[manimal]

What is your take on this ideology? I personally have mixed opinions about this matter. One side of me says that when you come to live in a new country, legally or not, you should at least make an attempt to learn the native language and not expect everyone else to accomodate you. On the other hand, our country was built on immigrants coming from far off lands bringing their cultures and ideals to this great melting pot and we should accomodate that.

Either way...I still get pissed when i have to choose English or Spanish before i can make my ATM transaction:angry:

Discuss:

 

[bikeCOLORADO]

It pisses me off too - having to choose English or Spanish before going through a telephone menu system, ATM, ect.

This is the United States, our language is American English. I believe very much in diversity, cultural differences and trying to maintain your cultural background.

But - Learn to speak English! I can not believe all the crap and money that's being sucked up in California trying to care for the Spanish speaking population!

 

[LordOpie]

If an individual business wants to offer their services in more than one language, cool. But I don't think our gov't. should have to provide documents of any sort in more than one language.

 

[LoboDelFuego]

Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
This is the United States, our language is American English.

The US has no official language. We speak English because the majority of the country does. The government is mostly operated by english speaking individuals, and as such, most documents are made in english. Therefore, in order to become a citizen, you must demonstrate a small knowledge of English.

Businesses are offering services in other languages because it reaches more customers. If anyone is annoyed by foreign languages, then perhaps you should have tried to make an effort and learn one in high school so that you would understand and be able to communicate with people all over the world. I think many americans dont like the idea that other people in their country are speaking another language because it makes them feel left out.

There was some big controversy over this a few yeas ago, im not sure if it was in California or in Florida, where a school decided to teach all its courses in spanish since 85%+ of the student population was hispanic and most of the teachers were also of hispanic background or with knowledge of spanish. I think this makes for a more culturally diverse nation that wil encourage peple to learn new languages and maybe break down some walls of ignorance.

 

[laura]

i thought we didnt have an "official" national language. just everyone speaks english. i personally love it. i like to pick the spanish version of everything just to see if i can translate. i traveled over seas and didnt know any of the languages in any of the countries i went to. luckily, everyone knew a little english. i want to be bi lingual(sp?) i think everyone should be able to speak light spanish. its good for you. keeps you well rounded. all over the world people know how to speak american english. its about time we give a little too.

 

[Mocha]

Originally posted by manimal

Either way...I still get pissed when i have to choose English or Spanish before i can make my ATM transaction:angry:

Discuss:

Yeah, that one extra button you have to push must really put a strain on you

Sorry, but Trudeau named Canada a multicultural country many years ago. I quite like hearing all the different languages around me. Also, I don't speak fluent french, but I certainly don't see it as a big deal when I have to make a choice at the atm.

 

[T0mo]

i don't really care too much except for when i try to order food at mcdonalds or taco bell. i think that if people have a job where they need to interact with other people all day then they should need to know the language that the majority of people speak(in this case it would be english).

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Mocha
Yeah, that one extra button you have to push must really put a strain on you

Sorry, but Trudeau named Canada a multicultural country many years ago. I quite like hearing all the different languages around me. Also, I don't speak fluent french, but I certainly don't see it as a big deal when I have to make a choice at the atm.

i'm not saying i'm neccesarily against it, as a matter of fact, i worked as a spanish interpreter at medevil times in florida for nearly a year. i'm not ignorant, just curious as to everyone elses opinions on it.

i HAVE traveled abroad to MANY countries and very few had signs in both their native language and english, except in the tourist areas......just food for thought.

i have no problem with dual language areas, i do have a problem with people that refuse to learn the native language because it's just easier to have companies staff interpreters and put literature in dual languages. there is a fine line here.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by manimal
i worked as a spanish interpreter at medevil times in florida

Dude!

Could you call up some of your old knight buddies for me, and let me joust with someone? Or bash some stuff with a mourning star? C'mon please?

Oh, and about the language stuff. Foreigners are just trying to be difficult. I mean c'mon, i know 4 year olds who can speak perfect english. How hard could it be?

 

[Mocha]

Originally posted by manimal
i'm not saying i'm neccesarily against it, as a matter of fact, i
i HAVE traveled abroad to MANY countries and very few had signs in both their native language and english, except in the tourist areas......just food for thought.

Keep in mind that I live in Canada, and I have no idea what the situation is there....but... Are you saying that Spanish people should be thought of as tourists in America? At what point does your language become accepted? 100,000 people? 100,000,000 people? I don't know what the spanish population is in the U.S, but if we disregarded the Asian people here in Vancouver, we would have a problem.

 

[lonewolfe]

I believe that everyone should be able to speak enough English to get by in the American culture if they choose to make this their home. I live in the San Francisco Bay area and it is about as multi-cultural and diverse as it gets. The thing that irks me is when people conveniently forget how to speak English when it serves their interest. Spanish is the second most spoken language in America and Latinos make up our largest ethnic population passing up African Americans last year. I happen to speak Spanish and a little German. Oh, and let's not forget Ebonics. I can't believe they wanted to teach classes in Ebonics here in Oakland. Get real and teach those kids how to speak English correctly in the first place. If I were African American I would be insulted!

