[MDmorgan]

In your opinion what makes up a good lift acess mountain? What features do you like to see. What ammenities do you need. Do you need a good jump line. Do you like wooden features, ladders, wall rides, seasaws, just a bike park in gereral? Gnarly rockey trails, smooth fast flowing trails. Good food, drink, bar.

Please tell me what attracks you to where you ride, love to ride, or want to ride. I am trying to get a new program going, and if i can go in with as much ammo as i can that would be great.

Thanks
Morgan

 

[PatBranch]

Variety is good. If you have gnar tech rock trails, smooth jump trails (like a-line and dirt merchant at whistler), mixed trails (rocks, drops, fast sections,etc.), trails with wooden stunts, and a bike/terrain park (wall rides, a box, jumps), everyone should be happy.

Secondly, a good place to get food and drinks would be good.

 

[Zark]

One within an hour drive of me (not gonna happen)

 

[hungryleprican]

I agree 100% with mtnrider


the park should grab everyone's interest (freeriders, racers, casual riders, etc.)

 

[Mountain_Dewd]

go to whistler, copy everything, eliminate bike thiefs and attract as many hotties as possible with drink specials and false promises

also create weather control machine to keep it 72 degrees and have a light sprinkle every night to keep dust down. have crack team of badasses to keep trails going.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

One within an hour drive of me (not gonna happen)

4.5 blocks??!?! yeah...yer hosed...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

go to whistler, copy everything, eliminate bike thiefs and attract as many hotties as possible with drink specials and false promises

also create weather control machine to keep it 72 degrees and have a light sprinkle every night to keep dust down. have crack team of badasses to keep trails going.

Agree 1000%!!

 

[bent^biker]

everything others have posted and: hotels (preferably inexpensive and some nicer), a foam pit/indoor facility (airdome)

 

[stgil888]

I think making sure every trail you open is well manicured is just as important as opening too many ghetto trails. I'd rather work on technique, fitness and speed on a sweet trail with good flow than sweat it out on a large network of poorly conceived trails.

It is also very important to understand who will be riding which trails and cater to that audience. It does not make sense to try to put family XC'ers and competitive DH'ers on the same trail. "Gentle climbs, great scenery, huge stepdowns and family fun" equals injuries and angry customers.

Too many builders get ambitious and add too many features too close together on a single trail. Think about the scale of the mountain and the trail. Even guys who are skilled and experienced riders often build on too small a scale when they're moving slowly on their feet. Even veteran builders make stuff curiously small IMO. I'm not talking about the vertical of jumps, but the overall scale of trails. DH bikes are long and riders want to go fast. Too many trails end up being an unhappy combination of rear-tire-skidding, brake-fluid-boiling descents leading into a trialsy obstacle course of stunted jumps and slow corners.

Please leave ample space for set ups and landings. Dirt jumpers may like linked jumps, but if I'm still bottomed out off an awkward jump of g-out, I don't enjoy slamming into another one.

If you're building on a big mountain, remember to build in sections for mortal riders to spin out the lactic acid in their legs and hands and catch their breath. This will help prevent crowds from forming at the end of tech sections (a big potential hazard).

 

[MDmorgan]

also create weather control machine to keep it 72 degrees and have a light sprinkle every night to keep dust down..

This is in the works, i have been comunicating with the man up stairs and it looks like a go.



Great stuff guys, keep it coming.

 

[hungryleprican]

sounds like it's all been said

good food and cheap hotels

also make it a location that is surrounded by mountain bikers

 

[riverside73]

Whatever you do, don't try to milk MTBikers for every dime they have. And don't build trails, then get greedy and let a logging operation tear through all that you have built just because the logs will bring more money in the short term. Good, sustainable trails will bring money year after year, logging is a one time shot, or at least a once in 20 years shot.

Long story short.....Don't in any way model yourself after Schweitzer Mountain Resort in Idaho!!!

 

[MDmorgan]

The operation i would like to run would be rider run, and i would hope to turn the profit on fair lift tickets, and a decent food and beverage service.

Their is about 8 collages with in a 45-60 minute radius, so that would be my target, and you cant survive if your milking collage kids, they need a fair shake.

Their is also a good XC community i would like to lure in, as well as river going kayakers, rafters, and canoers.

 

[dante]

3 things:

1) Topography. Lot of vert, and steep as well.
2) Well thought-out and sometimes ruthless trails. Double-diamonds should be barely rideable, green circles should be able to be done on an XC bike.
3) Amenities. Lodging/food nearby, etc.

 

[skatetokil]

soo have you figured out a cheaper way to get people and bikes to the top of a mountain? cause rider owned tends to mean not much capital to invest.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I assume I know where this is. To prosper you will need to differentiate yourself from Jiminy, which is currently the best mountain in New England for DH. Jiminy is the best because;

1. The best trails
2. The best ticket price- $22
3. The best location
4. The best base area- something for non-riders, avail food an bev.

