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This is what's wrong with The Industry™

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,756
5,657
Taper?
if you mean it's bolt holes had a machined stepped recess? they're made for the head of a standard chainring nut to sit in, Simply flip the ring over so the flat side is against the spider and the bolts sit in the recesses. The renthal logo will face inwards so be hidden but the ring will work fine. Saint M820 rings have the writing on the other side.


IIRC Saint 820/825 cranks did have a very slightly thicker spider than 810/815. (But those never had covers)
Shimano used similar *style* bolt covers on XTR double chainsets and their higher end (Ultegra/DuraAce) road chainsets. But I'm fairly sure the road versions wouldn't fit with the Saint spider profile at all. XTR had a different BCD to Saint so I wouldn't have thought they'd fit either.
Sorry, bevel or chamfer would have been better terms.
IMG_20240323_163956.jpg

Yeah I know a small section will drive it but being fat and lazy I have killed some chain ring nuts in the past when they came loose.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
829
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
It should be a little longer. Shimano could accomplish that without being too long and risking bottom-out. Ruling: moderately lame. In the days of chainring nuts I liked using a bench mounted belt sander to get overly long ones, then shaving them down to just the right length. I get the same pleasure from a steerer tube that just barely doesn't touch the headset top cap.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,668
5,587
UK
Sorry, bevel or chamfer would have been better terms.
View attachment 209402
Yeah I know a small section will drive it but being fat and lazy I have killed some chain ring nuts in the past when they came loose.
That's ready for the bin mate. reach inro the piggy bank and buy yourself a $4 NW ring off Alixpress. (DECKAS, SNAIL etc.)They're genuinely moar durable than Renthals and don't have any of their stupid "features"
And Yes. I've owned/used one of those renthal chainrings.
Also so long as you're using decent steel chainring bolts they don't come loose from being fat. Lazy yes. Fat/strong/powerful. No.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,668
5,587
UK
It should be a little longer. Shimano could accomplish that without being too long and risking bottom-out. Ruling: moderately lame. In the days of chainring nuts I liked using a bench mounted belt sander to get overly long ones, then shaving them down to just the right length. I get the same pleasure from a steerer tube that just barely doesn't touch the headset top cap.
Do you also wear really short tight shorts and your SCOTT bikes are all polished to a meticulous finish? :secret:

Ideally steerer tubes should always protrude from the stem to give maximum grip area and have a small spacer placed above. if you're anal AF grind down or use as close a spacer as you can find for minimal gap. Not the steerer tube.

For anyone with normal shorts or trousers I can confirm the M820 chainring bolt length works absolutely fine when used with the according Saint chainring and "most" normal 104 bcd NW chainrings flipped. (Fitted a M825 crankset with an aftermarket chainring to a young pinners brand new Trek session on Thursday afternoon).
As with most Shimano chainsets the parts were designed to fit together. This means tons of shimano cranksets will always work best with the corresponding genuine shimano chainring and this makes sense from a business sense for Shimano. Many will still work ok with aftermarket rings. Shimano don't really want you to know this. And why would they?
 
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HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,756
5,657
That's ready for the bin mate. reach inro the piggy bank and buy yourself a $4 NW ring off Alixpress. (DECKAS, SNAIL etc.)They're genuinely moar durable than Renthals and don't have any of their stupid "features"
And Yes. I've owned/used one of those renthal chainrings.
Also so long as you're using decent steel chainring bolts they don't come loose from being fat. Lazy yes. Fat/strong/powerful. No.
Haha, it's brand new in my eyes.
I'll have to try and find the NW one I'd worn some of the teeth down to half height.
I learnt my lesson with that, I was trackstanding on the road because it's fun to look like a roadie douche. Went to take off, the chain went snap and I went over the handlebar, hahaha!

Back to whining, my Norco Torrent is fucking great, but they put the bottle mount so low that I almost need to drop the seat to get the thing re-mounted.
IMG_20240324_100439.jpg

Yes I could change from a fidlock but it is the only system I have found in 20+ yrs that will keep a bottle in a cage on a hardtail. Specialized side exit was the second best, Tune carbocage and Topeak Ninja were the worst.

