[jonKranked]

We agree!

That was what my wild speculation was about. You can see something else behind the swingarm, I suspect it is just the lower shock mount but I don't think anybody can tell from the picture. That was why I was asking if Transcend had actually seen the bike or talked to one of the guys behind it. I know Kevin well but I hadn't seen the design until today and was surprised to see what looks like a single pivot.

I can't wait to get a better look at it.

Werd! The more I think about it, and the history of the suspension designer involved, I am leaning towards it being another link. It would allow for a more rearward axle path I think.


Haha either way, I'm pumped to see that Evil is back in the game.

DW is hands down the busiest man in the industry.

I get really bored and my job and love to speculate. Keeps me entertained.

 

[NorthWest]

I would go against saying it is adjustable between freeride and downhill. This is going to be a DH machine!

I guess the real question now is to get a new Turner or the Evil?

I dig the adjustability of the bb between 13.78 and 14.25 and the HA 64 to 66. But mind you it's not infinitely adjustable if these adjustments are not separate!

humm... 64.75 HA 13.8 BB

 

[Bulldog]

Not too shabby.....

No floater of any type huh? So this is the budget DW bike for '09?

DWlink $$$ > Split pivot $$ > Delta $ - or does the price not follow the technology?

Is there even any "official" Split pivot bike out there (not Trek)? Or is that a squatters patent? From the website "Split Pivot will be available Worldwide in late 2007 and early 2008, details on brands and models to come soon. Prototypes are out there, keep your eyes peeled!"

 

[wicked cool]

its gunna be a bad scene when the dw cool-aid comes out.

 

[S.K.C.]

...was gonna start a new thread with to the link the the new EVIL site, but some of the internet police got their panties in a bunch, so I guess this is the place to be.

:biggrin:

Congratualtions to Kevin, Todd and the gang at Evil! I've known Todd for a while and met Kevin and rode with him last year - and that guy rips! Well done everyone!

The new rig looks BADASS!

:beerjam:

EDIT: Kev - I owe you for that night at the Open last year! All I remember is you feeding me beers everytime I put one down... brutal - couldn't even play quarters with the e.thirteen crew later that night. :biggrin:

 

[John P.]

BTW. Any info if the new evil is 09 or 2010 product?

If I had to guess, I'd say late '09 early '10. Having been down this exact same road before (with the prior incarnation of the actual company in question), going from finished drawings to a workable prototype is a colossal undertaking. Going from a working prototype to actual production? Fuggetaboudit.

--JP

 

[Bulldog]

...was gonna start a new thread with the link the the new EVIL site, but some of the internet police got their panties in a bunch, so I guess this is the place to be.

You mean the web links in page 2 of this thread?

 

[ElTORO]

So this is the budget DW bike for '09?

Budget + DW = My head just imploded.

2.5K easy!!

 

[S.K.C.]

You mean the web links in page 2 of this thread?

Yeah I saw that, but I wanted to have a thread title that was more specific: (ex. EVIL BIKES 2009 new website up) - something easier to search for in the archive, ya know?

 

[Prettym1k3]

My guess is something like $2,899, but I'd be happy if it were as low as $2,600.

 

[Steve M]

Well, roughly the same for the Sunday, right? He did the kinematics, although I think he stepped in a few times to help them with structure after their initial ****ups.

Pretty sure DW did the entire Sunday - you're thinking of the SGS I believe.

 

[Bulldog]

Yeah I saw that, but I wanted to have a thread title that was more specific: (ex. EVIL BIKES 2009 new website up) - something easier to search for in the archive, ya know?

Archive? This sh.t ain't leavin' page 1 for a long time if my guess is correct! LOL

 

[MDJ]

Well, roughly the same for the Sunday, right? He did the kinematics, although I think he stepped in a few times to help them with structure after their initial ****ups.

Now that kinematics has been used in two sentences in this thread, can someone translate that word into English?

 

[offtheedge]

Now that kinematics has been used in two sentences in this thread, can someone translate that word into English?

how things move.

 

[binary visions]

Now that kinematics has been used in two sentences in this thread, can someone translate that word into English?

Is your Google broken?

 

[Steve M]

Now that kinematics has been used in two sentences in this thread, can someone translate that word into English?