Your mountain has different terrain than Jiminy, but does not have as developed a base and not as many local cultural amenities, but it is one of my favorite places to ski or snowboard after a big snowfall due to it's fun gradient and interesting roll overs. It also has a trail on mountain right that could be turned into "a-line" with a few tons of dirt and some skilled people driving the bobcat.

If this goes ahead, it could be fun as heck.

And I would be far more than willing to break my back building there.

 

[riverside73]

The operation i would like to run would be rider run, and i would hope to turn the profit on fair lift tickets, and a decent food and beverage service.

Their is about 8 collages with in a 45-60 minute radius, so that would be my target, and you cant survive if your milking collage kids, they need a fair shake.

Their is also a good XC community i would like to lure in, as well as river going kayakers, rafters, and canoers.

Don't forget about customer service. Went to Disneyland a couple of years ago.....man can that get expensive! But everyone there seemed to go out of their way to make sure I was happy and having a good time that I pretty much forgot I spending a $hitload of money. It was worth it.

You customers are gold. Treat them that way and it will show in your profit margin.

 

[MDmorgan]

I assume I know where this is. To prosper you will need to differentiate yourself from Jiminy, which is currently the best mountain in New England for DH. Jiminy is the best because;

1. The best trails
2. The best ticket price- $22
3. The best location
4. The best base area- something for non-riders, avail food an bev.

Your mountain has different terrain than Jiminy, but does not have as developed a base and not as many local cultural amenities, but it is one of my favorite places to ski or snowboard after a big snowfall due to it's fun gradient and interesting roll overs. It also has a trail on mountain right that could be turned into "a-line" with a few tons of dirt and some skilled people driving the bobcat.

If this goes ahead, it could be fun as heck.

And I would be far more than willing to break my back building there.

I would deffinitly like to get some locals together and give them a seasons pass in change for some work/imput. If you can keep the name to yourself, i am in the preliminary stages of trying to get something going, this is not ment to start rumors, or raise hopes.

Number 4 on your list is huge and i wouldn't be able to compete with that for a while. More or less I would try and make up for that by having it built right, have a bike park , a good jump line, and good trails, that riders talk about, and want to ride.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Also, bring this post to www.bustedspoke.com That is where you will find the most NE riders.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I think at any mountain the base is the least important part. In your instance you are basically already in a village. Good trails are obviously key, and some good steep rooty goodness is sure to please!

 

[tlproject7]

where is this gonna be homie, im in new england, i ride jiminy. i wanna know

 

[MDmorgan]

where is this gonna be homie, im in new england, i ride jiminy. i wanna know

Cant say right now.


This post was not in any way to start rumors, but to aid me in a proposal that i am putting together. It could be the best proposal ever, with a guaranteed high end return, and could still get shot down.

 

[tlproject7]

please tell me, i wont tell any one. i promise

 

[bikenweed]

Have a couple FAST, wide open, steep singletrack trails. People will get hurt, but they're so much fun.

Can ya get some camping going on at the resort?

 

[skatetokil]

yeah, camping. camping is good. and showers.

 

[captainpolution]

100% sharp rocks

 

[OGRipper]

Looks like I'm in the minority, but given the lack of lift-assisted riding here, I almost don't care about the cost of a ticket and you are going to need every dollar you can get to cover liability insurance, equipment and labor, etc. Offer discounts for students if you want, but I pretty much expect and am willing to pay top dollar - similar to the cost of a lift ticket in winter. Anyone complaining about an extra 5-10 bucks should try living out here where there is basically NO lift assisted riding anywhere.

Everything else has pretty much been said: Ideally you've got a variety of trails built for big bikes, as well as XC, "boneyard" type stuff, and maybe a DJ park and/or street zone; a place to eat and drink that opens early and stays open well after the lifts close; lodging at different price points; some stuff for non-riders; coin-op showers; campgrounds, etc.

Good luck.

 

[JRogers]

A big thing that I don't think anyone mentioned is trails with consistent vertical, good signage and a planned layout. I've been to a few mountains where downhill is not a big thing in the summer and they often have few trails that are all DH...and if you're not careful and keep bombing on one that is, you might end up several miles from the base area (think Killington).

 

[SuspectDevice]

We have by my count 12 lift assited places within 6 hours of here. Our market is FAR more competitive than the West Coast.

Mt Snow
Killington
Attitash
Highland
Mt Snow
Jiminy
Whiteface
Plattekill
Bromont
St Anne
Hunter
Diablo

To survive around here a niche is needed.

 

[A.P]

We have by my count 12 lift assited places within 6 hours of here. Our market is FAR more competitive than the West Coast.

Mt Snow
Killington
Attitash
Highland
Mt Snow
Jiminy
Whiteface
Plattekill
Bromont
St Anne
Hunter
Diablo

To survive around here a niche is needed.

Your forgetting Bolton valley.

