Having been cut-up by one on a Parisian motorway - I can assure you that they have no problems!
the alternative personal transportation thread
Having been cut-up by one on a Parisian motorway - I can assure you that they have no problems!
the suspension will exert a non-zero force at each wheel even if the vehicle isn't strictly "stable" unless the front wheels are locked in relation to each other. to wit, some owners have dropped the thing at stoplights since they thought it was locked but then found out that unstable equilibria ultimately become unstable despite the suspension forces -- ie, the bike tipped over too slowly for them to realize because the suspension damped the movements.
What's the difference between a Scotsman and an Onion?
No one cry's when a Scotsman gets cut up.
I'm imagining the cartoon where the wyle-e-coyote is very slowly teetering off the edge of a cliff and all he can do is make his eyes bug out of his head until he finally loses it off the edge.
my skepticism persists. You should buy one so I can ride it in the snow :biggrin:.
i visited Vespa Seattle today and found some answers:look what i just found. reminiscent of the BMW C1 (which was also featured in this thread near its inception):
1) the roof and trailer are not commercially available
2) the snow tires are not DOT rated but enterprising individuals have imported them on their own
3) there are people, namely the sales guy, who ride on 2 wheels year round. that's not so impressive in seattle but he did it for the better part of a decade in chicago, too. he thought MP3 + long island would be no problem with proper clothing.
4) the Piaggio MP3 Hybrid is one of those perpetually "6-12 months from release" products. the owner said he'd heard rumblings of Dec 2009 but nothing was official. i have a feeling the US market may not ever see it.
5) three windscreen heights are available for the MP3 250 and 400: normal, medium, and ridiculously tall, the last being the one seen with the faux-roof above. a single screen option is available for the MP3 500: its default no-screen state and an option that's between the standard and medium heights available for the 250 and 400.
so now i ask the scooter riders -- Changleen, where are you? -- what's the skinny on windscreens? without a windshield wiper do you aim for a screen that's below your helmet? would the super-huge-alien screen be a bad thing? i was told rain-x doesn't work since the screens are plastic, but are there any alternatives?
default:
medium (not quite the same, this isn't OEM):
super tall:
here's the MP3 500 sans screen as it comes from the factory:
and here's a MP3 500 with the windscreen:
finally, for your patience, a model on a gilera fuoco (aka Piaggio MP3 500 here):
Not out yet? I have been seeing those things allot, like once every week or 2 I see one rolling around
the fabled plug-in hybrid version isn't out. 250, 400, and 500 cc gasoline versions are out and in abundance.
For sure. I also saw a greasle hybrid motorcycle a few weeks ago in front of safeway
The windscreens just reduce the amount of wind buffeting on your upper body which is really only a problem on longer rides, and also to reduce (I guess) windchill which might be good in winter........ Highly recommend retro fitting heated grips!!!!!
Of those screens I'd go for the medium one..... the super tall one looks like head impact level.
*edit* maybe not head impact, but stupid and ugly.
Of those screens I'd go for the medium one..... the super tall one looks like head impact level.
*edit* maybe not head impact, but stupid and ugly.
what about their use in rain? i've read that tall windscreens aren't the best in rain even though they'd keep you dry as they clearly lack windshield wipers. note that the BMW C1 had a wiper... smart bavarians. (i guess i could really be a goon and run not only the super-tall screen but a windshield wiper: http://motorcyclewindshieldwiper.com/products/wiperkit.asp )The windscreens just reduce the amount of wind buffeting on your upper body which is really only a problem on longer rides, and also to reduce (I guess) windchill which might be good in winter........ Highly recommend retro fitting heated grips!!!!!
Of those screens I'd go for the medium one..... the super tall one looks like head impact level.
*edit* maybe not head impact, but stupid and ugly.
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If those electric bike posted so far are not quite fast enough for you... How about This one!!!!!! 
0-60mph in under ONE SECOND
The four minutes to charge it enough for 7 runs on the quarter mile track is pretty impressive too.
0-60mph in under ONE SECOND
Heh "zero emissions".... Except for the smoke coming off the tyres as it dissapears into the distance!
The four minutes to charge it enough for 7 runs on the quarter mile track is pretty impressive too.
