[Toshi]

3 words, visibility repeated twice plus visibility.

That's what the dorky flag is for. I'm not sure how it'd do on the greenway, which is gravel and dirt for a good deal of it. Depends on the wheel size, I guess. If I had to take paved surfaces I have a pretty good route from my house to work. It's just house->kids' preschool->work that doesn't work out.

 

[Serial Midget]

That's what the dorky flag is for. I'm not sure how it'd do on the greenway, which is gravel and dirt for a good deal of it. Depends on the wheel size, I guess. If I had to take paved surfaces I have a pretty good route from my house to work. It's just house->kids' preschool->work that doesn't work out.

For street cred the flag should say "My other bike is a Yeti".

 

[Toshi]

 

[Toshi]

I went way the fuck north to Fort Collins today. I do not like that city. Could have been anywhere in rural Utah or southern Idaho, filled with sprawl and lots of Mormon looking white people.

On the plus side it does have Rocky Mountain Recumbents, which is a large but disorganized place filled with the scent of pot and a bunch of recumbent bikes and trikes. I test rode two this morning, taking over an hour doing figure 8s, starting and stopping, and trying in vain to trackstand.

Rans Rocket. The one I rode wasn't like the one in the photo in that it had a 20" wheel up front and a 26" in the rear. Similar high steering setup.

Pros:

- pretty light
- short wheelbase is entertaining and no restrictions on steering lock like any normal bike
- seat is low enough that I could get a foot down without contorting myself
- can take a rear rack

Cons:

- high steer setup is annoying in that the bars try to stab one's legs in tight turns--the one I rode had bars that swooped back, not tiny straight bars as in the photo.
- even with a 20" front wheel there's heel overlap in tight turns, exactly when one does not want it while pedaling up something steep
- slow speed handling is still awkward: I could ride at a walking pace but couldn't trackstand this or the other one for the life of me

HP Velotechnik Speed Machine. The one I rode had underseat steering just like this one in the photo but had a single ring in the front, a SRAM 3 speed internally geared hub, and a normal rear derailleur/cassette setup on top of that for a normal gear range.

Pros:

- more stable feeling than the Rans even at moderate speed
- suspension could be nice given that one can't stand on the pedals, as it were, and comes with a rear rack that works with said suspension
- under seat steering is a very natural position for one's arms and hands

Cons:

- seat height is awkwardly high, forcing me to do a mini back bridge type maneuver each time I wanted to get my feet down, such as a light. Recall that the under seat steering means one can't put a leg out to the side, it's all out front in between the pedals and the seat
- limited lock on the steering, limited by the under seat handlebar fouling on the side of the seat. This was SUPER annoying in low speed riding/figure 8s
- even adjusted to its shortest position the foot boom was too long for my stubby legs so I had to kind of slouch in the hammock-seat to make things work

 

[Toshi]

In case it's not clear the overall verdict is that my soul is safe: I shall not be on a recumbent.

 

[StiHacka]

In case it's not clear the overall verdict is that my soul is safe: I shall not be on a recumbent.

Right. You shall buy a boat.

 

[Toshi]

Nonono. Rental only for RVs, planes/helicopters, boats. I'd make an exception if I retired on the waterfront somewhere and drove the boat every day (to/from San Juans?).

 

[Toshi]

Just installed: Rachio smart irrigation controller, 2nd generation. This will be easier to use and should take the weather into account when coming up with my irrigation schedule.

$200 - $100 Denver Water rebate, and if I'd been quicker on the draw I could have gotten it for $50 cheaper from Amazon. Given that my water + sewer bills in irrigation months are $90-180 this should pay for itself quickly.

 

[dump]

What happens in Denver if you don't irrigate your grass?
And is there a difference between the water you drink and the water you pour on your yard?

 

[Toshi]

Brown dustpile, perhaps? Outside of irrigated areas the landscape is pretty brown. The grass might brown up and get hardier or it might just straight up die.

I wish we had graywater irrigation at homes–big commercial places like my workplace and the adjacent golf course irrigate with non-potable water but I don't have that option.

 

[Serial Midget]

What happens in Denver if you don't irrigate your grass?
And is there a difference between the water you drink and the water you pour on your yard?

Neighbors complain?

 

[StiHacka]

Wowzy I pay less than $30/quarter in my Boston 'burb, but I don't bother with sprinklers and collect rainwater for garden and plants.