 

[valve bouncer]

A quick point to ponder Manimal (I'm short of time)- throughout the world mono-lingualism is the exception, not the rule. I'd like to get back to this subject at a later time because as a non-native speaker of the language of the country where I live this subject is very important to me. Good thread Manimal

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Dude!

Could you call up some of your old knight buddies for me, and let me joust with someone? Or bash some stuff with a mourning star? C'mon please?

Oh, and about the language stuff. Foreigners are just trying to be difficult. I mean c'mon, i know 4 year olds who can speak perfect english. How hard could it be?

sure, they're all a bunch of long haired white trash mostly

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Mocha
Keep in mind that I live in Canada, and I have no idea what the situation is there....but... Are you saying that Spanish people should be thought of as tourists in America? At what point does your language become accepted? 100,000 people? 100,000,000 people? I don't know what the spanish population is in the U.S, but if we disregarded the Asian people here in Vancouver, we would have a problem.

first off, i'm not trying to single out the spanish speaking population, but it makes for a good example. no, i'm not saying that they're tourists which furthers my point; if you're visiting, fine, we'll accomodate you...heck, we need your money. but if you live here you should make a hard effort to learn the local language. ignoring the population is definitely not the answer but how about educating vs. giving out a crutch in the form of interpreters at every venue. from my time in the insurance biz, i've noticed that those who only speak spanish are often given the short end of the stick in an accident, even if it wasn't their fault; simply because they couldn't explain their side of the story.

lonewolfe- don't even get me started on Ebonics:angry: Learn the language first, then make your own version but at least be able to write a formal letter to someone without sounding like a complete idiot.

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by manimal
if you live here you should make a hard effort to learn the local language. ignoring the population is definitely not the answer but how about educating vs. giving out a crutch in the form of interpreters at every venue. from my time in the insurance biz, i've noticed that those who only speak spanish are often given the short end of the stick in an accident, even if it wasn't their fault; simply because they couldn't explain their side of the story.

Good point about education. I agree with you there Manimal but l think you'll the reason that interpreters are used so extensively is that they work out cheaper in the long run. EFL classes are expensive and time-consuming. Further you can't force people to learn English they have to do it off their own bat. An idea is for the government to subsidize the learning of English on the job. Have pay rises and promotions based on improvement.
Most people will want to learn, some won't but unless you want people dying in hospitals because they can't communicate with the doctors or living in dire poverty because they can't access social security you got to have some kind of system like interpreters.
I think you should look at this as a glass half full situation. The aim should be to have everyone in America functionally bi-lingual in both Spanish and English. Encourage the use of English but also encourage the use of Spanish. Try to make interacting in both languages a normal part of the day.
As an aside any idea what percentage of English speakers are functional in Spanish in the US? I'm sure it's a lot as I've met a ton of Americans (non-Hispanic) who can speak decent Spanish. I mean even the prez can speak a bit can't he?

 

[CinderChk]

Originally posted by T0mo
i don't really care too much except for when i try to order food at mcdonalds or taco bell. i think that if people have a job where they need to interact with other people all day then they should need to know the language that the majority of people speak(in this case it would be english).

I have to agree, but even that does not bother me as much as not being able to find a job in my own country b/c I'm not fluent in another language to be used as a constant translator. You don't even have to speak English to be a citizen now. Just my 2 cents tho.

 

[Spud]

I believe the INS regs state:

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing:

have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 15 years and are over 55 years of age;

have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 20 years and are over 50 years of age; or

have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicant’s ability to learn English.

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Spud
I believe the INS regs state:

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing:

have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 15 years and are over 55 years of age;

have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 20 years and are over 50 years of age; or

have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicant’s ability to learn English.

good reference, however, it is not enforced. the test for english comprehension is something like this. HOW DO YOU ASK TO SPEAK TO SOMEONE IN SPANISH. that's about all they're required to know.

 

[Spud]

I see it as the free market in action. Banks, phone companies etc. provide multilingual services because their customers want it and it enhances their revenues. Aced out of job because you aren’t bilingual? That’s the marketplace, adapt and move on.

The other side of it, like manimal points out. If you can’t explain yourself in English, you will generally get the short end of the stick. That’s the marketplace, learn English, adapt and move on.

I’m not convinced that there is a huge number of non English speakers obtaining U.S. citizenship (note this is different than resident alien status or green card) – the citizenship written test is in English after all amigo?

 

[Babar]

Wait if we encourage use of spanish, don't we have to do it for all other languages used by other nationality ?

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by Babar
Wait if we encourage use of spanish, don't we have to do it for all other languages used by other nationality ?

Fair point but it seems that anyway Spanish is becoming the de-facto second language of the States. Why not, if not formalise the process, then speed it up a bit. A win-win situation as I see it.
P.S- Can you really speak Japanese AND Korean? Impressive if so.