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Having been riding sans windscreen for over a year, wind is the biggest factor. Seeing how you won't be touring, I would think a well designed mid screen would be best for surface street commuting. Won't help with the rain, but the wind would get somewhat redirected.
Rain gear is key, anyway.
Rain gear is key, anyway.
If you go fast enough you can find a little pocket where you don't have to look through the screen but the air redirects the rai over your helmet.
sorry for the photo of the random old white dude, but this photo really illustrates how ridiculously tall/swept back at the top the tall Piaggio MP3 screen is. i want. i could just lean forward at traffic lights to stay dry
That guy is exactly the image that jumped to mind when I first saw the MP3, right down to the sandals and socks. The 500 is borderline cool (as is the tech) but they still remind me of the Rascal scooters favored by the morbidly obese.
sorry for the photo of the random old white dude
heh, unfortunately agreed. the regular scooter crowd has a stereotype as well...
imagine BMXman in that outfit and you have it nailed
:biggrin:
NYTimes: Detroit Goes for Electric Cars, but Will Drivers?
key points from the decent overview article:
- demand for electric cars may well hinge on action and incentives from the federal government under Obama's administration
- the price for batteries for these electric cars is contingent on volume, and the volume hinges on the price of the cars (and thus the batteries)
- "On Sunday, when the [Detroit auto] show opens, Ford will announce plans for its electric vehicle, including a goal to start selling them by 2011." they aim for 10k vehicles per year at a price yet to be determined. the vehicle will be engineered by Magna, a canadian firm.
- "Nissan's chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, has promised to sell an electric car in the United States and Japan as early as next year [2010]."
- "Chrysler, the most troubled of Detroit’s three auto companies, has vowed to produce its first electric car by 2010." does this equate to "selling to the public"? not so sure from the wording.
- the Chevy Volt is supposed to be released in late 2010, in theory
- Better Place and its battery charging + swapping network plans are given some lip service
i have a feeling i might not be able to buy a viable, commercially available vehicle at least until i'm done with residency in 2013. just as well, since that'll be (or a year later after fellowship will be) when i'll be able to begin afford it...
key points from the decent overview article:
- demand for electric cars may well hinge on action and incentives from the federal government under Obama's administration
- the price for batteries for these electric cars is contingent on volume, and the volume hinges on the price of the cars (and thus the batteries)
- "On Sunday, when the [Detroit auto] show opens, Ford will announce plans for its electric vehicle, including a goal to start selling them by 2011." they aim for 10k vehicles per year at a price yet to be determined. the vehicle will be engineered by Magna, a canadian firm.
- "Nissan's chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, has promised to sell an electric car in the United States and Japan as early as next year [2010]."
- "Chrysler, the most troubled of Detroit’s three auto companies, has vowed to produce its first electric car by 2010." does this equate to "selling to the public"? not so sure from the wording.
- the Chevy Volt is supposed to be released in late 2010, in theory
- Better Place and its battery charging + swapping network plans are given some lip service
i have a feeling i might not be able to buy a viable, commercially available vehicle at least until i'm done with residency in 2013. just as well, since that'll be (or a year later after fellowship will be) when i'll be able to begin afford it...
today's news on autobloggreen.com indicates a 2012 possible release for ford's BEV (battery-electric vehicle). hmph.
the Insight also has been revealed somewhat:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/11/abg-first-drive-2009-honda-insight-63-4-mpg/
interesting points: the battery is NiMH and only 580 Wh, as compared to 869 Wh on the current Civic Hybrid. my BICYCLE has 576 Wh of lithium... sheesh. when i drove a Civic Hybrid i did notice that the charge level in the battery was easily depleted, so i'm not sure that this is a good thing. honda is really going for saving on costs with this model. although i don't quite parse their explanation of the motor design it looks interesting.
it's 2.5 inches shorter in length and 6 inches shorter in wheelbase than the Prius. not sure if this comparison is to the 2G or 3G Prius. thus interior space is still technically in the compact realm as opposed to the midsized Prius.
in terms of driving it has an Economy mode and there is a color-coded guide to the "greenness" of your driving style on the speedometer a la the Fusion Hybrid and the current Civic Hybrid.
the meat: ABG's driver logged 52 mpg US on a normal loop, 44 mpg on the "sport loop", and 62-63 mpg when driving for efficiency. i'm frankly surprised considering the hardware is technically inferior to that of the Prius. i want to see what the new Prius will do in ABG's fans, as they are admittedly fanbois.