Kinematics refers to the controlled motion of something, without worrying about masses and forces (ie direction/speed/acceleration of motion only). In other words, linkage layouts, axle paths etc where the position/motion of the rear end is specifically designed to move in a certain way. The kinematics of the rear end are what determine the bike's dynamic response (dynamic = kinematic + masses, ie taking into account forces too) when you pedal or brake.

 

[OGRipper]

I deduced the following:

Never said it was right. Just that's what it looks like.

Speculation is fun, so I'll join, even though it's kinda pointless without more info or pics. Have you considered that what you are calling the main pivot is not the main pivot at all? Looks like other parts of the swingarm would bash into the down tube if your guess is correct. I'll guess the main pivot is at the high forward point of the swingarm, and what you are calling the main pivot is related to shock actuation or geometry adjustment...?

Meh, I don't know, I'm just bummed I couldn't get to Vegas this year.

 

[jonKranked]

Have you considered that what you are calling the main pivot is not the main pivot at all?

have you read the few posts I made after I posted that image?

 

[S.K.C.]

Archive? This sh.t ain't leavin' page 1 for a long time if my guess is correct! LOL

:biggrin:


For everyone's consideration, I have e-analyzed the following and labeled accordingly:

 

[Segunda]

Sorry... had to try

 

[sethimus]

dude, 403.17 KB for a 320×240 sized mini picture???

 

[zahgurim]

Hmmm...

That Revolt doesn't do much for me. With all the hype spouted about his previous suspension designs in regards to pedalling dynamics, I'm really really surprised this contraption is a single pivot. Adjustable, but still a single...
Was hoping for a split-pivot, to counter the adverse braking effects...

I've been waiting for the '09 frames to come out, looking for a longtravel trailbike. Something to pedal both up and down nicely, and able to toss about a bit, at speed.
Am curious about the Trek Remedy, but so far have to say I'm stoked on the Yeti 7 (split pivot as well) more than anything else.
Will wait and see what Sinister comes out with (the Passion/Poison patent was just granted), and keep my eyes peeled for others...

I guess we'll see what the other Evil frames are like, but so far... no sale. I'm done with single pivots, unless they come with floating brake mounts.

 

[eRod]

Hmmm...

That Revolt doesn't do much for me. With all the hype spouted about his previous suspension designs in regards to pedalling dynamics, I'm really really surprised this contraption is a single pivot. Adjustable, but still a single...
Was hoping for a split-pivot, to counter the adverse braking effects...

I've been waiting for the '09 frames to come out, looking for a longtravel trailbike. Something to pedal both up and down nicely, and able to toss about a bit, at speed.

sounds to me like you aren't looking for a race bike which is what the Revolt is. check out the pivot firebird. a friend of mine just rode it at the dirt demo, he said it was unreal. 7 point-ish but much lighter.

 

[CBJ]

And there is the Turner RMX too. Plenty of bike to make Mr. Zahgurim happy.

 

[Nagaredama]

...., but so far have to say I'm stoked on the Yeti 7 (split pivot as well) more than anything else....
W

Actually the Yeti 7 is not a Split Pivot/ABP design. The brake mount is on the chainstay.

 

[Jason4]

I don't understand what the advantage is to the Yeti design over even a Kona?? It would make sense if they put the brake on the seat stay but it seems like there are patents that protect that design already held by Trek and DW. It seems to me that the disadvantage to their design is excess weight in the seat stay/suspension pushrod that could be reduced by moving the pivot point towards the BB. This would require a heavier spring but would use less material in the seat stay and have less unsprung mass.

I think the next major improvements in MTB suspesnsion design are going to come in the form of reduced unsprung mass that will allow the wheel to follow the contours of the surface much better. This will be facilitated by moving the freehub/cassette/deraileur/brake assemblies in to the area of the BB. Think gearbox with a fixed hub and the brake actuating on the output shaft of the gear box and transferring braking force to the rear wheel via the chain.

 

[el-cid]

Looks to me like a linkage actuated single pivot, like the Giant DH I had about 4 years ago (not my bike here, result of a Google image search).

 

[slimshady]

Just my two cents (and I know it's PURE specullation). But looking at the CAD picture it seems like both ends of the shock are floating-mounted.
Looking at Dave's career, I guess he has scientifically considered the progressivity curve of the suspension, and has adapted it to improve pedaling and bump absorption.

Anyway, I hope we could see a picture of a metallic model soon!