My opinion is dont spend your time making a bunch of man-made features in the beginning, rather put your effort into making more trails. Everyone has fun on dirt, but only some people want to ride on wooden planks. If you are going to make a trail with a bunch of skinnies and bridges keep it that...all on one trail. Another suggestion is to have one two fun breather runs that you can take first run to warm up or if you need a break at the end of the day you can take. These also serve beginner riders who dont want to get in over their head, so it reduces your liability.

Basically I would rather go to a place with a ton of well marked, stunt-free trails rather then a place that has only a couple of trails with really labor-intensive construction.

Jumps, drops, A-line trails can wait. If I wanted to ride dirtjumps, Id go dirtjumping. I go to a downhill mountain to ride downhill...not to say that messing around on jumps with your downhill bike isnt fun sometimes, its just not my priority.

 

[Transcend]

Also Mont Blanc. Just opened last yeat, I wasn't impressed at first, by by the end of the season it was a blast. They are 100% dedicated to having a kick ass bike park.

 

[hungryleprican]

you listed mt. snow twice

 

[vtminuteman]

Focus trail work on minimizing water erosion, the northeast is wet, not UK wet, but wet enough to make it the first priority. Don't put the trail through a wet area just to link terrain features. If you point the trail strait down the fall line, make water bars or rolling dips. Raise the trail above the forest floor, so water sheads off it and doesn't run down it or puddle on it. If you want to offer something new, just keep dirt on your trails. Most NE bike parks I have visited are roots, ledge and rock gardens.

 

[Jack Frost]

you have to find a balance between trail quality and quantity

 

[dante]

you have to find a balance between trail quality and quantity

somewhere between Highland and Platty?

 

[Bikael Molton]

woo hoo maybe another mountain!

I'm kinda wondering how we're keeping so many lift access mountains in business... the list really is amazingly long.

I think focusing on quality trails is key. Camping is also important, as it directly feeds into lift and amenity price. A broke dude would readily pay $50 for a lift ticket if camping was free vs. $25 for a lift ticket but nowhere cool and safe to camp for miles around.

Contrary to other people's opinions, appealing to groms and the average "for fun" rider are key: hence build at least one trail with some wood features, since those are sexy to some riders, particularly groms and newbs who aren't over that trend already. And if you've been to Whistler or Diablo, you'll know know that A-line type jump trails, if done right, are the most popular trails with the *majority* of riders. Since mtbers are a fickle and small group, appealing to the most people possible is key.

-r

 

[MDmorgan]

would cheap nice camping in the area work? do any mountains offer on mountain camping?

 

[racersdad]

Camping facilities are located at Plattekill Mountain, nestled at the base of the mountain's natural bowl. RVs, trailers, campers and tents are all welcome!

Join fellow campers for a night of campfires and share stories of the day's trail riding.

B ase lodge is open until 6pm. Running water and porta potty are available after 6pm.

Cost for camping is $10/night per tent or camper/trailer.

http://www.plattekill.com/summer/camping.html

 

[819]

I think making sure every trail you open is well manicured is just as important as opening too many ghetto trails. I'd rather work on technique, fitness and speed on a sweet trail with good flow than sweat it out on a large network of poorly conceived trails.

It is also very important to understand who will be riding which trails and cater to that audience. It does not make sense to try to put family XC'ers and competitive DH'ers on the same trail. "Gentle climbs, great scenery, huge stepdowns and family fun" equals injuries and angry customers.

Too many builders get ambitious and add too many features too close together on a single trail. Think about the scale of the mountain and the trail. Even guys who are skilled and experienced riders often build on too small a scale when they're moving slowly on their feet. Even veteran builders make stuff curiously small IMO. I'm not talking about the vertical of jumps, but the overall scale of trails. DH bikes are long and riders want to go fast. Too many trails end up being an unhappy combination of rear-tire-skidding, brake-fluid-boiling descents leading into a trialsy obstacle course of stunted jumps and slow corners.

Please leave ample space for set ups and landings. Dirt jumpers may like linked jumps, but if I'm still bottomed out off an awkward jump of g-out, I don't enjoy slamming into another one.

If you're building on a big mountain, remember to build in sections for mortal riders to spin out the lactic acid in their legs and hands and catch their breath. This will help prevent crowds from forming at the end of tech sections (a big potential hazard).

I"m definatly with you on all your points. When I was building for our local bike park the biggest issue was beginner or mellow terrain. Whatever location you pick make sure you can make some real easy xc ish trails for the newbies. It will make sure your park grows. Your Core riders dont' just happen they have to work their way up.

Also to your point about building on a small scale, I always had a rule that for every three sweet features that I found or thought I could build I would build one. That way riders have time to recover between features and the trail flows well.

Finally I"d do whatever I could to minimize intersections, specially on a small hill. They just cause problems with the flow of the mountain and get people lost.

 

[dante]

Camping facilities are located at Plattekill Mountain[/url]

hahahahahahahahaha. "facilities". that's pretty funny.