Honda expects a 40/43 city/hwy EPA mpg rating, lower than the Prius but, again, for a cheaper vehicle.
-----------------------------------
2010 Lexus HS250h. known to be a hybrid and based off the new Prius but nothing else is forthcoming yet.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/lexus-prius-i-mean-hs250h/
not quite my type of car given my age and position in life but is right up my parents' alley: they have a 2001 Acura CL 3.2 Type S with 100k+ miles on it as well as a 2004 Prius that they quite like. something like this new hybrid Lexus could well find a way into their garage after the Acura finally gives up the ghost.
the Insight also has been revealed somewhat:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/11/abg-first-drive-2009-honda-insight-63-4-mpg/
interesting points: the battery is NiMH and only 580 Wh, as compared to 869 Wh on the current Civic Hybrid. my BICYCLE has 576 Wh of lithium... sheesh. when i drove a Civic Hybrid i did notice that the charge level in the battery was easily depleted, so i'm not sure that this is a good thing. honda is really going for saving on costs with this model. although i don't quite parse their explanation of the motor design it looks interesting.
it's 2.5 inches shorter in length and 6 inches shorter in wheelbase than the Prius. not sure if this comparison is to the 2G or 3G Prius. thus interior space is still technically in the compact realm as opposed to the midsized Prius.
in terms of driving it has an Economy mode and there is a color-coded guide to the "greenness" of your driving style on the speedometer a la the Fusion Hybrid and the current Civic Hybrid.
the meat: ABG's driver logged 52 mpg US on a normal loop, 44 mpg on the "sport loop", and 62-63 mpg when driving for efficiency. i'm frankly surprised considering the hardware is technically inferior to that of the Prius. i want to see what the new Prius will do in ABG's fans, as they are admittedly fanbois.
Honda expects a 40/43 city/hwy EPA mpg rating, lower than the Prius but, again, for a cheaper vehicle.
-----------------------------------
2010 Lexus HS250h. known to be a hybrid and based off the new Prius but nothing else is forthcoming yet.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/lexus-prius-i-mean-hs250h/
not quite my type of car given my age and position in life
but is right up my parents' alley: they have a 2001 Acura CL 3.2 Type S with 100k+ miles on it as well as a 2004 Prius that they quite like. something like this new hybrid Lexus could well find a way into their garage after the Acura finally gives up the ghost.
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The lexus looks like a sleeker Camary. My folks wanted the Camary Hybrid when they bought the last one, but the dealer had none and no leads. I think they have one on order for next year (new Camary every 3 years is the cycle).
2010 Prius officially unveiled.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/detroit-2009-third-gen-prius-arrives-with-50-mpg-combined-ratin/
tasty tidbits:
- 50 mpg EPA combined rating is projected, compare to the 41 mpg for the Insight above
- faster, larger, and more efficient
- new moonroof option with a solar panel that runs an independent climate control system while parked to keep the vehicle at a reasonable temperature
- 0.25 Cd, a new low
- LED low beam headlights optional (for low energy usage), LED taillights standard
- pricing not announced yet
Fisker also showed a "production" Karma in detroit today, but i'll believe that one when it ships to consumers with its promised specs at its promised price.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/detroit-2009-third-gen-prius-arrives-with-50-mpg-combined-ratin/
tasty tidbits:
- 50 mpg EPA combined rating is projected, compare to the 41 mpg for the Insight above
- faster, larger, and more efficient
- new moonroof option with a solar panel that runs an independent climate control system while parked to keep the vehicle at a reasonable temperature
- 0.25 Cd, a new low
- LED low beam headlights optional (for low energy usage), LED taillights standard
- pricing not announced yet
Fisker also showed a "production" Karma in detroit today, but i'll believe that one when it ships to consumers with its promised specs at its promised price.
a video review of a battery-electric Ford Focus EV mule by the NYTimes:
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/01/10/automobiles/1231544889183/ford-s-new-electric-car.html
mostly a fluff piece but a few things were gleaned from it:
- it exists.
