[jarscrew]

Guys, as a newbie in dirt.. I have one question, why are you guys lowering your fork for your dirt rig? What the difference feeling when u ride with lowered fork than the standard one (100mm travel)? Thanx..

 

[aeffertz]

From what I know, if you have a lot of travel, it soaks up a lot of the pop you get off of the lip.

 

[Defenestrated]

keep in mind that it lowers your front end and steepens the head angle too.

 

[t1maglio]

For my bike, if I would have run the stock 100mm (or even the shortened 80mm) my front end would have been to slack. I also agree with Aeffertz, to much suspension absorbs to much of the pop of the lip, its purpose is just to take the edge off hits.

Just keep in mind its dependent on the bike. My Mob was fine with the stock level (though some people like to lower them a little). Lowering can do funky things with bottom bracket heights and handling over all as well.

 

[SDG]

people how shorten there forks do this for 1 reason only, to make the headangle steaper. A steaper headangle makes the bike easyer to nose dive into the steep dirt landings and also helps a bit with the barspin rotations. It makes the bike less stable, so you need to work on your bikecontroll skills.

For the stiff fork thing, make your fork hard as a rock and it must only "work" to soften the landing a bit. It's al about speed & momentum. A plush fork will take some of the momentum.

Cheers

 

[Cru Jones]

Personally, I think you should run the size of fork that your frame was designed for. Unless you really want a steeper head angle and lower bb. Steeper is fine, but I hate a low bb. And the bike definitely has a different feel overall with more/softer suspension, but once you get use to it, you can actually use the squish to get more pop off of jumps.

Having said all that... I'm going rigid. The problem with most rigid forks on the market, though, is that they are too short for most frames.

 

[Stoked]

Having said all that... I'm going rigid. The problem with most rigid forks on the market, though, is that they are too short for most frames.

i smell a custom contraband rigid...inquiring minds..

 

[Cru Jones]

i smell a custom contraband rigid...inquiring minds..

Ha, yep. 460 a2c, 14mm dropouts. And it'll look crazy (maybe not in a good way) cuz I'm leaving it raw after heat treatment. Mr. Melms helped me out with a 20 to 14 axle.

I'll be like lil J and post an updated bike check once I get it.

 

[bobkelso]

people how shorten there forks do this for 1 reason only, to make the headangle steaper. A steaper headangle makes the bike easyer to nose dive into the steep dirt landings and also helps a bit with the barspin rotations. It makes the bike less stable, so you need to work on your bikecontroll skills.

For the stiff fork thing, make your fork hard as a rock and it must only "work" to soften the landing a bit. It's al about speed & momentum. A plush fork will take some of the momentum.

Cheers

that made my head hurt

 

[t1maglio]

that made my head hurt

That made my head laugh!

 

[cornfed]

I hope you are having them beef it up while you're at it. My fork is pretty soft. Honestly, I think S and M made it too light.

 

[don]

Ha, yep. 460 a2c, 14mm dropouts. And it'll look crazy (maybe not in a good way) cuz I'm leaving it raw after heat treatment. Mr. Melms helped me out with a 20 to 14 axle.

I'll be like lil J and post an updated bike check once I get it.

Please do - that sounds nice - like the 460mm a2c. The main crop of rigid forks are too short for my tastes. And Melm product is always easy on the eyes.

 

[Cru Jones]

I hope you are having them beef it up while you're at it. My fork is pretty soft. Honestly, I think S and M made it too light.

Really? Soft how? Can you see or feel it flex? I don't think they are doing anything different to it, they didn't say. But, they might be, since it's a little longer.

 

[brycexlighthall]

Just let me test your fork out dude. I'll 50/50 a couple jumps and we'll see if it rakes out. I am actually excited to see how the rigid feels.

 

[Cru Jones]

Just let me test your fork out dude. I'll 50/50 a couple jumps and we'll see if it rakes out. I am actually excited to see how the rigid feels.

You should be excited to hit the freshly shaped 2nd lip and new hip... sooooo butter.

 

[cornfed]

Well, I'm not really a hack, but sometimes I can be. The fork goes (((((BOING!))))))) off some jumps w/ a lot of kick to them. I can feel it through the bars. It vibrates back & forth like a tuning fork. I don't really know how else to describe it. Not really an issue; it seems all rigid 26er forks due that to some degree.

