Sup. 1st post & Foes Predator build critique

Bikael Molton · Dec 9, 2008

Personally I am not a fan of aluminum frames for dj/park. Also the price on that thing is off the charts.

What type of riding are you going to do on this bike?

nwd_26 · Dec 9, 2008

Frame: Foes Racing Predator 2009
Fork: Fox Shox 36 Talas RC2 Fork '09 (Carryover)
Rear Brake: Shimano Saint M810 Disc Brake+Lever kit
Rear Rotor: Shimano IS-Rotor kit (RT75M) - 180mm
Shifter: Shimano Saint SL-M810 9sp Right/Rear (Carryover)
Crank: Shimano Saint
Cassette: Shimano Ultegra-6500 9sp cassette, 11-21 (knock off 3 of the bigger cogs)
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Saint-M810 Shadow Rear SScage (Carryover from previous bike).
Chain: HG93 chain, 9-speed
Headset: Chris King SteelSet 1-1/8"
Stem: Point1, Straitline, or Thomson
Seat Post: Thomson
Handlebar: Answer Pro-Taper
Pedal: Wellgo MG-1 Ti
Saddle: Fit ECCD or WTB Devo
Wheelset: Mavic 729 26" 32 spoke, Hope Pro 2 Trials hubs.
Tires: Kenda Small Block 8

Made a -few- revisions. Build as it is looks good, these are just things I would change. No front brake?

Beast · Dec 9, 2008

nwd_26 said:
No front brake?

It is a dj bike...

Tetreault · Dec 9, 2008

my revisions are in red.

Frame: (any short and low steel frame)
Fork: Fox Shox 36 Talas RC2 Fork '09 (Carryover)
Rear Brake: Shimano Saint M810 Disc Brake+Lever kit
Rear Rotor: Shimano IS-Rotor kit (RT75M) - 180mm
Shifter: Shimano Saint SL-M810 9sp Right/Rear (Carryover)
Crank: a set of 3 pieces, profiles, macneils, ect
Cassette: Shimano Ultegra-6500 9sp cassette, 11-21
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Saint-M810 Shadow Rear SScage (Carryover from previous bike).
Chain: HG93 chain, 9-speed
Headset: Chris King SteelSet 1-1/8"
Stem: Thomson SIC or deity
Seat Post: Thomson
Handlebar: SIC or deity
Pedal: odyssey or any other large platform and open pedal
Saddle: WTB Jaxon V DJ Saddle
Wheelset: Mavic 729 26" 36spk. Disc wheelset w/ Industry nine if you are going to spend that much money
Tires: intense micro knobbies

brycexlighthall · Dec 9, 2008

N3X0R said:
Cool. thanks for the thoughts.

Headin from the DH side I wanted something with >21.5TT. Researched the Mob, never tried one. Almost got a Evil Sov cause my bro has one and its nice, with a Cannondale Chase aluminum setup I can get about 7" more pop though. I'm only 150lbs.

I was concerned that Foes aluminum would break but my friends Chase hasn't cracked yet ,we are only messing around with 4-5ft tables though.. for now. Not sure how it'll hold up when we build higher. Main type of environment down here ranges from hard-soft packed desert dirt. Bullhead city AZ

I chose the Predator over the Sov thinking* the geo was better laid out.

From what I read about the profiles, unless you get the splined drive sprocket there will always be a hard spot in the chain. Ive never used them, do I have my **** wrong? I'd rather go with the Profile MTB cranks/bb with a tree 32 or 36t vs. having to be stuck with only the splined 30t sprocket.

You have over thought this.

jerseydirt · Dec 9, 2008

N3X0R said:
ya, that's whats she said

your still a noob so I will let this one slide. But you need to do better than that dammit! :cheers:

sittingduck · Dec 10, 2008

Frame: Tonic Fab Howie
Fork: Fox Shox 36 Talas RC2 Fork '09 (Carryover)
Rear Brake: Shimano Saint M810 Disc Brake+Lever kit
Rear Rotor: Shimano IS-Rotor kit (RT75M) - 180mm
Shifter: Are you serious?
Crank: Profile
Chain: KMC 410H
Headset: Integrated
Stem: Point1, Straitline, or Thomson
Seat Post: Thomson
Handlebar: Answer Pro-Taper
Pedal: Wellgo MG-1 Ti
Saddle: Fit ECCD or WTB Devo
Wheelset: 36 spoke, Profile hubs.
Tires: Kenda Small Block 8

v-digit · Dec 10, 2008

tonic fab
no gears
all fun

what does this foes predator looks like anyway.... i'm imagining a Y shaped frame like those intense's and klein bikes

t1maglio · Dec 10, 2008

Hey Man. Just jumping on this thread. I came from the DH/DS/XC background and really fought the non-AL frame, no ft brake, no der scene. It wasn't for me either. What I did find was that over time it was nice to have the durability of the steel frame (they are really almost as light, lower, and shorter [in the back] which will make jumping easier then on something that is as stretched as what you are talking about).