- "a few hundred pounds heavier" than a base focus due to batteries
- 23 kWh battery. that's big.
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/01/10/automobiles/1231544889183/ford-s-new-electric-car.html
mostly a fluff piece but a few things were gleaned from it:
- it exists.
- "a few hundred pounds heavier" than a base focus due to batteries
- 23 kWh battery. that's big.
a bunch of auto show-derived news:
1) Th!nk, maker of the Th!nk City production electric car and recently in dire financial straits, has received an investment from Ener1, which makes the battery pack used in the Th!nk City. strange how that works. interestingly, ford was an early investor but sold their stake years ago.
this thing has 4 seats!
2) Tesla is confirmed to be the powertrain supplier to Mercedes Benz for the Smart ED electric vehicle of which 1000 will be built in the upcoming year, likely for fleet customers
3) Tesla also let drop that their battery packs in the Roadster and in the Smart ED both use 18650 size lithium-ion cells, just that the Smart's pack uses less of them.
also, and more importantly, Elon Musk said that the Roadster program should be profitable this year, 2009. having commercially viable companies is kind of crucial. production is currently at 15/wk but is expected to double this year. still small fry ultimately but getting bigger.
what are "18650" cells? it's a size standard for a small, cylindrical battery cell that's used widely in commercial products. each is nominally 3.6V, and capacities range from 1200 mAh to 2400-2600 mAh for newer, less proven offerings. to get more voltage and amperage you connect a bunch of them in series and parallel as may be needed. how small is "a small, cylindrical battery"? try 18.4 mm diameter x 65 mm height. the Tesla Roadster's battery pack uses about 6800 of these 18650-type cells...
4) GM seems to have spectacularly reneged on its recent "promise" to use michigan-sourced batteries for the Chevy Volt, as it selected South Korea's LG Chem to supply the battery pack. oh wait, they'll "assemble" them here from S. Korea-sourced cells. this is what america has come to: we're not the place that designs or produces the high tech bit but are rather the source for the unskilled labor to assemble the final product. lovely.
however, not all hope is lost for those who would like to see a US resurgence in green technology: John Doerr of the venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins, which was mentioned in a NYTimes Magazine article a few months ago in this very thread iirc, let slip that there's a "stealth" startup that they're funding that "was found 'outside the U.S.,' but is building manufacturing plants in the Midwest and will ship batteries at the end of the year". i'm not sure what this actually means, but it could be good.
1) Th!nk, maker of the Th!nk City production electric car and recently in dire financial straits, has received an investment from Ener1, which makes the battery pack used in the Th!nk City. strange how that works. interestingly, ford was an early investor but sold their stake years ago.
this thing has 4 seats!
2) Tesla is confirmed to be the powertrain supplier to Mercedes Benz for the Smart ED electric vehicle of which 1000 will be built in the upcoming year, likely for fleet customers
3) Tesla also let drop that their battery packs in the Roadster and in the Smart ED both use 18650 size lithium-ion cells, just that the Smart's pack uses less of them.
also, and more importantly, Elon Musk said that the Roadster program should be profitable this year, 2009. having commercially viable companies is kind of crucial. production is currently at 15/wk but is expected to double this year. still small fry ultimately but getting bigger.
what are "18650" cells? it's a size standard for a small, cylindrical battery cell that's used widely in commercial products. each is nominally 3.6V, and capacities range from 1200 mAh to 2400-2600 mAh for newer, less proven offerings. to get more voltage and amperage you connect a bunch of them in series and parallel as may be needed. how small is "a small, cylindrical battery"? try 18.4 mm diameter x 65 mm height. the Tesla Roadster's battery pack uses about 6800 of these 18650-type cells...
