[jungle]

i just got a new DTswiss 440 hubs on MTX wheelset
the 440 rear hub comes with a Aluminium freewheel body
which the owners manual says to use either a
XTR, XT, Duraace or Ultegra cassette because of the Aluminium
freewheel body ?

How does the Sram Pg970 cassettes rate for Aluminium freewheel
body damage as opposed to the Shimano cassettes ?

Which cassette would rate better the Ultegra or pg970 ?

I would prefer to go Sram but not at the expense
of my freewheel

thanks in advance

 

[RaID]

im running the PG970 on my DT swiss hub

i managed to break one of the gears on my cassette, when i took the cassette off i sawlittle indentation on each of the contact points for all the gears. This were higher on the more used gears. This was due to the fact that the SRAM cassette is only riveted by one rivet, hence all the force isnt transmitted evenly into the freewheel body through all the contact points rather it is localised by the contact point of the gear in use.

Shimano cassettes on the other hand are riveted together by 3 rivets and the connection is much more rigid meaning a more uniform distribution of force across the freewheel.

Needless to say im still running the SRAM cassette and havent taken it off in a while so im not sure what the state of the freewheel is atm. Ill let you know when i pull it apart hopefully this weekend and post some pics of what i mean exactly.

When ill be replacing the cassette im going to go the shimano path because of the reason mentioned above

 

[Zark]

The 970 has individual steel cogs with spacers in between cogs & with pins holding the whole assembly together.
Under load in any gear the load will "dig" into that spot of the cassette body on an aluminum freehub body.

The spidered carrier on high end Shimano cassettes disperse the load over the entire width of the cassette body preventing the marks in your freehub body.

In other words get the Shimano cassette.

 

[Zark]

Hey look jungle, its your thread, only a page away!

 

[jonKranked]

are you really that worried about wearing out the splines on a cassette body? for DH i'd think that are more important things to worry about. just my $.02.

now if you had a titanium freehub body then i'd be a little more concerned (i have a hadley w/ ti freehub. i don't worry).

 

[jungle]

Are the Ti freewheel bodies softer than the Aluminium bodies ?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

now if you had a titanium freehub body then i'd be a little more concerned (i have a hadley w/ ti freehub. i don't worry).

???? That doesn't make any sense....

 

[Zutroy]

It'll be fine....as much as we like to think we're the most abusive guys on equipment, roadies beat cass alot harder than we do.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Are the Ti freewheel bodies softer than the Aluminium bodies ?

No.45

 

[jungle]

No.45

please explain ?

 

[evilbob]

I have had the problem you describe with SRAM cassets on alloy freehub bodies. If you want to run SRAM without the individule cogs digging in you need to run a PG990 casset. The cogs are rivited to an alloy casset body like XTR and XT cassets. I've been using them for about a year and a half now on Ringle alloy freehub bodies with zero probs. Plus you can get them with a red anodized casset body. You could also try the PG980, not red and about 5 grams more I think.

 

[Thrillkil]

Campagnolo is the answer

 

[RaID]

I have had the problem you describe with SRAM cassets on alloy freehub bodies. If you want to run SRAM without the individule cogs digging in you need to run a PG990 casset. The cogs are rivited to an alloy casset body like XTR and XT cassets. I've been using them for about a year and a half now on Ringle alloy freehub bodies with zero probs. Plus you can get them with a red anodized casset body. You could also try the PG980, not red and about 5 grams more I think.

the problem with the PG990 is it doesnt come in a tight ration like the PG960 12-26

 

[bizutch]

Glad i read this thread. I've got an I9 wheelset and mine has lots of those bite marks. But the local shop head said if I bought the higher end SRAMs that sit on a plastic casing, I wouldn't have that problem. He told me it was due to the mid range cassette my Demo 8 came with having a metal casing or sleeve or...whatever comes in direct contact with the freehub.
Edit: (So is he right or the guys above who are referring to the design being the issue).

In response to the one guy's question of "Why worry about marking it up?" I'm on my 3rd bike and one single rear wheel and the alloy freehub body is chewed. It's hard just to get a cassette on and off of it now. And I've got NO reason to upgrade from a I9 wheel.

 

[Udi]

Glad i read this thread. I've got an I9 wheelset and mine has lots of those bite marks. But the local shop head said if I bought the higher end SRAMs that sit on a plastic casing, I wouldn't have that problem. He told me it was due to the mid range cassette my Demo 8 came with having a metal casing or sleeve or...whatever comes in direct contact with the freehub.
Edit: (So is he right or the guys above who are referring to the design being the issue).

Nah, he's pretty much wrong.
Basically - lower end cassettes don't have a carrier for the cogs, each cog is seperate and goes all the way down to the freehub body where it has splines that mate with the freehub. The issue here is that the cog is quite thin, and combined with the fact that it is steel (which is harder than ti or alloy freehub bodies) allows each cog to rip into the freehub body when it is being used. Cassettes that fit this description include sram 970 and lower, shimano lx and lower.