 

[Toshi]

Yeti SB5C thoughts:

- way too much bob when the shock is unlocked, much more than the VPP Santa Cruz last week
- felt adequately plush on the descents
- geometry felt quite similar to the Santa Cruz: just a little tendency to flop on climbs but the front end would stay down
- 32 x 42 is inadequate for my slow ass on sustained grades. I sprint up hard sections, go anaerobic, mutter a swear or two to myself, then stop to catch my breath

 

[Serial Midget]

Oh. I predicted you would buy one tomorrow. What do we have to do to get you into a bike? Today.

 

[Westy]

Yeti SB5C thoughts:

- way too much bob when the shock is unlocked, much more than the VPP Santa Cruz last week
- felt adequately plush on the descents
- geometry felt quite similar to the Santa Cruz: just a little tendency to flop on climbs but the front end would stay down
- 32 x 42 is inadequate for my slow ass on sustained grades. I sprint up hard sections, go anaerobic, mutter a swear or two to myself, then stop to catch my breath

I hope you are bringing a pump and fiddling with the suspension a bit if you are testing out bikes. Good idea to explore the range of too much bob to too stiff to get a better idea of how the bike feels. No out of the box setup will work for everyone as COG, riding/pedaling style can vary wildly. Not trying to defend the Yeti, but if you end up buying a bike based on a test ride at make sure it was based off of a decent setup.

I brought a selection of stem lengths when I tested bikes out, seat position adjusted appropriately. IMO having your COG in the right spot is extremely important on a MTB for technical riding.

 

[Toshi]

I bust out my shock pump and gave the Yeti's rear shock some more air and will bring it in my pack tomorrow. Fiddling with the shock will give me another excuse to catch my breath here and there anyway.

 

[dan-o]

Where are you renting from Toshi? I may do this when I come to see the family if I can find an XL with a decent build.

 

[Toshi]

Golden Bike Shop. They list what they rent and sizes on their site.

Westy: the Yeti felt much better with 300 psi vs 225. Sag looked ok to me based off 10-15 shock stroke per manual. Still felt better with the shock in the middle lockout position.

 

[Toshi]

I couldn't really perceive any difference in reach on the Bronson and SB5C despite both having similar stems and what appeared to be the same bars. This kind of confused me since Nick and Stoney alike said the Yeti should be a longer bike. Welp:

http://www.yeticycles.com/bikes/sb5c
http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en/us/bronson

Reach (M on the above):
Bronson: 425 mm
SB5C: 413 mm

Effective top tube length (which may have been tweaked as at least the Yeti had a non-layback seatpost):
Bronson: 596 mm with a 74 degree seat tube angle, or 23.5"
Yeti: 602 mm with a 72.5 degree seat tube angle, or 23.7"

Even chainstay length is similar, with 17.0" on the Santa Cruz and 17.4" on the Yeti. Standover is lower on the SC, though: 28.8" vs 30.1". I didn't nut myself on either bike, though, so that's not a huge deal.

Cliffs Notes: They felt pretty damn similar in terms of geometry because they're pretty damn similar.

 

[Toshi]

I just can't hack it on steep trails (e.g. Belcher) with the 32 x 42 x 27.5" setup that these demo bikes have. Perhaps in a year or two. I also don't really care about fashion. Therefore I think I will buck the trend and run a 2 x 11 setup instead of 1x.

If I'm going that route and because I like techno-nerd stuff, then why not Di2? M8050 XT Di2 should be out soon (Chain Reaction claimed July 2016)... It would offer a similar one-shifter experience as a 1x setup but would give a great 26 x 40 or even 42 low end. (11-46 is only for 1x.) I suppose I could go 11-50 1x instead but that'd be at the expense of some big gaps between ratios.

30 x 50 would be even shorter than 26 x 42, but even that 26 x 42 x 27.5 < 24 x 32 x 26 as in ye olden days.



Update: Race Face makes 30, 28, and even 26t single chainrings. http://www.jensonusa.com/Race-Face-Cinch-Narrow-Wide-Chainring . Problem solved since I don't need top end speed. Still is an overwhelming world of bike choices! I have Pivot and Santa Cruz demo days on the calendar and will try out a Megatrail as well for kicks.

 

[Toshi]

50t looks ridiculous, for the record:

 

[Toshi]

Relevant to my prior water fording posts and videos:

https://www.inverse.com/article/17189-elon-musk-says-you-can-ride-the-tesla-model-s-like-a-boat-for-a-very-short-amount-of-ti

We *def* don't recommended this, but Model S floats well enough to turn it into a boat for short periods of time. Thrust via wheel rotation.

