[16v]

So, sorry if this has been covered ad nauseam, but search hasn't been working for me, and there wasn't a link in any of the sticky threads about rear derailleurs.

My DH bike is the first bike I've had in ages that actually has gears. As a result, I'm woefully under-informed as to what is good and what is not in terms of shifting. My current derailleur is on its last legs, and it'd be really nice to have a drivetrain that works properly. Tuning the derailleur, I can do, but when it comes to buying a new one, I have no idea what's good and whats not.

I'm currently looking at an X.9 rear derailleur only, for 60 dollars. Any thoughts? It is a short cage, which I'm assuming would be better, just because you wouldn't have the pulleys hanging down, but what about drawbacks?

And, any other suggestions on derailleurs/what I should look out for when buying is appreciated, although I'm in college, so something like a Sram Red is completely out of the question

 

[blackohio]

short cage.
cant use shimano with Sram
Best derailleur i've had on a DH bike- Shimano 105

Drawbacks to short cage if your using a really big rear cassette might not be happy shifting into all the gears. But to remedy that just run a road rear cassette, you dont need a big spread anyhow.

 

[no skid marks]

short cage.
cant use shimano with Sram
Best derailleur i've had on a DH bike- Shimano 105

Drawbacks to short cage if your using a really big rear cassette might not be happy shifting into all the gears. But to remedy that just run a road rear cassette, you dont need a big spread anyhow.

Short cage MTB mech will work fine with big cassette sprockets. Short cage road mechs ramp up at a shallower angle, hence why you need to run a road cassette.
X9 short cage is a good worthy choice for a DH bike IMO.

 

[DirtyMike]

Shorty saint..... that is all that is needed to know..... The only hi en derailluer that is a noticable jump in p[erformance..... that and its burly, it tucks out of the way, takes a hell of a beating...

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I've seen the new style Saint derailleurs take some nasty shots without bending. They sometimes have a habit of wearing out the pivots and getting a little sloppy over time.

X-9 derailleurs aren't quite as tough, but a solid choice for sure. For $60, you can't lose.

 

[buildyourown]

What shifter do you have?
As mentioned earlier, you can't use SRAM ESP with shimano.
SRAM does make the attack shifters, which can be used with shimano derailleurs. Shimano road stuff is compatible, but SRAM's is completely out.

Saint short cage or XT shadow short cage.
If you are hard up, snag a 105 off ebay. Once road stuff gets a tiny scratch, roadies consider it ruined and will sell it for cheap.

SRAM stuff is way to fragile for DH IMO. One good hit and it's bent and won't ever be right again.

 

[mtg]

I've been happy with X9 up until model year 2010, where it appears that the short cage X9 has a smaller main pivot than any other Sram mechs, and I wore mine out after one season on the trail bike. Not cool.
X0 on the other hand, has been pretty bullet proof, ime. I took a digger that basically dropped my DH bike straight onto the X0 derailleur, which came out unscathed, yet the hanger snapped off. Pretty impressive.

 

[demo 9]

I have been mauling the same saint for 2 seasons until it finally got sloppy enough to throw out. I cant even begin to tell you how horrible it looked, nearly no paint left. They are expensive, but its 1 of the ders that can nail a rock, lift your bike off the ground, and not suffer any shifting loss, the only thing better than a saint short cage is a Gearbox, but we wont go there, or will we?

 

[16v]

What shifter do you have?
As mentioned earlier, you can't use SRAM ESP with shimano.
SRAM does make the attack shifters, which can be used with shimano derailleurs. Shimano road stuff is compatible, but SRAM's is completely out.

Saint short cage or XT shadow short cage.
If you are hard up, snag a 105 off ebay. Once road stuff gets a tiny scratch, roadies consider it ruined and will sell it for cheap.

SRAM stuff is way to fragile for DH IMO. One good hit and it's bent and won't ever be right again.

Im running Shimano shifter/shimano XT derailleur currently. Also, to make sure that I read you correctly, Shimano road and mountain bike shifters/derailleurs are all interchangeable?
So what exactly prevents somebody from running a Shimano shifter with a SRAM derailleur? and I'm assuming the converse, a SRAM shifter wont work with a Shimano derailleur?

 

[norbar]

What shifter do you have?
As mentioned earlier, you can't use SRAM ESP with shimano.
SRAM does make the attack shifters, which can be used with shimano derailleurs. Shimano road stuff is compatible, but SRAM's is completely out.