4) GM seems to have spectacularly reneged on its recent "promise" to use michigan-sourced batteries for the Chevy Volt, as it selected South Korea's LG Chem to supply the battery pack. oh wait, they'll "assemble" them here from S. Korea-sourced cells. this is what america has come to: we're not the place that designs or produces the high tech bit but are rather the source for the unskilled labor to assemble the final product. lovely.
however, not all hope is lost for those who would like to see a US resurgence in green technology: John Doerr of the venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins, which was mentioned in a NYTimes Magazine article a few months ago in this very thread iirc, let slip that there's a "stealth" startup that they're funding that "was found 'outside the U.S.,' but is building manufacturing plants in the Midwest and will ship batteries at the end of the year". i'm not sure what this actually means, but it could be good.
"Moonbeam"
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6omtd/jorysquibb/index.html
built by the dude from Maine in the photos for $2500 from two salvaged scooters, a 1987 Honda Elite 150 and a 1984 Elite 125. 85 mpg around town, 100+ at 40 mph when shooting for economy per the builder. 386 lbs. 40" track up front, 56" wheelbase. 53 mph on flat ground.
note the windshield wiper!
interestingly enough the guy was involved in building lead-acid EV conversion VW Bugs way back in the 1970s (25 mile range, 2500 lbs):
huge photo of the dude back in the 1970s at some hillclimb with the EV Bug here: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6omtd/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/untitled-1.jpg
his current project is helping to build a Maine entry to the Automotive X Prize. from what i could glean from his somewhat schizophrenic site it's going to be a 4 wheeler with tandem seating (ie front and back), two narrowly-spaced, undriven rear wheels, front wheel drive via a Kawasaki Mule's front differential driven by a Daihatsu 950cc 3 cylinder engine. as with all the X Prize entries their goal is 100 mpg+.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6omtd/jorysquibb/index.html
built by the dude from Maine in the photos for $2500 from two salvaged scooters, a 1987 Honda Elite 150 and a 1984 Elite 125. 85 mpg around town, 100+ at 40 mph when shooting for economy per the builder. 386 lbs. 40" track up front, 56" wheelbase. 53 mph on flat ground.
note the windshield wiper!
interestingly enough the guy was involved in building lead-acid EV conversion VW Bugs way back in the 1970s (25 mile range, 2500 lbs):
huge photo of the dude back in the 1970s at some hillclimb with the EV Bug here: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6omtd/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/untitled-1.jpg
his current project is helping to build a Maine entry to the Automotive X Prize. from what i could glean from his somewhat schizophrenic site it's going to be a 4 wheeler with tandem seating (ie front and back), two narrowly-spaced, undriven rear wheels, front wheel drive via a Kawasaki Mule's front differential driven by a Daihatsu 950cc 3 cylinder engine. as with all the X Prize entries their goal is 100 mpg+.
i hope no one who reads this ever considers buying a ZAP product. they are essentially a PR-only operation led by a group of self-serving con men. their sole product, the Zap Xebra, far underperforms its stated performance specs: instead of 40 mph and 40 miles try more like 32 mph and 15 miles. if there are no hills.
worse than simply making a subpar vehicle the company is headed by outright crooks. i wasn't aware of this Wired expose until today, only the (lack of) performance of their Xebra, but it's well worth the 7 pages read:
http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-04/ff_zapped?currentPage=all
worse than simply making a subpar vehicle the company is headed by outright crooks. i wasn't aware of this Wired expose until today, only the (lack of) performance of their Xebra, but it's well worth the 7 pages read:
http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-04/ff_zapped?currentPage=all
Ouch!
That reporter sure put the boot in!!
That reporter sure put the boot in!!