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 19, 2016

 

[Toshi]

Tomorrow morning's agenda:

- get Land Cruiser emissions tested (have to do it every two years and it's been two years since I moved here) to allow me to renew its registration, which is now a reasonable $90 since it's officially old
- perhaps conduct some research or do some writing
- test ride and procure if desired a Specialized AWOL Elite for commute purposes:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/adventure/awol/awol-elite/106555

It comes stock with a 42 mm tire and can take 50+ so my 47 mm Schwalbes should slot right in there. What it'll offer is the proper size (assuming I buy the proper size), drop bars to minimize frontal area (as opposed to my current cut down 800 mm bars, 780 mm or so?), and both braze-ons for and actual racks and fenders galore for a back-sweat-free commute once I pop on some panniers.

 

[Westy]

Golden Bike Shop. They list what they rent and sizes on their site.

Westy: the Yeti felt much better with 300 psi vs 225. Sag looked ok to me based off 10-15 shock stroke per manual. Still felt better with the shock in the middle lockout position.

I am going to try to be polite here. As rider weight increases, so does the required pressure, rebound damping and compression damping. The low speed damping in shocks is kind of a non linear threshold circuit. I am guessing that the effective level of low speed threshold for someone at 150 lbs and wide open, is probably equivalent to you at the trail or climb setting, and my older portlier self for that matter.

All of the Yeti reviews I have read were written by someone less than 170 lbs. They all claim that they could climb wide open with little to no bob. That is not going to hold true for someone heavier. It all depends on who the shock is tuned for. But that is the beauty of the different settings. As long as the bike didn't feel harsh, the trail or climb setting maybe more ideal for you.

 

[Toshi]

I thought about that. The only other adjustment that was obvious on that shock was the rebound damping and I didn't want to screw with that. It is entirely possible that the damping was overwhelmed by the pressure I had to run to get proper sag.

 

[Westy]

I thought about that. The only other adjustment that was obvious on that shock was the rebound damping and I didn't want to screw with that. It is entirely possible that the damping was overwhelmed by the pressure I had to run to get proper sag.

More pressure will also require more rebound damping. Not enough rebound will cause poor pedaling. Rebound is pretty easy to get in the ball park. Sit/slam down on the seat with as much force as you are comfortable with. An under damped bike will oscillate. Add more rebound until it just returns to your sag position, this is the critically damped point. I like to add a few more clicks of rebound after that. It pedals better and is less likely to send you nose down if shit gets hairy. Too much rebound and the rear will settle deep in its travel after multiple big hits. A little bit of this is beneficial as it slacks the bike out a bit and stabilizes it in more technical situations, too much makes for a harsh ride.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/oscda2.html

 

[Toshi]

It seemed that compression damping was what was lacking, although there could have been some oscillation from under rebound damping as well. Either that or I mash the pedals more than the average bear, which certainly is possible on 32 x 42 x Belcher's steep grade.

 

[Toshi]

Relevant to my prior water fording posts and videos:

https://www.inverse.com/article/17189-elon-musk-says-you-can-ride-the-tesla-model-s-like-a-boat-for-a-very-short-amount-of-ti

 

[Westy]

It seemed that compression damping was what was lacking, although there could have been some oscillation from under rebound damping as well. Either that or I mash the pedals more than the average bear, which certainly is possible on 32 x 42 x Belcher's steep grade.

Pedaling like frankenstein will complicate things. Do you ride with flats?

I have found that dropping my elbows helped with a smoother pedal stroke, even when in too big of a gear. I have no good explanation of why, so it may not work for anyone else.

 

[Toshi]

Pedaling like frankenstein will complicate things. Do you ride with flats?

SPDs for years, except for the years when I went to Time pedals. (I switched back after bending an axle and deciding that mud isn't an issue outside of the northwest, but that pedal had seen much use on my Canfield F1.)

 

[Toshi]

The breadth of options out there even in a given category (125 mm-ish slack, long 27.5" trailbikes) is overwhelming given my chronically hypomanic "must understand all options first" brain.

 

[Toshi]

I test rode a Specialized AWOL like the one above. Medium size, 2015 model. I did not come home with it.

My impressions were that the front triangle was about 1.5" too long and the bars about 2" too high due to that big ol' headtube and high stack headset. This feeling persisted even after putting all of the spacers on top of the stem.

On the upside it looked really good and the ride harshness with 40 or 42 mm tires on there was very tolerable.

