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Update on the Tokul situation

juice

Monkey
Nov 11, 2003
189
0
Seattle
An update on the situation out at Tokul East.

I was recently contacted by the lead forester for Hancock Forest Resources, the company that owns most of the Tokul East, Tokul West, and Griffin Creek areas. The folks at Hancock were concerned about recent trail building activity that included some TTFs such as ladder bridges, dirt jumps and drops. As a result, Hancock posted several trails as closed to public access.

The folks I talked to at Hancock were pleasant, and indicated they welcome public use of their land as long as the use stays within their guidelines.

I was told that Hancock does allow non-motorized public access to their land. However, they do not allow any trail structures to be built out there. Their insurance policy does cover public recreation, but does not cover any improvements or trail features.

I put the word out to local trail builders and let those folks decide how to proceed. The people active at Tokul understand Hancock's needs, and are going to go out there and clean up the trails to fit within Hancock's use guidelines. As a result, Hancock will take down the closure signs once the trail features are removed and cleaned up.

It is important to note that there is consensus from the local trail builders about how to deal with the trails out there. They understand that keeping access to the trails means that future trails must be dirt-only. Any decommissioning of the features out there is fully supported by the local builders, and they are probably participating in the clean up of those trails.

I think Hancock will probably remove the closure signs after they see that the TTFs have been removed and new features haven't sprung up to replace them. I'm pretty sure that someone will update the BBTC trail guide as soon as the closure signs are gone - keep on eye on there for when we can start riding the closed trails again.

Trail Guide: http://bbtc.org/trails/

Let me know if you have any questions about this, but the long and short of it is that local riders are working to keep those trails open to bikes.

Justin

justin (at) bbtc.org
206-524-2900 - the BBTC World Headquarters
 
Jun 18, 2004
945
0
1. the signs that they put up there a few weeks ago spell out your post...

2. I thought posting anything about tokul on here was a no-no... it sure lead to many a nasty gram for me
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
1. the signs that they put up there a few weeks ago spell out your post...

2. I thought posting anything about tokul on here was a no-no... it sure lead to many a nasty gram for me
1. i think it's important to let people know the whole deal. If Juice can work to get it open to everybody again, it's not going to be a big deal anymore. Walk away no harm done other than losing quality contributions and the trail being sanitized.
Without Justin goin in and getting the people back at the table Hancock could have continued to play hard ball and kept the trails closed permanantly to the Horse folk who were riding those trails before us.

This was a political nightmare in that respect as you're going to have alot of people flustered. But in another year it's just going to be an example of how to be careful working with land managers, and not really a big deal in the scheme of things. Most folk are going to forget about it, (if it opens back up)

2 So you built some stuff i take it? i dunno looking at it from afar, Hancock is the same company that stopped the Multiple Sclerosis Mountain Bike Ride that enabled us to donate to a good cause. They didn't want the liability or something similar(i'm not sure their official reason, i just know they decided to not allow it to happen on their land no more)... So looking at it now it's not suprising they pulled a knee jerk reaction like this. But it's a good thing we have organization to figure out a way to work through this companies restrictive policies. yes i know it's their land they can do whatever, that's another argument. But that doesn't keep their policy from sucking in my book.
As far as getting nasty grams to you. In my opinion trailbuilders there made a mistake in thinking things were on the up and up. To be honest i could have easily been out there with you or someone else for a day or two helping you out if i hadn't been so busy... i had assumed things were good.
But if i had built out there i would have taken the critisism and moved on. Mistakes are not a big deal if you learn from them, then they can be positive things in the long run. If i had built out there i would ignore the more heated critics as being too high strung, because really i've made worse mistakes in my life than building cool features in the sticks, and i'm sure i'll make more... Hate to sound cheesy but it's really a case of don't hate the player, hate the game...

i honestly hope we can enjoy any trailbuilders hard work with the future opportunities that present themselves.

So to summarize i think it's pretty important to spell out to everybody what's real and what's not. Communication can help prevent alot of b.s.

And i hope people climb off your back unless for whatever reason you want to keep them their, you can pack em all to work. You'd be able to take the carpool lane....
 