the House has published a draft and a summary of the Obama administration's proposed economic stimulus/bailout bill, titled the "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. in this post i will examine the provisions in this bill that are directly relevant to my topic of interest, alternative personal transportation:
$2 billion is provided for "alternative energy" R&D, demonstration, and deployment. this $2b encompasses "advanced batteries", but also explicitly included is at least $800m for biomass and $400m for geothermal. (draft, p69, DOE Energy Programs, section 1)
an additional $1 billion is provided for "expenses necessary for the manufacturing of advanced batteries". this seems to indicate that the lobbying efforts of the National Alliance for Advanced Transportation Battery Cell Manufacture, which asked for $2b to support US battery development, were halfway successful. (draft, p71, DOE Energy Programs, section 10, refers to Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, section 136(b)(1)(B))
$200 million is provided for grants to state, local governments, and "other entities" that are to encourage the use of plug-in and other varieties of electric vehicles; to provide grants for "qualified electric transportation projects with priority given to large-scale projects"; and to fund an education program to provide EV teaching materials to schools and establish a plug-in EV vehicle competition for colleges. (draft, p70, DOE Energy Programs, section 7, which refers to the "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007", section 131, summaries courtesy of eei.org)
$600 million and $400 million are provided to federal, and state and local governments, respectively, to help them modernize their vehicle fleets with alternative fuel automobiles. i hope this doesn't just mean flex-fuel Suburbans! (from the press summary, i ran out of patience trying to parse the draft bill's text)
$2 billion is provided for "alternative energy" R&D, demonstration, and deployment. this $2b encompasses "advanced batteries", but also explicitly included is at least $800m for biomass and $400m for geothermal. (draft, p69, DOE Energy Programs, section 1)
an additional $1 billion is provided for "expenses necessary for the manufacturing of advanced batteries". this seems to indicate that the lobbying efforts of the National Alliance for Advanced Transportation Battery Cell Manufacture, which asked for $2b to support US battery development, were halfway successful. (draft, p71, DOE Energy Programs, section 10, refers to Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, section 136(b)(1)(B))
$200 million is provided for grants to state, local governments, and "other entities" that are to encourage the use of plug-in and other varieties of electric vehicles; to provide grants for "qualified electric transportation projects with priority given to large-scale projects"; and to fund an education program to provide EV teaching materials to schools and establish a plug-in EV vehicle competition for colleges. (draft, p70, DOE Energy Programs, section 7, which refers to the "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007", section 131, summaries courtesy of eei.org)
$600 million and $400 million are provided to federal, and state and local governments, respectively, to help them modernize their vehicle fleets with alternative fuel automobiles. i hope this doesn't just mean flex-fuel Suburbans! (from the press summary, i ran out of patience trying to parse the draft bill's text)
back in post #858 i presented my own analysis of motorcycle/moped emissions vs. those of automobiles. today i found a presentation by the manager of the Aprilla brand (a Piaggio company) on the topic of motorcycle vs. car emissions.
the presentation can be seen here: http://www.acembike.org/motorcycles&society/pressreleases/MS3-Environment-LMercanti.pdf
i am inlining what i feel are the two most important slides. note the legend at the right of each graph. PC + LCV is passenger cars + light commercial vehicles, MC is motorcycles.
-------------------------------------
in other news, Vectrix, mentioned in post #10 of this thread, is introducing two new models. here's how their lineup stands:
Vectrix VX-1 (the original, now renamed). ~$11k USD. will go 100 km/h (62 mph), range up to 68 miles supposedly but more like 40 in reality. from my original post: 125 volt, 3.7 kW-hour NiMH battery pack that should last for 10 years, with a $3k replacement cost. charges to 80% in two hours.
Vectrix VX-1E. $8495 USD, coming in April 2009 supposedly. from the press release/intro article: "same platform and drive train as the original VX-1, yet features a lower price point and a more urban commuter driver profile with slightly less acceleration and top speed". i'm not quite sure how to interpret this -- it's the same, but not, and is cheaper?
Vectrix VX-2. $5,195 USD, coming in June 2009 supposedly.
---------------------------------
speaking of sundry chinese electric scoots, one is sold at Costco for the princely sum of $750 iirc:
Baja Motorsports BE500. http://www.bajamotorsportsonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=880
$750 at your local Costco with a return policy. "500W" electric hub motor, which totally does not jive with their claim of "2.04 hp" (1521W). claimed 20 mph and 30 mile range. weighs 200 lbs itself, rider weights up to 100 kg ok. lead acid batteries of unknown V and Ah.
note the pedals! they are included because you can't register this thing as a motorcycle as far as i know. instead it falls into the legal grey area of electric-assisted bikes, just like mine, only with more bodywork.
the presentation can be seen here: http://www.acembike.org/motorcycles&society/pressreleases/MS3-Environment-LMercanti.pdf
i am inlining what i feel are the two most important slides. note the legend at the right of each graph. PC + LCV is passenger cars + light commercial vehicles, MC is motorcycles.