Personally, go with a Mob or a Howie and you won't be disappointed in the long run. The best bike I have is the one I am riding now and I have gone through Ellsworths, Evils, and a ton of other really nice frames that never came close to what I have now.

v-digit · Dec 10, 2008

howies and mobs are nice, BUT, can you put 2 bottom brackets in them like you could into a Foes Predator?

t1maglio · Dec 10, 2008

Uh, no comment.

I was talking to my buddy who rides basically for a living. We were talking about denting parts and how missing tricks can result in serious dents on steel parts (he missed a Fuf and his fork right under the headset. Anyway, I was thinking about all the dents I have on my frame, the down tube, the seatstays, whatever, its just sort of a part of riding that parts are going to get munched a bit.

Now imagine doing that with an AL frame. A dent like you would find on my steel frame would basically kill the AL counterpart. Same with hard cases or landings. I'm sure the Foes is strong, but repeated harsh hits will fatigue the material faster then Steel. Especially as you are getting into things and your not as smooth, something that is more resilient would probably be a better choice (imo).

Anyway, to the original poster, I'm sure you mind is made up on the frame. I know how it is when you see something and get excited about it. If thats the frame you want, go for it, you'll probably love it. I cracked a few AL frames before I switched to Steel, perhaps that won't happen to you (I hope it won't). I would just ask you to consider what you want to do with the bike, and then consider your other options

DirtBag · Dec 10, 2008

Diabolus parts on a DJ?? No, no no...

I too thought Al frame at first. I hadd a Vagrant already and then made it SS. Then I had a Chamelion. Then I went steel and never looked back. The Mob is where it's at and that is where I landed. It took a while. Save yourself some time and money and start with more DJ specific stuff as opposed to DH/FR parts. Diabolus is good stuff, but overkill and heavy for DJ.

Also any BMX crank will have a tight spot if not using a splined chainring. It is not the crank as much as the chainring. Non-splined chainrings are tough to center - no matter the crank.

Also you mention tight spot which is a single speed concern - yet you plan to have gears?

t1maglio · Dec 10, 2008

I actually had a Mob for a year and really liked it, just to big for my BMXish nature (my fallguy is a 24" wheel).

My buddy that got me excited about the MOB runs his with a der and does everything on it. Rides DH, XC, and Djs. I don't think you will be disappointed with that choice.

Cheers!

v-digit · Dec 10, 2008

yea, mob.... thats more like it. good choice!

t1maglio · Dec 10, 2008

Thats what we do here on Ridemonkey, we change lives!

Making the world a better place one rider at a time.

t1maglio · Dec 10, 2008

Personally, I would go maybe smaller on the Chainring. I have the same setup with a 27t and then a 11t in the back. Thats a pretty stiff gear. If you are doing 36-11 you will be struggling, unless everything is DH, but from your explaination thats not the case. Come to think of it, your on a 26". 27-11 would probably be pretty good, maybe a 30T, but I wouldn't go higher. Thats all IMO and can be open to debate.

As for the bars and stem, love my Thomson stuff, its amazing. I am one of those Diabalous guys, but it is probably an overkill. There are a lot of nice bars out there that are steel that you might consider, a little more forgiving to vibrations and such. You might also consider doing 31.8 stuff instead of the smaller diameter. Stronger, stiffer (going against the shock absorbtion thing). I really like the bigger diameter in terms of looks and performance. The Pro Taper is available in the larger size as well (and to comment on those bars, I had them for years and never had problems.

Just my .02

t1maglio · Dec 10, 2008

Hmmm, well we might have a problem. I'm not really up on my chainguides, but from what I remember you need to use a traditional MTB style chainring with spyder bolt mounting holes to mount the chainguides bashguard on to. Typically now a days in a 4 bolt patter or 5 bolt 110mm pattern (if my memory serves me right). The Tree will not work with this application because it has no mounting holes. Maybe there is a new system that will work with this, or maybe there is something I'm missing, but I would be concerned about that.

Perhaps just a top mount guide, or a simple ft der locked out would work, or consider a different sprocket.

To answer the second half of your question my Mob had a 25-12 originally which was way to light. I switched to the 27t and that was alright. I would think for a high end gear the 27-11 would be really solid, something you could wind out a bit. The additional gears could give you more spin for dealing with the sand.

DirtBag · Dec 10, 2008

Well if you are going to use gears, then do not get a Tree splined chainring. That is only for SS. If you want "BMX-ish" cranks look into the new Deity Vandeta cranks and chainring. They make a chainring that has a 104bp (4 bolt) that you can run a bashguard with.