Velocity blunt 35 rims also belong in here, they are gone next weekend and will go straight in the recycling bin. I always wanted to try some, coz dirty bearded hipster.
Have a We Are One carbon rim for the front and an alloy Crank Brothers for the rear.
PXL_20240308_061331609_1.jpg
 
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canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,524
19,533
Canaderp
Haha, it's brand new in my eyes.
I'll have to try and find the NW one I'd worn some of the teeth down to half height.
I learnt my lesson with that, I was trackstanding on the road because it's fun to look like a roadie douche. Went to take off, the chain went snap and I went over the handlebar, hahaha!

Back to whining, my Norco Torrent is fucking great, but they put the bottle mount so low that I almost need to drop the seat to get the thing re-mounted.
View attachment 209429
Yes I could change from a fidlock but it is the only system I have found in 20+ yrs that will keep a bottle in a cage on a hardtail. Specialized side exit was the second best, Tune carbocage and Topeak Ninja were the worst.

Velocity blunt 35 rims also belong in here, they are gone next weekend and will go straight in the recycling bin. I always wanted to try some, coz dirty bearded hipster.
Have a We Are One carbon rim for the front and an alloy Crank Brothers for the rear.
How'd you find the freehub change on those hubs?

Maybe the one I have is off or something, but I only spun the locking side finger tight. If I use cone wrenches to try to get to 10nm (as printed on the end cap), there's too much drag.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,756
5,657
How'd you find the freehub change on those hubs?

Maybe the one I have is off or something, but I only spun the locking side finger tight. If I use cone wrenches to try to get to 10nm (as printed on the end cap), there's too much drag.
Ahhh, there was some swearing!
I ended up pushing the pawls down one by one with a cable tie then I would go in too quickly and I'd have to remove it and go again. You didn't pinch the wiper or whatever it is at the freehub? I had issues getting it to line up properly.

In regards to the tightening it was fine, did have to get a second 17mm cone spanner though.
It seemed odd that Novatec seem to really highlight that they use EZO bearings.
But neither freehub had EZOs in it, just the hub shell.
I will try and buy EZOs in future, I got great joy out of spinning those hubs in my hands, so smooth!
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,524
19,533
Canaderp
Ahhh, there was some swearing!
I ended up pushing the pawls down one by one with a cable tie then I would go in too quickly and I'd have to remove it and go again. You didn't pinch the wiper or whatever it is at the freehub? I had issues getting it to line up properly.

In regards to the tightening it was fine, did have to get a second 17mm cone spanner though.
It seemed odd that Novatec seem to really highlight that they use EZO bearings.
But neither freehub had EZOs in it, just the hub shell.
I will try and buy EZOs in future, I got great joy out of spinning those hubs in my hands, so smooth!
Nothing is pinched, it's strange. Oh well...it works.

Yeah it's a bit of an ass to get the pawls back in, without popping the rubber seal out. They don't spin in like some other hubs I've taken apart. I poked one in a bit which sounds like what you did as well :D

Learn from my mistake last year too...don't put liquid lube in there or it'll probably leak around that seal. It made a mess last summer. Grease seems way better for it.

Are Ezo bearings good? The ones in my front hub are still spinning smooth after 6 or so years.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,518
4,771
Australia
Back to whining, my Norco Torrent is fucking great, but they put the bottle mount so low that I almost need to drop the seat to get the thing re-mounted.

Yes I could change from a fidlock but it is the only system I have found in 20+ yrs that will keep a bottle in a cage on a hardtail. Specialized side exit was the second best, Tune carbocage and Topeak Ninja were the worst.
Do these thingies work with the Fidlock mounts?

 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,756
5,657
Do these thingies work with the Fidlock mounts?

Yeah I might get one of them.
If I was keeping the frame long term I'd just put another Rivnut in it.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,976
2,189
not in Whistler anymore :/
Do these thingies work with the Fidlock mounts?


2 for less than half
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,108
3,822
sw ontario canada
Do these thingies work with the Fidlock mounts?