Higher end cassettes have a seperate carrier for the larger cogs (where the most torque and therefore potential for damage is) so instead of the cog going down directly to the freehub body, it is mounted on a carrier along with a few other cogs (usually the carrier is aluminium to save weight). This way, the load is spread over a much larger surface area on the freehub body - stopping it getting torn into. Again, some examples are - Shimano XT, XTR, Dura-ace, Ultegra, Sram 980 and 990.

 

[bizutch]

so my Sunday Elite is coming with a 970 cassette so I can expect more bite marks...snot.

 

[jungle]

bizutch,

that's correct, you will get the bite marks with a pg970
as they are all individual cogs right down to the freewheel body
with clear orange plastic spacers,
It's a shame SRAM didn't make a pg990 in their road cassettes
in a 12-26,
Sram does however make a 11-32 and 11-34 in a pg990
with the read alloy spider to spread the load on the biggest 5
cogs like udi meantioned as well as higher end shimano cassettes

My DTswiss 440 hub owners manual also suggests using either
XTR/ XT/ Dura-ace/ Ultegra cassettes to solve this exact
problem of lower end cassettes chewing into the aluminium freewheel body

 

[RaID]

jungle do you know the price of a new freewheel for the 440
Im running a Dt Swiss Hugi hub which looks exactly the same as the 440.

From what ive been told theyre not exactly cheap

 

[jungle]

Raid,

I haven't priced them but can imagine they wouldn't be cheap
being DT Swiss
I'm trying to get a good cassette to start with so i hopefully
won't need to replace it sometime soon

cheers

 

[JRogers]

In response to the one guy's question of "Why worry about marking it up?" I'm on my 3rd bike and one single rear wheel and the alloy freehub body is chewed. It's hard just to get a cassette on and off of it now. And I've got NO reason to upgrade from a I9 wheel.

Yeah, it's not really a question of marking it up. Although this isn't as much of an issue with DH bikes (less ride time, less pedaling time, more maintenance), cassettes can actually get stuck on the freehub and be very difficult to remove.

 

[Udi]

jungle do you know the price of a new freewheel for the 440
Im running a Dt Swiss Hugi hub which looks exactly the same as the 440.

I priced it up back when I ran a Hugi FR... it was enticing to upgrade to the alloy freehub body and save 40-50g. I forget the exact figure but let me tell you it was a rip (and you could only buy it complete with bearings and spacers I think). AU150-200 if remember correctly... not worth it at all.

 

[RaID]

I priced it up back when I ran a Hugi FR... it was enticing to upgrade to the alloy freehub body and save 40-50g. I forget the exact figure but let me tell you it was a rip (and you could only buy it complete with bearings and spacers I think). AU150-200 if remember correctly... not worth it at all.

yeh im running the HugiFR

thats the sort of range i was expecting

whats the difference between the 440 Hugi FR from first look they look like the same hub?

 

[Udi]

Identical hub.
Just an aluminium freehub body instead of the stainless steel that the Hugi FR's had.

Personally I prefer the graphics on the old design too.

 

[RaID]

Identical hub.
Just an aluminium freehub body instead of the stainless steel that the Hugi FR's had.

Personally I prefer the graphics on the old design too.

crap that means that my hugi FR came with an aluminium freehub body since ive got the bite marks from the 970 cassette

thanks for the info

 

[Udi]

Nup, I doubt it. Stainless is a soft metal and WILL get bite marks as well.. I used to own a Hugi FR myself so know that for a fact. Not as bad as aluminium obviously, but happens nonetheless.

If the freehub body is silver, it's stainless. If it's black anodized then it's aluminium.... you can tell the difference just by picking up the freehub bodies in your hands if you have a 440 handy.

 

[RaID]

the marks on my cassette arent actually as bad as i though they will be, this is after about 11 months of use, i was expecting a lot worse considering they looked very similar about 8 months ago

 

[b1k3_r1d3r]

i dont know that looks pretty bad. the small spline has a bite about 1/2 through it on the 3 cog mark for the left. Seeing that i would advise ultegra or dura-ace to everyone. price to preplace free hub body its way more than the extra money you'll pay to run one of those cassettes

 

[RaID]

i dont know that looks pretty bad. the small spline has a bite about 1/2 through it on the 3 cog mark for the left. Seeing that i would advise ultegra or dura-ace to everyone. price to preplace free hub body its way more than the extra money you'll pay to run one of those cassettes

the larger bite mark is from snapping the 15T cog (which sits on the 3rd cog mark) due to clipping a pedal at full speed hence the extra wear

 

[julian_dh]

its very true about cheap cassettes chewing up your freehub body, my king hub got pretty mashed from a lower end shimano cassettes. ive found there higher end shimano road cassettes are the best out the dura ace's two largest cogs are ti, and its supposed to take longer to wear cause you will be in those gear most of the time just riding around.

i used to have the top end sram before the red spider, then i switched over to dura ace road, it seems to be lasting longer and its a ton lighter. not to mention i got it on sale for $60 american.

the problem with the sram, and this could potentially happen with any cassette, was the cogs popped some of their rivets off the carrier so i would get crazy ghost shifting when my derailur was setup perfect it took me a while to figure this out.

ive got 100% sram on my bike but i just like these cassettes better.