 

[partsbara]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Fair point but it seems that anyway Spanish is becoming the de-facto second language of the States. Why not, if not formalise the process, then speed it up a bit. A win-win situation as I see it.
P.S- Can you really speak Japanese AND Korean? Impressive if so.

dude, i can speak korean and japanese... EASY PIESY... sure i only know about 12 words in each language and they all pertain to getting pissed...

are you impressed ? (you should be - i have 2 degrees as well)

hhehehee

partsbara

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by partsbara
dude, i can speak korean and japanese... EASY PIESY... sure i only know about 12 words in each language and they all pertain to getting pissed...

are you impressed ? (you should be - i have 2 degrees as well)

hhehehee

partsbara

Mate gotta get your priorities right. Wow man, you have 2 degrees

 

[partsbara]

i called you last night (my time) but no one was home crent

actually it was about 14 hours ago

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by partsbara
i called you last night (my time) but no one was home crent

actually it was about 14 hours ago

yeah was workin' demon, I'll give ya a bell.

 

[MMike]

My favourite are americans who bitch about other languages and they can't even "talk english good".

"Where's that AT?"

"That's a whole nother issue"

Where have all the adverbs gone?

But I digress....

 

[laura]

Originally posted by MMike
My favourite are americans who bitch about other languages and they can't even "talk english good".


"That's a whole nother issue"

this one is great. i actually put this in a paper then went back and proof read it. i realized that i say "a whole nother" all the time but it is not even a word. that's all relative though. it has meaning so it is a word. its just a newer word.

 

[Babar]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Fair point but it seems that anyway Spanish is becoming the de-facto second language of the States. Why not, if not formalise the process, then speed it up a bit. A win-win situation as I see it.
P.S- Can you really speak Japanese AND Korean? Impressive if so.

Yes, but i was forced to learn since i was very young (the typical asian parents education). Seriously it does help knowing variety of languages, but i never liked learning it and doesnt come useful alot of the times.

P.S - I didnt learn how to speak english til i was 10 now im 18.

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by Babar
Yes, but i was forced to learn since i was very young (the typical asian parents education). Seriously it does help knowing variety of languages, but i never liked learning it and doesnt come useful alot of the times.

P.S - I didnt learn how to speak english til i was 10 now im 18.

Mate you're still only 18, believe me it will come in useful sooner or later and you'll thank your old dears for forcing you to learn them.

 

[Tru]

I speak a little Spanglish

 

[partsbara]

Originally posted by MMike
My favourite are americans who bitch about other languages and they can't even "talk english good".

"Where's that AT?"

"That's a whole nother issue"

Where have all the adverbs gone?

But I digress....

funny you say that mmike.. you should try hanging around an military base... 'i goin to get me some chicken'... 'what i tell you?' etc etc

dumb @sses

i guess they can t speak english like they use ta could

partsbara

 

[partsbara]

another thing that makes me laugh (and proud not to be american) is the clowns here in germany who try to communicate with the locals... i m sure there are many idiots in aussie who do the same thing, so don t take offense to the above remark...

they ask a question/make a statement in english then proceed to repeat the phrase over and over in an increasingly louder voice... to the point of yelling... clueless YOU ARE IN GERMANY CLOWN... SPEAK GERMAN

partsbara <-- trying to learn german

 

[Serial Midget]

That is an entirely different issue. Besides, in practice, very few languages are spoken exactly as they are written. Everyday interpersonal communication does not rely solely upon language for contextual comprehension.

Is your superiority complex justified? Your opening sentence is an English language nightmare...

Originally posted by MMike
My favourite are americans who bitch about other languages and they can't even

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by partsbara
they ask a question/make a statement in english then proceed to repeat the phrase over and over in an increasingly louder voice... to the point of yelling... clueless YOU ARE IN GERMANY CLOWN... SPEAK GERMAN

partsbara <-- trying to learn german

Most Germans I have met speak better English than most Americans I have met...

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
That is an entirely different issue. Besides, in practice, very few languages are spoken exactly as they are written. Everyday interpersonal communication does not rely solely upon language for contextual comprehension.

Is your superiority complex justified? Your opening sentence is an English language nightmare...

Yes. it's justified. On many levels.

 

[MMike]

and then there's this:

http://www.ctnow.com/news/custom/newsat3/sns-othernews-klingon,0,2542667.story?coll=hc-headlines-newsat3

multiculturalism epitomized.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by MMike
Yes. it's justified. On many levels.

Are you sure about that, MMike? Shouldn't the initial letter of the first word in a sentence be a capital letter?

Or does that not apply in North American English?

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by MMike
and then there's this:

http://www.ctnow.com/news/custom/newsat3/sns-othernews-klingon,0,2542667.story?coll=hc-headlines-newsat3

multiculturalism epitomized.

I had heard this is a hoax, although I know a guy that speaks Klingon down there...

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by fluff
Are you sure about that, MMike? Shouldn't the initial letter of the first word in a sentence be a capital letter?

Or does that not apply in North American English?

Don't you be turnin' on me too!

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by MMike
Don't you be turnin' on me too!