Jun 18, 2004
945
0
I didn't build anything... I just was taken there....

and every time that place is mentioned on here I either get length emails saying don't do this, don't do that, don't take people there, remove your post, you suck, don't tell about it don't, scare the horses... blah blah blah...

(of course I know all that, I'm almost 39 yrs old!, and I've been riding mtn bikes since '89, freeriding for 3 yrs)

the truth is that nobody was ever told not to ride there...

the chainsaws and signs ballantly said just to not to re-build there...
my only mistake is responding to posts/emails about it...

I ride there about 4x a month for about 3 hrs a time... I've been doing so since about March I think... I know the area well for a city folk... I gotta go, my ride is here
 

juice

Monkey
Nov 11, 2003
189
0
Seattle
Tokul is a legal place to ride - the few trails that are currently signed as closed being the exception. I think the flak you got from posting was because of the trail features that caused this situation. Folks wanted to keep them on the down-low because I think they kind of knew that boundaries were being pushed a wee bit.

<side note>
Just to clear the air - I'm starting to think the Hancock kicking out the MS folks has become a bit of urban legend. Hancock did have some concerns about the ride, but MS pulled out on their own before these issues could be worked out. My understanding is that the MS mountain bike ride didn't make much money for them and they wanted to focus on the more lucrative Road 150 ride. They are, after all, trying to raise money to cure one helluva nasty disease. I can't really blame them on this front as I personally have a few friends with MS.
</side note>
 

carbuncle

Monkey
Dec 2, 2004
364
0
Edmonds, WA
While there are a bunch of interesting ironies to the situation juice is describing, it's good to know that feathers are being smoothed and the singletrack is still rideable out there. I only got one look at the referenced trails (builders: nice work, it was a real hoot the one time we rode it) but there seemed to be a boatload of cool XC trails out there. So bottom line is, if we want to just trailride we are good to go, eh? Good news, that. And at least one of the closed lines should be able to be opened within the new guidelines with little difficulty, if anyone wants some help on a weekend feel free to PM/email me for free labor.
 
Jun 18, 2004
945
0
Good news, that. And at least one of the closed lines should be able to be opened within the new guidelines with little difficulty, if anyone wants some help on a weekend feel free to PM/email me for free labor.
I would help out also...

the thing being that the trails go through the mud bog...

usually that's what gets building elevated features started...

building or rebuilding a trail through a bog is asking for all sorts of trouble... not to mention unethical to most mtn bikers...

Maybe there is a way around it, or maybe I'm missing something... feel free to let me know...
 
Jun 18, 2004
945
0
I suppose if enought people wanted to placing a path of stones through the thing (bog) that wouldn't be building an elevated feature...

Not saying I'm gonna run out and start work on this...
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
So I was right... what ever
Don't ask me? i haven't ridden there in years anyways.:imstupid:

And really there is not right or wrong.... This is the internet.:monkey:

All i know is that the whole situation as a whole could have been alot worse. And if people work to make things better, they will get better, if not, the won't.

i'm honestly confused over your deal man, it sounds like a personal beef with you and other people? But if it makes you feel any better, sounds like your right... Tell em i said so and to get off your back, if that'll help.:imstupid:
 
Jun 18, 2004
945
0
i'm honestly confused over your deal man, it sounds like a personal beef with you and other people? But if it makes you feel any better, sounds like your right... Tell em i said so and to get off your back, if that'll help.:imstupid:
Apparently it's nothing that can be communicated effectively via posts, emails, or PM's... or leading bbtc ride for that matter... the place is something of a hot potato...

Its the power of the internet communication... and how it is often not very ineffective...

So unless there is a sanctioned work party sometime, Ill be better off just keeping my mouth shut about it...
 

Borneo

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
1,010
0
Duvall
I post work parties out there and elsewhere from time to time. Should be plenty this fall/winter as that's trail repair season.

(BTW: Going through the bog would be harder than going around.)

"Sanctioned" is a delicate word. But, that's another thread.
 
Jun 18, 2004
945
0
I post work parties out there and elsewhere from time to time. Should be plenty this fall/winter as that's trail repair season.

(BTW: Going through the bog would be harder than going around.)

"Sanctioned" is a delicate word. But, that's another thread.
What would you use in place of "sanctioned"?