saint group is ugly.
You would have to pay shimano to use it if shimano have the legal means to stop you (patents etc.).Originally posted by srf
Does Shimano actively prevent people from using designs like Octalink, or do companies just not want to follow suit?
true, but if you put a patent on something wouldn't you want to get paid for someone else making money off of something you designed.......Originally posted by D_D
You would have to pay shimano to use it if shimano have the legal means to stop you (patents etc.).
When the alternative standard is just as good as the shimano one (isis) why bother paying shimano when you can use the other one for free.
Originally posted by D_D
You would have to pay shimano to use it if shimano have the legal means to stop you (patents etc.).
Like Specialized do with their Horst link. And Manitou with their twin piston chamber, and 5th Element with their shock etc etc etc.
If you pay the bucks in time for research and development to build a better mousetrap and pay for the patent, there's no problem in asking for a licence fee or refusing to allow others to use the design.
Yes but why would people bother when there is an alternative open standard that is arguably better.Originally posted by indieboy
true, but if you put a patent on something wouldn't you want to get paid for someone else making money off of something you designed.......
i'm speaking in general terms, not just on the Isis vs Octalink, b/c honestly i'd rather have isis cranks over the octalink for several reasons.Originally posted by D_D
Yes but why would people bother when there is an alternative open standard that is arguably better.
I know that Shimano is allowing other companies to make cranks (blackspire is one). I'm not sure if Blackspire pays them. I also know that they're not allowing anyone to make bbs. How, I'm not sure. But you'll never see an octalink bb made by anyone other than the big S.Originally posted by srf
Does Shimano actively prevent people from using designs like Octalink, or do companies just not want to follow suit?
It's pretty easy to argue that they're protecting it because they don't think others can make parts to their standards, and it would cheapen the patent.Originally posted by Incubus
Shimano does the exact opposite. Find me a non-shimano Octalink bb.
Originally posted by ohio
It's pretty easy to argue that they're protecting it because they don't think others can make parts to their standards, and it would cheapen the patent.
You don't see Chris King licensing the ring drive, do you?
You see plenty of the cranks because they are willing to license it for a lower price than the BB. Could be that making the cranks is easier so they trust more people to do it. If it were about money, it would make more sense for them to just license the BB, as I bet they make more money off the cranks than a BB.
This is true to some extent. If it were entirely true, DH pros wouldn't need 8" of travel front and rear. Or XC pros wouldn't need Carbon fiber bits and pieces.Originally posted by Devoracer77
Here's what I've been taught about parts and bikes:
#1, it doesn't matter what bike or compnets you ride, its the rider, not the bike
if you are truely a devo racer and if john kemp just read what you posted ONLINE about your sponsors products i'm quite positive you'd hear an ear full......Originally posted by Devoracer77
Here's what I've been taught about parts and bikes:
#1, it doesn't matter what bike or compnets you ride, its the rider, not the bike
#2, Shimano produces everything themselves exclusivly because it's a no brainer that if you have a complete XTR group produced with the same machines in the same factories, it will work flawlessly. For shimano to give the rights to other companies to produce a Octalink BB for example, they would risk allowing other companies to screw up on the production, and in return, give the OCtalink BB system a bad rep. If you have full 2003 XTR, and nothing else, its going to work better than a bike with a XTR rear derraliur, LX cranks, and XT shifters, and so and so forth. It would work better because when the skunkworks testers design and test the products, they are usually doing so with the entire grouppo. Its a very simple concept. Thats why Sram needs to create a full grouppo, because the Sram chain isn't made for Shimano chainrings, or any others really. And the Shimano chain isn't made for a sram cassette. THey will all work together, just not as smoothly.
nico only used like 5 or 6 inches, if it's good enough for him it's good enough for the rest of youOriginally posted by Incubus
This is true to some extent. If it were entirely true, DH pros wouldn't need 8" of travel front and rear. Or XC pros wouldn't need Carbon fiber bits and pieces.
In the end, it is about the ride. But some frames and/or components most certainly give a competitive advantage.
I am a devo racer, and I love Sram's stuff. Their XO stuff in particular is awesome. My comments were not ment a demeaning or a negative way, I'm just stating my opinion on what they should be doing. I don't know how that would result in a earfull from Kemp. If it came across that I don't like Sram, thats not true, just for the record.Originally posted by indieboy
if you are truely a devo racer and if john kemp just read what you posted ONLINE about your sponsors products i'm quite positive you'd hear an ear full......
ahhaha i was only messin w/ you dude, it's so easy to mess w/ the devo kids. you guys have to walk on eggshells pretty much w/ your sponsor stuff. is this adam or which one you little punks is this? but i hope you like the sram stuff b/c that's all you guys get to rideOriginally posted by Devoracer77
I am a devo racer, and I love Sram's stuff. Their XO stuff in particular is awesome. My comments were not ment a demeaning or a negative way, I'm just stating my opinion on what they should be doing. I don't know how that would result in a earfull from Kemp. If it came across that I don't like Sram, thats not true, just for the record.
haha....no worries man. No this isn't Adam, he doesn't race for devo anymore. I'm a new addition from Oregon. Today was also only my second ride ever on sram, and so far, so good. Who are you? Junior, pro, what?Originally posted by indieboy
ahhaha i was only messin w/ you dude, it's so easy to mess w/ the devo kids. you guys have to walk on eggshells pretty much w/ your sponsor stuff. is this adam or which one you little punks is this? but i hope you like the sram stuff b/c that's all you guys get to ride
ohhhhhhhhhhhh you're darookz's buddy! he was telling me that one of his friends was racing for devo this year. but what's w/ adam, is he not a junior anymore? joey is probably still on the team though, he was pretty young. but no i'm not pro by anymeans, raced junior last 3 years and now having to race expert senior. race for Independent Fab. so hence the name but see ya at nationals yo i'll be in da back tihs year lol.Originally posted by Devoracer77
haha....no worries man. No this isn't Adam, he doesn't race for devo anymore. I'm a new addition from Oregon. Today was also only my second ride ever on sram, and so far, so good. Who are you? Junior, pro, what?
Yea me and rand (darookz) are pretty good friends. If you were talking about Adam Snyder, yes he is still racing for devo. Ithought you were talking about adam craig. Snyder is racin semi-pro this year. my sn is alexhodge7 if u wanna im me ever. peace outOriginally posted by indieboy
ohhhhhhhhhhhh you're darookz's buddy! he was telling me that one of his friends was racing for devo this year. but what's w/ adam, is he not a junior anymore? joey is probably still on the team though, he was pretty young. but no i'm not pro by anymeans, raced junior last 3 years and now having to race expert senior. race for Independent Fab. so hence the name but see ya at nationals yo i'll be in da back tihs year lol.
oh no, i know adam craig isn't racing for devo anymore. i'm glad he isn't, that boy needs some $$!!! wonder why john threw adam snyder in semi pro that class is a grave yard now.....Originally posted by Devoracer77
Yea me and rand (darookz) are pretty good friends. If you were talking about Adam Snyder, yes he is still racing for devo. Ithought you were talking about adam craig. Snyder is racin semi-pro this year. my sn is alexhodge7 if u wanna im me ever. peace out
DT Swiss has also announced that it will be making Hügi 240 hubs compatible with Shimano's Centre Lock disc brake mount. The new hubs come in at 136g (F) and 258g (R), 14g and 54g lighter than their XTR counterparts.
The Hugi 240s hubs feature the same stainless steel, quad-bearing system as standard Hugi 240 hubs. Shimano, Inc. licenses the Centre Lock rotor mounting system.