Saint short cage or XT shadow short cage.
If you are hard up, snag a 105 off ebay. Once road stuff gets a tiny scratch, roadies consider it ruined and will sell it for cheap.

SRAM stuff is way to fragile for DH IMO. One good hit and it's bent and won't ever be right again.

Thats a strange myth if you mean you cant run a sram road derailleur on a dh bike. For the past year Ive been using rival and it was very good. Had some problems at first but it was mostly due to my stupidity.

 

[worship_mud]

Im running Shimano shifter/shimano XT derailleur currently. Also, to make sure that I read you correctly, Shimano road and mountain bike shifters/derailleurs are all interchangeable?
So what exactly prevents somebody from running a Shimano shifter with a SRAM derailleur? and I'm assuming the converse, a SRAM shifter wont work with a Shimano derailleur?

if you have shimano shifters you're stuck with shimao derailleurs unless you want to change the shifter, too.
i have used a med. cage XT (there are no short cage XTs, btw...) for the last three years, this shadow thingy, which "hides" the derailleur under the chainstay seems to work very good. and it prevents the RD from slapping into the chainstay, which makes for a noticably quieter bike overall....

SRAM: 1:1 ratio on the shifter
shimano: 1:2 ration on the shifter
this means that if the gear cable is moved one unit in the shifter it moves 1 unit at the RD (SRAM, hence 1:1) or 2 units (shimano, hence 1:2)

 

[16v]

hmmm. so I was pricing all this stuff out at the shop I work at, and I can get a full set of X7 rear shifter and derailleur for 50-60ish dollars. How large of a difference is there between the X9 and X7

 

[blackohio]

not much, it's not a noticable difference. Up until the newst saint/shimano offerings the sram stuff had a considerably crisper shift but Shimano has answered that quite well.

Really thought, unless you are used to dialing in bikes for people, you wont notice a difference. Also if youre new to this whole game dont spent alot wheels, derailleurs, der. hangers and pedals are what you'll consume the fastest until you start dailing in lines and getting alot more consistant. I know, i've murdered a few pedals and derailleurs/hangers

 

[DirtyMike]

I am going to repeat here a bit..... Sram is WAY to fragile for DH use.... seriously, one hit and they are dead. I went through 9 in a year 6 of them x9, the other three were x7........

You already have the Shimano shifter...... Saint Shadow is truly your best bet.... I would take a 105 over the Sram stuff for DH any day.......




http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RD294A01-Shimano+Saint+Rd-M810+Rear+Derailleur.aspx

I know its 139, but thats a good price for a Saint..... trust.... the durability is Beyond worth it

 

[16v]

I am going to repeat here a bit..... Sram is WAY to fragile for DH use.... seriously, one hit and they are dead. I went through 9 in a year 6 of them x9, the other three were x7........

You already have the Shimano shifter...... Saint Shadow is truly your best bet.... I would take a 105 over the Sram stuff for DH any day.......




http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RD294A01-Shimano+Saint+Rd-M810+Rear+Derailleur.aspx

I know its 139, but thats a good price for a Saint..... trust.... the durability is Beyond worth it

Yea, i think I'll just be sticking with a Shimano rear derailleur. like you said, I already have a Shimano shifter. Unfortunately, as amazing as the Saint sounds, I cant justify spending 1/4 of the price I paid for my bike on a derailleur.

The plus side is it turns out my derailleur housing was ****ed, and that combined with all the gunk in my drivetrain was what (hopefully) was screwing up my shifting. If thats the case, i can still run this current derailleur for a bit longer....although its a low-normal derailleur, and try as I might, I'm still getting shifting mixed up. Just curious though, are there shifters made specially for low normal derailleurs?

 

[DirtyMike]

Yea, i think I'll just be sticking with a Shimano rear derailleur. like you said, I already have a Shimano shifter. Unfortunately, as amazing as the Saint sounds, I cant justify spending 1/4 of the price I paid for my bike on a derailleur.

The plus side is it turns out my derailleur housing was ****ed, and that combined with all the gunk in my drivetrain was what (hopefully) was screwing up my shifting. If thats the case, i can still run this current derailleur for a bit longer....although its a low-normal derailleur, and try as I might, I'm still getting shifting mixed up. Just curious though, are there shifters made specially for low normal derailleurs?