If you are getting a Mob, order one with vertical dropouts and ISCG tabs. Then decide if you are going single ring up fron or daul. Get the appropriate e.13 chainguide system. LG-1 for single or DRS for dual.

Landon · Dec 10, 2008

Hey, thanks to the folks who recommended a Howie.

As for gears...we could certainly build a Howie with a euro BB, ICGS tabs and a derailleur hanger.

I think a more interesting option might be Shimano Alfine. I've ridden this stuff and it's bang-on. Not the lightest, but it can't be far off a cassette / RD / CG. Zero dish wheel, and much more streamlined than all the other stuff. Just something to think about.

A Grove · Dec 11, 2008

Landon,

I cannot imagine the alfine holding up with any great success. It's spec'd on "lazy cruizers" etc, and IMO its only asking for trouble. Let us know how it holds up to long-term abuse. I feel an internal 3spd. hub has MASSIVE abilities to be brought onto the market. Not only into the DJ scene, but also niners, etc. But it must be done right.

Landon · Dec 12, 2008

Agrove,

I certainly have no use for a multi-speed hard tail so I won't be testing it.

A quick google search will reveal folks using Alfine off road with no trouble. It's good, and cheap. It's not light. If Alfine can be used for XC, it's probably fine for this sort of riding.

Seems like decent way to add gears to a bike.

-L

Beast · Dec 12, 2008

I'd recommend a new MRP Mini-G for your chainguide. Holds 32-36 tooth rings.

chuffer · Dec 12, 2008

to the OP: If you are building a dirt jump bike, you dont need gears.

aaronrocker · Dec 12, 2008

chuffer, are you even paying attention to what he is talking about?

N3X0R, I dont know how far away from this you are but i found it on craigslist if you are interested.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/spo/954116316.html

chuffer · Dec 12, 2008

aaronrocker said:
chuffer, are you even paying attention to what he is talking about?

no.45

chuffer · Dec 13, 2008

I understand that you have to ride to the jumps, but I am going to repeat myself: go single speed. Here are a few reasons:

1. Building a bike that can do it all is not a realistic goal. The "jack of all trades" is also the "master of none." In other words if it is comfy to pedal through the desert, it is likely gonna suck as a jumper.

2. For DJ, or even freeride, the more complex the bike (more moving parts) the greater the likelihood something is gonna break when you bail or ditch.

3. riding a single speed isnt that hard, especially for only 20 minutes. besides it'll make you stronger.

as to your question about gearing, 32-16 on 26" wheel is a pretty common gear. I currently use this on my xc and freeride single speed bikes. When I had a 26" DJ bike I used this ratio on it as well.

aaronrocker · Dec 13, 2008

N3X0R said:
out here it takes us about an hour of desert trail riding to get to our jumps.

come on man pay attenition

chuffer · Dec 13, 2008

aaronrocker said:
come on man pay attenition

OP said:
We found an old mnt. bike with 22/32 ring + 28/24/21/18/15/13/11 gears. Figure I'd ride that around our desert trails see if I can hack using the 32 + 15, 13, or 11 and narrow it down to a single speed that can push through it all. The 32/15 seems to have the closest gear inch to the 27/11 gearing T1mag recommended. c how that goes.

I'm also set on that i9 Single Speed wheelset. If I can't settle on a single gear, it looks like I can hook up to 4 cogs to that rear SS profile cassette... If I can narrow my range to 4 speeds.

looks like the OP is considering SS after all.

if you are referring to the 20 min vs. 1 hour, whatever. I couldn't be assed to go back and look how long he had to ride. besides, 20 minutes or an hour, whats the big difference?

if you are pulling my tail, cool. good work. if you are being serious, piss off and stop being so anal.

aaronrocker · Dec 13, 2008

im just playing around bro, not meaning to piss you off, my bad

chuffer · Dec 13, 2008

aaronrocker said:
im just playing around bro, not meaning to piss you off, my bad

haha. no worries. excellent work pulling my tail. +rep

t1maglio · Dec 13, 2008

Commonly a 2:1 ratio is used with ss bikes. The thing is this ratio sets you up for overall riding but it lacks top end (in other words you will spin out fast). I don't know what your trails are like but most of the time you are cranking to get up to speed, or are already at speed and need a little extra (I hate spinning out at a lip). I would suggest going slightly higher then 2:1 for your high gear if your going to run multiple gears and if you go ss I guess just consider what your riding will involve.

aaronrocker · Dec 13, 2008

chuffer said:
haha. no worries. excellent work pulling my tail. +rep

thanks for being a good sport about it
lol

Sup. 1st post & Foes Predator build critique

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