-------------------------------------
in other news, Vectrix, mentioned in post #10 of this thread, is introducing two new models. here's how their lineup stands:
Vectrix VX-1 (the original, now renamed). ~$11k USD. will go 100 km/h (62 mph), range up to 68 miles supposedly but more like 40 in reality. from my original post: 125 volt, 3.7 kW-hour NiMH battery pack that should last for 10 years, with a $3k replacement cost. charges to 80% in two hours.
Vectrix VX-1E. $8495 USD, coming in April 2009 supposedly. from the press release/intro article: "same platform and drive train as the original VX-1, yet features a lower price point and a more urban commuter driver profile with slightly less acceleration and top speed". i'm not quite sure how to interpret this -- it's the same, but not, and is cheaper?
Vectrix VX-2. $5,195 USD, coming in June 2009 supposedly.
i for one would hope a 50cc motorcycle wouldn't weigh 429 lbs! but that's just me. the specs are getting dangerously low to the point of some perceived overlap with the sundry chinese electric scoots...
---------------------------------
speaking of sundry chinese electric scoots, one is sold at Costco for the princely sum of $750 iirc:
Baja Motorsports BE500. http://www.bajamotorsportsonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=880
$750 at your local Costco with a return policy. "500W" electric hub motor, which totally does not jive with their claim of "2.04 hp" (1521W). claimed 20 mph and 30 mile range. weighs 200 lbs itself, rider weights up to 100 kg ok. lead acid batteries of unknown V and Ah.
note the pedals! they are included because you can't register this thing as a motorcycle as far as i know. instead it falls into the legal grey area of electric-assisted bikes, just like mine, only with more bodywork.
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i don't think i've mentioned it here but it has been mentioned elsewhere on RM:
Ultra Motor A2B. product page, businessweek article, wired review, and a pretty good video that features it
$2600. 36V, 11.5 Ah. lithium. batteries stored in the downtube -- slick. "500W" brushless DC rear hub motor. full suspension, 20" wheels, ghetto suspension, fenders, built in rear rack. 20 mph (max permissible under federal law), 20 mile range claimed that can be doubled by buying an extra pack from them that mounts to the rear rack. see this dealer page for a photo with the extra battery.
all in all this looks like a good design to me! it addresses some of the shortcomings of my bike's design, namely battery storage/security and lack of suspension.
what my bike offers over it:
- cheaper (it's $2600, and i have a couple hundred dollars less net in my ride after selling unused components)
- more power as i don't have to adhere to fed. regulations. this means i can cruise at 23-25 mph while the A2B tops out at 20 mph.
- more battery and thus more range if speeds are held equal: i have 48 V x 12 Ah, 576 Wh. it has 36 V x 11.5 Ah, 414 Wh
- 26" wheels
- internally geared rear hub
- flexibility to mix and match electrical components
- ability to be stashed on the bike racks on all the buses around here (they have a 55 lb weight limit which my bike complies with once the battery/panniers are removed)
what it offers over my homebrewed bike:
- the support of a real company with dealers should something break
- suspension
- a good, central location for battery storage that is as secure as the rest of the bike
- looks very clean
- much better low end acceleration
Ultra Motor A2B. product page, businessweek article, wired review, and a pretty good video that features it
$2600. 36V, 11.5 Ah. lithium. batteries stored in the downtube -- slick. "500W" brushless DC rear hub motor. full suspension, 20" wheels, ghetto suspension, fenders, built in rear rack. 20 mph (max permissible under federal law), 20 mile range claimed that can be doubled by buying an extra pack from them that mounts to the rear rack. see this dealer page for a photo with the extra battery.
all in all this looks like a good design to me! it addresses some of the shortcomings of my bike's design, namely battery storage/security and lack of suspension.
what my bike offers over it:
- cheaper (it's $2600, and i have a couple hundred dollars less net in my ride after selling unused components)
- more power as i don't have to adhere to fed. regulations. this means i can cruise at 23-25 mph while the A2B tops out at 20 mph.