After looking at a few other bikes on the racks at Turin Bicycle Shop (in downtown here in Denver) I then hopped on a 54 cm Specialized Diverge. It looked pretty much like this but with a lower seat height due to my short legs, making for much more of an even bar to seat relationship:

It was pretty nice, a road bike with discs, a slacker head angle, and enough room for 30 mm tires with fenders (perhaps 35 mm without fenders). It also was very stiff, for better or worse. Although nice I quickly decided that that's not the tool I want for commuting on a gravel and dirt route.

I did like the geometry on that Diverge, though, which felt much more comfortable than the super long and tall front end of the AWOL.

Therefore between cases this afternoon I'm going to map out that geometry and see if I can find a Surly or the like that matches it, with the idea being to rebuild my 29er as a drop bar bike with a new frame and fork, new controls, but the same wheelset and drivetrain otherwise. Hmm, I guess that's not going to work with my straight bar controls. Perhaps this is a bad idea. Harumph.

 

[Serial Midget]

Yeti SB5C thoughts:

- way too much bob when the shock is unlocked, much more than the VPP Santa Cruz last week
- felt adequately plush on the descents
- geometry felt quite similar to the Santa Cruz: just a little tendency to flop on climbs but the front end would stay down
- 32 x 42 is inadequate for my slow ass on sustained grades. I sprint up hard sections, go anaerobic, mutter a swear or two to myself, then stop to catch my breath

I had my LBS help me out with dialing in the SB6, it turns out that I created the bob myself by running the rear end too plush. Today with faster rebound and more PSI I had no issues with bobbing on sustained grade or technical climbs and found it easy to keep the nose down. I checked my rubber bands and found I had utilized about 80% of available travel which seems reasonable for the trails around here.

 

[Toshi]

the idea being to rebuild my 29er as a drop bar bike with a new frame and fork, new controls, but the same wheelset and drivetrain otherwise. Hmm, I guess that's not going to work with my straight bar controls. Perhaps this is a bad idea

Apparently this is possible albeit not straightforward: https://www.singularcycles.com/2013/01/21/drop-bars-and-disc-brakes-on-a-mountain-bike-a-primer/ . Leverage ratios on the front derailleur seem like they'd mess things up, although as Shimano's hydraulic road brakes seem to be based off of the same XT hydraulic discs I run maybe just maybe STI hydraulic levers would work.

 

[Toshi]

New commuter bike plan:

Reuse brakes, wheels, rear shifter/rear derailleur/cassette, seat, pedals, tires from my current 29er commuter.

Soma Juice frame
Surly Ogre fork
Shimano Alfine crankset (single ring, 39t to go with my 11-36 cassette)
Funky-ass Soma Clarence handlebar, which I may hate or love
Tubus front rack with Ortlieb panniers
+ random parts here and there to round things out (Thomson post, Salsa seatpost clamp, Cane Creek zero stack headset, Planet Bike 29er fenders, new housing, etc.)

This would let me keep my current wheelset, for better or worse, while keeping the exact same rolling stock. I like my 47 mm tires on my gravel and dirt commute and this wouldn't mess with it. This also solves the problem of what to do with the 29er: after stripping these parts I'd be left with a shitty fork, headset, seatpost, and triple crankset, which I could eBay for a pittance or simply throw away.

This would also allow for adding in a nice wheelset in future years where I'm not saving up for other things as simultaneously.

 

[StiHacka]

For a commuter, I would consider an internal geared hub like the Alfine.

This looks like a winner. http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/bistro-8v-dlx-city-bikes.htm?gclid=COPKi62Hvc0CFY5Zhgod-FkFIA

 

[Serial Midget]

You could also give the 29r to a worthy party and avoid the whole Franken Bike thing entirely.

 

[Toshi]

I'm just going with those cranks (since they're $86 including crankset, chainring, guard, spindle, and BB). Their Alfine branding is incidental.

If I were starting from a clean slate I'd use an Alfine 11 speed hub + Gates carbon belt drive, but since I have an XT derailleur, shifter, and cassette already + usable wheelset with freehub it doesn't make sense.

1 x 10 would probably be a nice setup for my commute, with 39 x 36t on the low end and 39 x 11t on the high. I may have to stand for one short steep climb (oh, the horrors!) out from under the railroad trestle but everything else should be in the middle of the cassette.

 

[Toshi]

You could also give the 29r to a worthy party and avoid the whole Franken Bike thing entirely.

I prefer to think of it is "building something suited for my particular tastes" rather than "Frankenbike". Both are probably equally valid takes, though.

 

[Serial Midget]

I'm trying to convince myself that I would ride a Pashley Gov'nor to work... it's only a mile but I know I won't.