Some coold roadie crap from the formula brake guys
- Thread starter TheMontashu
- Start date
"coold" ?
Let's keep in mind who started the post. Are you really that surprised
been hashed out in the road forum a lot... they're gonna catch on despite adding weight
-although heavier, less rotational weight
-rims (especially carbon) don't have to be designed to handle braking forces and deal with the associated heat dissipation (more of a problem with carbon)
In that case, I can only imagine the carnage of hot, sharp rotors in a multi-bike crash...
Sounds great to me. Bike manufacturers are already having to add weight to their bikes to come in over the legal UCI threshold, so it shouldn't be that hard to get it so that the weight is offset elsewhere.
Also, I wonder if the next step is carbon disc brakes, like on high-level sports cars? Steel rotors are one of the heaviest components in a disc brake setup, and I'd imagine that a nice big carbon rotor would cut the weight difference down immensely. Only issue would be cost, but if there are people paying a couple grand just for push-button shifting, who's to say that they wouldn't pony up a couple grand for a nice carbon disc brake setup?
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The disc doesnt rotate?
Closer to the rim = less rotational weight impact. I'm sure one of the engineers can explain it better than I can, but removing a small amount of weight from the outside of the circle is far more important than adding an equal (or greater) amount of weight close to the hub.
I don't understand. How can a spinning disc have less rotational weight than a stationary caliper?
Probably offset by not having your brakes go out on a wet mountain descent.
A small burn is better than sailing off the side of a pass, I'd think.
not the stationary caliper, but the rim.
the disc is close to the center of the hub, so it has much less affect on rotational weight.
rims (particularly carbon) now don't have to be (over) engineered to include a braking surface and the necessary structural aspects to withstand brake forces, saving weight. also, by not needing a braking surface, it reduces design constraints so rims can be designed more aerodynamically (theoretically at least, haven't seen any rim models yet to prove this, but at this point its too soon to make a judgement).
Ah, gotcha. That makes sense.
Speaking of Formulas, did y'all catch the Formula sale over on PricePoint?
http://www.pricepoint.com/thumb/15-149--stylename-0-1-27-0000000000.htm
http://www.pricepoint.com/thumb/15-149--stylename-0-1-27-0000000000.htm
Another big argument for the implementation of discs on road bikes is in relation to heat dissipation and tire mounting. With carbon clinchers, heat buildup can cause rims to fail and beads to let loose on high-speed descents. With tubulars, that same heat softens the glue on the rim/basetape interface, increasing the risk of rolling a tire on a high speed descent.
Not to mention braking on carbon is straight up sh!tty. I can't wait for discs on road bikes, but there are others out there who whine and complain that wrecks in the pack will be carnage with disc brakes, but I'd imagine 160/140mm rotors aren't going to be anymore dangerous than chainrings (which I've definitely taken in the back before).
^^^that too.
the bigger question here isn't "when are they gonna catch on?", its "when is the UCI gonna allow them?"
the bigger question here isn't "when are they gonna catch on?", its "when is the UCI gonna allow them?"
I wonder if the rotors need to be that big - Seems that you could get away with a 100mm rotor and smaller caliper. But then you have to figure out how to mount it, I guess.
I'm staying miles away from this until there's some sort of standard.
I'm staying miles away from this until there's some sort of standard.
at that size you'd start hitting clearance issues between dropout/fork leg / caliper
140mm seems large but don't forget the heat factor. Absolute power is not the issue - given the size of the contact patch on a road tire, making a brake strong enough to reach the traction limit is not that hard. But tiny rotors heat up fast, and there are a lot of long road descents out there.
I am all for it. This probably would have happened earlier if it wasn't such a PITA to integrate hydro discs with cable shifters. The Di2 buttons sure make it a lot easier.
Hmm, maybe we should just skip hydro and go straight to electronic discs?
Give it time, right?
I am all for it. This probably would have happened earlier if it wasn't such a PITA to integrate hydro discs with cable shifters. The Di2 buttons sure make it a lot easier.