Ahhhhh.... Low normal mechs are ****...... they always eff up when not in completly perfect condition and cleanlyness............

I would still plan on getting a new mech, something like the 105 for CHEAP...



And no....... There are no shifters made specific to low normal..AkA radpid rise

 

[fred.r]

I am going to repeat here a bit..... Sram is WAY to fragile for DH use.... seriously, one hit and they are dead. I went through 9 in a year 6 of them x9, the other three were x7........

No it's not... I've been running the same X.0 rear mech for 5 years. Plenty of scrapes and gouges, still shifts fine.

 

[William42]

I disagree strongly that sram is too fragile for DH use. I got several years out of my x9. However, after running a saint der/shifter (new 810 saint) I am a strong believer in recommending saint.

 

[16v]

Ahhhhh.... Low normal mechs are ****...... they always eff up when not in completly perfect condition and cleanlyness............

I would still plan on getting a new mech, something like the 105 for CHEAP...



And no....... There are no shifters made specific to low normal..AkA radpid rise

haha. dammit. good to know it wasn't me screwing up the derailleur set-up!
Anyways, thanks for all the help guys. This crash course in derailleurs has helped immensly. Now its just a matter of finding a cheaper used derailleur.

 

[w00dy]

Old Saint > New Saint

 

[DirtyMike]

Eh...... You guys can go with Sram.... Only reason I ever went to Sram in teh first place was for the two simple facts, no cable loop, and thumb thumb operation....

Shimano has since fixed both of those......

My issue with teh Sram is, the body of the mech itself tends to be weak, it twists just a little, allowing for it to make contact with itself locking out your higher/smallest gears..... Everything else works fine.... If I am not mistaken, more than a few on here have had to go and do the dremel trick to lengthen the life of the mech<myself included>


As to old saint being greater than new saint.... strength wise.... sure........ But old saint was still rapid rise, which sucks....... They had to make old style saint retarded strong though, thats because the damn thing sticks out friggin for miles off the side of the bike< ran those too, damn things just dont die, but never shift right past the first day>

 

[Sandwich]

I'm a new saint user and I love it. Problem free for the better part of two seasons. Thing is a masterpiece. I've heard rumors of bad pivots but it didn't seem to happen to me.

I had bad experiences with older SRAM stuff. I don't think it's enough to write them off as a brand, but the SAINT stuff is so much better than anything of equivalent value from SRAM in my opinion...

For you, I'd try and snag and old 105 short cage derailleur or ultegra, whatever is cheap and available, or if you can, find a new saint derailleur used. If you decide on shimano, know that they don't have the rollamajig patent, so cable routing can be kind of weird. SRAM picked them up so you'll either have to find one NOS or deal with the cable loop...

 

[TKCastle]

I have a X.O that looks like the bucket on a 15 year old front loader that works just fine. It's all a roll of the dice not manufacturing quality.

 

[DirtyMike]

I have a X.O that looks like the bucket on a 15 year old front loader that works just fine. It's all a roll of the dice not manufacturing quality.

I think its more the material being used, and the fact that Sram is just built with alot mroe precision than the shimano stuff......


Dont get me wrong guys, I plan to be building up an AM rig this year..... mostly an agressive XC bike and using Sram..... As far as quality of the shift I would go sram....... Just too many times to see the exact same failure on my own bike to belive its durable enough as a DH use...

 

[w00dy]

damn things just dont die, but never shift right past the first day

What are you talking about?

I ran one of those for a couple of seasons of DH. Platty, Whiteface, all the nice rocky stuff. It didn't miss a shift until I nailed it with a shale slab the size of a small dog. A little tweaking and it was right back to normal.

Say what you want about rapid rise. It's confusing if you swap between bikes, but I do think it shifts better.

 

[DirtyMike]

What are you talking about?

I ran one of those for a couple of seasons of DH. Platty, Whiteface, all the nice rocky stuff. It didn't miss a shift until I nailed it with a shale slab the size of a small dog. A little tweaking and it was right back to normal.

Say what you want about rapid rise. It's confusing if you swap between bikes, but I do think it shifts better.

Eh... never had issues going form bike to bike..... Just never seen rapid rise hold its performance over time just because of the simple way ir works compared to the physics involved...... The standard way mechs are set, they get a double pull to move the chain to the smaller gears, were as with RR the two springs inside the mech have a big tendancy to fight each other on the release shift