- more battery and thus more range if speeds are held equal: i have 48 V x 12 Ah, 576 Wh. it has 36 V x 11.5 Ah, 414 Wh
- 26" wheels
- internally geared rear hub
- flexibility to mix and match electrical components
- ability to be stashed on the bike racks on all the buses around here (they have a 55 lb weight limit which my bike complies with once the battery/panniers are removed)
what it offers over my homebrewed bike:
- the support of a real company with dealers should something break
- suspension
- a good, central location for battery storage that is as secure as the rest of the bike
- looks very clean
- much better low end acceleration
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I saw this down the street, not sure what it is but I want one!
Looks like a Mini Cooper, but I didn't get close enough to tell. I will check it out tomorrow for sure.
Looks like a Mini Cooper, but I didn't get close enough to tell. I will check it out tomorrow for sure.
Nah Not even close to a mini..... Think you'll find that it is a Japanese Daihatsu or Suzuki, they make flat deck versions of their micro vans.
We trialed a 4x4 version of one, one year at the beach as a light weight rescue vehicle that could take a stretcher on the back and still cope with sand dunes.
Was a good vehicle but was not able to cope with the ultra fine sand at our beach we ended up getting a Argo with tank tracks on it as nothing else could get over those dunes.
*edit*
Ah here's one..... Suzuki carry,Mini truck
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Hehehe amazing what you can find on that website for sale some times.........
Halftrack (M14)
wonder how it would go for shuttling?
Halftrack (M14)
wonder how it would go for shuttling?
I've seen those, but they aren't street legal in most states (I know they aren't legal here because I wanted one) and this has an Oregon plate on it.
I'll see what it is tomorrow. Looking at the lights and wheel, it doesn't look like other Jap rigs.
the new 2010 Prius has been unveiled (see post #889) both for US and Japanese consumption. despite this Toyota is allegedly going to continue to offer old-gen Prius for sale, at least in Japan at around 80% of the price of a 2010 Prius.
this is kind of odd even though it makes sense in that the tooling and such is already paid for. is it just because they have too much inventory? will this happen in the US as well?
this is kind of odd even though it makes sense in that the tooling and such is already paid for. is it just because they have too much inventory? will this happen in the US as well?
like the Aptera the Green Vehicles TRIAC hasn't come to fruition. yet. if ever. it was supposed to be on sale this summer yet no customer vehicles have been delivered. thumbs down.
the above photo is from a parade in los gatos so at least one vehicle exists... now the supposed specs are $22,995, 20 kW AC motor, 144 V 160 Ah of lithium, 3 wheels, a 5-speed manual, 80 mph top speed, 100 miles range. interesting that "stateside shipping" is a line item on the spec sheet. makes me think this is a chinese factory special...
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also, if any of you are in the market for a Toyota RAV4 EV (as in the Toyota-manufactured and supported variant -- yes, Toyota made an EV from 1997-2003) one is on eBay Motors at the moment. current bid is $30k.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2001-TOYOTA-RAV4-EV-Great-Shape-RAV4EV-Electric-Car_W0QQitemZ230319366102QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item230319366102&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:317|65:12|39:1|240:1308
longest url ever.
~$35k. sold new for $42k but with california and IRS rebates when it was new the total cost was $29-33k, so it's holding value quite well. here's an interesting fact about demand:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2001-TOYOTA-RAV4-EV-Great-Shape-RAV4EV-Electric-Car_W0QQitemZ230319366102QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item230319366102&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72:317|65:12|39:1|240:1308
longest url ever.
~$35k. sold new for $42k but with california and IRS rebates when it was new the total cost was $29-33k, so it's holding value quite well. here's an interesting fact about demand:
288 V of NiMH, 27.4 kWh worth per wikipedia. 50 kW. supposedly a 200 km range (126 mi). top speed of 79 mph. 6-8h to recharge. 0-60 mph around 18 seconds. one cool feature all RAV4 EVs have, besides factory engineering and support, is a timer that lets you select when the car will draw energy off the grid to recharge, thus allowing you to take advantage of off-peak rates.
The Polo is a nice car.
Any real life reports on the new VW diesel option from people driving them here in the US?
Any real life reports on the new VW diesel option from people driving them here in the US?