Hmm, maybe we should just skip hydro and go straight to electronic discs?
Give it time, right?
Forget that. I want to see a bunch of doctors and dentists on their new Sevens try to bleed their hydros.Hmm, maybe we should just skip hydro and go straight to electronic discs?
Hello? Bike shop! I have seen 1st hand carnage doctors and dentists have done on their road bikes pre-disc brakes.
doubt it. the size of a solenoid you'd need to generate the same amount of power as a hydraulic system would be huge; not to mention the battery size needed to generate enough current.Hmm, maybe we should just skip hydro and go straight to electronic discs?
Magnetically actuated piston inline with a short run hose to the caliper. I couldn't find an example but I'm sure it would work....
You mean to go down to the shop and hand me money so they can tell me how to do it, after all drilling into teeth means you know how to fix hydrolic brakes
Nah, I want the guy to make a mess of it himself first, and then come in to rage at you that a simple brake bleed that any moron could do shouldn't cost whatever it costs at your shop
I am grateful for all the times I was ever paid to do something easy for someone paid to do something harder then I could ever imagine. In fact if I can in a small way facilitate the leisure that inspires them to improve our collective health then I am proud to fix their brakes. Even the Hydrolic ones....
so basically brakes would become rube goldberg devices
edit: also, what you are describing is a solenoid...
It is. But it is a simple system. A control signal generated at the lever and sent to a solenoid or magnetically actuated piston that engages a caliper. So instead of Fluid filled hose you have a wire... Think of it like this. A car lock solenoid that actuates a piston instead of the lever that actuates the lock. Pretty simple IMO...
the problem is still the physical size & amount of current needed to produce the required amount of force.
On a much simpler note, I'm grateful that they contribute to my paycheck, and my entertainment when they leave, moar brains than money is usually pretty entertaining
That's always better, There's always twice as many laughs to be had at the guy coming in soaked with mineral oil than when he tells you to not get any on his bike cause it's corrosive.Nah, I want the guy to make a mess of it himself first, and then come in to rage at you that a simple brake bleed that any moron could do shouldn't cost whatever it costs at your shop
A little bit of knowledge...
I'm just asking for it though, I have to bleed my Ones tonight. Watch me end up at the shop tomorrow
Actually, not as bad as advertised. A little different than the Avids, due to the longer lever throw. It's hard to not want to overfill them to make them rocks at the lever.
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Also remember that the wheel's increased diameter vs 26 in mountain will give a need for a little larger rotor, I think 140's and 160's are spot on.
Oh, ad on the note of rotors causing injuries in hi body count pile up with road racing....... Are you kidding? Its not like dowhnill racing/riding were you are using the brakes alot of the time to control top speed......Your riding in close proximity to others going at a hi rate of speed, wearing a helmet, gloves, and Spandex..... I am still alot more worried about the asphalt at that speed than anything else.
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I think the outer diameter of a typical 700X23 roadie tire/wheel combo is pretty close to the same as the outer diameter of a 26X2.2 (roughly), the difference isn't very big.
Just make a solid carbon disc wheel with a carbon rotor molded into the actual solid disc. Go stupid nuts with it. No metal rotor or rotor bolts. No need for a hub or spokes or nipples.
That was just me thinking outloud mostly.....
I have BB7's 160 160 on my commuter and with a 700X23 slick, the braking power and modulation is just amazing. I don't think I would want a smaller rotor on the rear.
Why hasn't anyone argued the reliability of the mounting points on the front forks? Yes the article said the fork was redesigned, but my feeble mind can't wrap around the idea of a skinny-ass road fork being able to endure the torque and strain after prolonged multiple descents. It'd be interesting to know how much real-road testing went into these. Also, no one has accounted for how many people are going to wad it up over the bars after their first time of grabbing a handful of front brake on a bike that weighs a fraction of a mountain slug. I'll wait a couple years as always.
I am with JonKranked. Until they master the ability to actuate the brake electronically then all bets are off.