Cool. They finally made this. I made one of these several years ago to relocate my Fabric bottle mounting tabs.
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,666
500
Sea to Sky BC
Do these thingies work with the Fidlock mounts?

Yeah, no clue re. fidlock, but I have these on a couple of bikes to help fit with bigger bottles, alternate mounts, and fitting frame bags on the roadie and they work as advertised and are solid AF. If fidlocks just use typical bottle cage bosses then you're probably GTG.
 

scrublover

Turbo Monkey
Sep 1, 2004
2,921
6,287
Cool. They finally made this. I made one of these several years ago to relocate my Fabric bottle mounting tabs.
they've been around a while. roll you rown with some alu flat stock. maybe not too much booze before you cut/drill/tap/file things.

there are a variety of cages around that will bolt on lower down. if you want higher up/taller than stock options, the cage mount options are it though. nice.

opens up many options. very nice if you want to wear a pack as little as possible.

IMG_0065.jpg
IMG_0067.jpg
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,756
5,657
Nothing is pinched, it's strange. Oh well...it works.

Yeah it's a bit of an ass to get the pawls back in, without popping the rubber seal out. They don't spin in like some other hubs I've taken apart. I poked one in a bit which sounds like what you did as well :D

Learn from my mistake last year too...don't put liquid lube in there or it'll probably leak around that seal. It made a mess last summer. Grease seems way better for it.

Are Ezo bearings good? The ones in my front hub are still spinning smooth after 6 or so years.
I use Slickoleum with a bit of float fluid mixed in to it, they seem to combine really easily.

No idea if EZO bearings are good, they just feel really smooth and I like that.
With the amount I ride any brand of bearing will last for years. I've only ever had dramas with ISIS BB bearings, I'd do two BBS a year and bearings in my Corsair. But the Corsair had massive bearings, massive stiffness and massive misalignment, it would pop seals out of bearings after maybe 20 rides and break two pivot bolts.
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
1,996
716
Haha, it's brand new in my eyes.
I'll have to try and find the NW one I'd worn some of the teeth down to half height.
I learnt my lesson with that, I was trackstanding on the road because it's fun to look like a roadie douche. Went to take off, the chain went snap and I went over the handlebar, hahaha!

Back to whining, my Norco Torrent is fucking great, but they put the bottle mount so low that I almost need to drop the seat to get the thing re-mounted.
View attachment 209429


Velocity blunt 35 rims also belong in here, they are gone next weekend and will go straight in the recycling bin.
View attachment 209430
The reason those rimz suck is cause you left the reflekters on them.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,756
5,657
Because they will most likely fall off when riding real trails and just become more plastic garbage in the woods.
It's lucky for the woods that I don't ride any real trails.
I do agree that it is far better of in one of these piles in another country rather than in the bush in Aus, coz white people can't see it, and that's what counts.
1711447647975.png
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,481
422
Ali express being able to sell things like this with zero repercussions is pretty poor in general

 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,999
9,661
AK
Ali express being able to sell things like this with zero repercussions is pretty poor in general

So they finally solved 35mm bars being too stiff.

Plus, they just might be able to experience pain at the pro level, as indicated by the bike.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,361
11,522
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Ali express being able to sell things like this with zero repercussions is pretty poor in general

what’s the problem?
I mean, they are conducting highly sophisticated and easily replicable Destructive Physical Analysis.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,447
20,248
Sleazattle
Ali express being able to sell things like this with zero repercussions is pretty poor in general

Wait, I can't rely on $3.95 bike parts to be of high quality?

NFW
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,481
422
Yes, but just think of how incredible the vibration damping will be up to the second of your catastrophic facial reconstruction!
Test riders say that after the spinal cord damage, hand numbness wasn’t an issue! Certain participants will experience further weight reductions due to loss of teeth and blood! Win win
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,752
442
MA
Ali express being able to sell things like this with zero repercussions is pretty poor in general

I can't translate but is it confirmed that those are ali bars?
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,028
1,165
El Lay
These break if set up to offset the bottle a significant amount. The aluminum stock will flex until they crack/shear. They are not built for the rigors of mountain biking. Mine lasted under 2 months on a hardtail with a 24 oz bottle.

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