 

[xy9ine]

I think the next major improvements in MTB suspesnsion design are going to come in the form of reduced unsprung mass that will allow the wheel to follow the contours of the surface much better. This will be facilitated by moving the freehub/cassette/deraileur/brake assemblies in to the area of the BB. Think gearbox with a fixed hub and the brake actuating on the output shaft of the gear box and transferring braking force to the rear wheel via the chain.

i concur. it's unfortunate all the new stuff we're seeing is just incremental refinements of existing systems. i was hoping to see more alternative drivetrain development by now. looks like most of the interesting innovation is still coming from the garage builders.

 

[offtheedge]

i concur. it's unfortunate all the new stuff we're seeing is just incremental refinements of existing systems. i was hoping to see more alternative drivetrain development by now. looks like most of the interesting innovation is still coming from the garage builders.

I agree. At the end of the day it's just another single pivot with gobs of linkage and bearings to achieve the same results as a properly done single pivot and the right(proper)shock.

 

[sanjuro]

I agree. At the end of the day it's just another single pivot with gobs of linkage and bearings to achieve the same results as a properly done single pivot and the right(proper)shock.

Maybe next time Dave Weigle will consult your extensive research into suspension design before ghetto-rigging up this crappy single pivot.

Or maybe he did his own research? Hmmm.

 

[Dogboy]

i concur. it's unfortunate all the new stuff we're seeing is just incremental refinements of existing systems. i was hoping to see more alternative drivetrain development by now. looks like most of the interesting innovation is still coming from the garage builders.

It doesn't seem unfortunate to me at all. Call me crazy, but I'm perfectly happy with my current drivetrain. Nothing wrong with a very simple, very user serviceable derailleur/shifter that shifts with perfect accuracy between 9 cogs, gear ratios that are super easy to change, and a huge number of compatible cranks, shifters, and derailleurs. I like having choices. I think the ability to affect the behavior of the bike via geometry and ratio adjustments is great. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[offtheedge]

It doesn't seem unfortunate to me at all. Call me crazy, but I'm perfectly happy with my current drivetrain. Nothing wrong with a very simple, very user serviceable derailleur/shifter that shifts with perfect accuracy between 9 cogs, gear ratios that are super easy to change, and a huge number of compatible cranks, shifters, and derailleurs. I like having choices. I think the ability to affect the behavior of the bike via geometry and ratio adjustments is great. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Practicality and innovation are different stories.

 

[Cant Climb]

Call me crazy, but I'm perfectly happy with my current drivetrain. Nothing wrong with a very simple, very user serviceable derailleur/shifter that shifts with perfect accuracy between 9 cogs, gear ratios that are super easy to change, and a huge number of compatible cranks, shifters, and derailleurs. I like having choices.

No, the entire bike industry needs to change because people get the occasional stick caught in their derailler....

 

[MDJ]

Is your Google broken?

Yeah, it broke a couple of years ago. I replaced it with a DW link.

 

[Jason4]

Yeah, it broke a couple of years ago. I replaced it with a DW link.

I think that is the funniest post I have ever read in a MTB forum!

 

[S.K.C.]

Meanwhile... at the Bat Cave:

Evil has gone Global bishes...

"...not the kind of manufacturer which many humans expected..."

INDEED.

:biggrin:

 

[redride]

It looks to me like Morewood Makulu,, anyone else?

looks a lot like the commencal and makulu... but its single pivot so u only can modify so much..

 

[jonKranked]

I'm starting to think this isn't a single pivot. its some weird linkage like the old c'dale fulcrum, but with the links on opposite sides. and the top link is different.

 

[xy9ine]

It doesn't seem unfortunate to me at all. Call me crazy, but I'm perfectly happy with my current drivetrain. Nothing wrong with a very simple, very user serviceable derailleur/shifter that shifts with perfect accuracy between 9 cogs, gear ratios that are super easy to change, and a huge number of compatible cranks, shifters, and derailleurs. I like having choices. I think the ability to affect the behavior of the bike via geometry and ratio adjustments is great. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

i hear ya. the current dérailleur drivetrain is pretty dialled, and is generally non-problematic. i've tasted the gearbox kool-aid, however and would rather not have to live with the dangly bits on my big bikes ever again.

i wasn't knocking the evil directly with this statement, just lamenting the lack of truly innovative stuff @ ibike (from what i've seen so far). i like to think companies like sram have top secret black ops labs working on some freaky stuff. anyways...