I bent mine. Granted I crashed...my hand was sweaty and it slipped off landing on the backside. I kinda balled up w/ my bike doing a Pete rose kinda slide...Whatever. Anyway, I got up to check things out and my fork was twisted @ the crown. I thought my stem twisted on the steerer like sometimes happens. Nope. Twisted fork legs. I straightened it between two trees good enough to finish the day and then took it off later to straighten it proper. It is fine now, but I don't think a fork should twist up so easily.

If I were to pinch the front wheel with my knees and twist the bars, I could bend it. Another way to notice it is if you prop up against something and balance like you're in a BMX starting gate, it really feels flexy when balancing. Honestly, a rider has to be smooth to use this fork. I wouldn't mind some extra weight, maybe as much as a lb to beeef it up.

Also, the drops are tiny. My Marmoset hub collars are bigger than them. I changed the G-Sport washers for some serrated ones to help make sure the axle stays put. You can see it here:

I couldn't imagine running this fork w/ a longer A2C. It's gonna look like a chopper and might be even flexier due to increased leverage.

 

[cornfed]

I digress. I'm sorry about that. This thread is about lowering a fork...

 

[Cru Jones]

Well, one thing the will def be different is that mine will have the bigger, 14mm pitchfork dropouts. Thanks for the info, we'll see how it goes.

Have you talked to S&M/Blackmarket about the issues?

 

[Savage_Animal]

keep in mind that technically if you're not an authorized mechanic and you take the fork apart, you have voided the warranty, AFAIK. of course, if you know what you're doing, it shouldn't be a problem. just don't screw it up in a way that makes it obvious that it was damaged because of something stupid, like not putting oil back in.

Also lowering your fork or having a smaller crown to axle length will make you spinn a lot faster.

 

[Savage_Animal]

Cru Jones-

Honnestly I think you should check out the Doberman fork, one of the longest rigids and 20mm to 14 mm conversion thing that comes with it.

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2247321/

 

[WestCoastHucker]

... I am actually excited to see how the rigid feels.

not sure i want you out at the jumps all excited about feeling jeremy's rigidness...

 

[cornfed]

Well, one thing the will def be different is that mine will have the bigger, 14mm pitchfork dropouts. Thanks for the info, we'll see how it goes.

Have you talked to S&M/Blackmarket about the issues?

No, I haven't. It really isn't an issue as long as I stay smooth.

 

[Cru Jones]

Cru Jones-

Honnestly I think you should check out the Doberman fork, one of the longest rigids and 20mm to 14 mm conversion thing that comes with it.

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2247321/

I did. They don't plan on having the long one in production anytime soon.

 

[cmc]

about to get a new fork to get my Molly dialed in.

what axle-to-crown length are yall using on 24" park bikes ?

right now i've got it at 18" or 457.2mm and it looks about right.



Here's something I found in a Ridemonkey Archive:
Superdeft12-29-2006, 10:24 AM
This might help:


2007 Models Axel to Crown

Corsa WC 80mm 464mm
Corsa WC 100mm 474mm
XC700 SL 464-504mm
XC600 474mm
XC500 474mm
Z1 RC2 538mm
Drop Off 3 538mm
AM SL 1 511-551mm
AM 2 531mm
AM 3 531mm
4X WC ?
DJ 1 483mm
DJ 2 483mm
DJ 3 483mm
Dirt Jam Pro 483mm
66 SL 1 ATA 525-565mm
66 RC2X 565mm
66 RC2 ETA 565mm
888 WC 584mm
888 SL ATA 554-584mm
888 RC2X VA 584mm
888 RV 584mm
Super T RCV 574mm
MX Pro ETA 508mm
MX Pro ETA 488mm
MX Pro 488mm
MX Pro 468mm
MX Comp 1" 468mm
MX Pro I.S. 488mm

CANNONDALE

lefty 140 spv : 510 mm

FOX

vanilla R 2005: 510 mm
Talas RL 2004: 490 mm
Talas RLC 2006: 503mm
vanilla 2004 un peu moins de 500 mm
Float 80mm : 451mm
100mm : 471mm


36 Talas(2006) en 150mm : 535mm
en 110mm : 495mm
36VAN RC2 (2006) en 160: 545mm
40 (2006) : en 178mm : 546mm
-------------- en 203mm : 571mm

MARZO

Z1 130mm drop off QR20: 503mm (2001)
Z1 FR SL (2003) 530 mm
Z1 FR 130 (2005): 518mm
Z1 FR 150 (2005): 538 mm
Z1 MCR (2001)130: 510mm
Z1 LIGHT ETA 150mm (2006): 538.5mm
Z3 Flylight 100mm (2000): 500mm
Z5 air en 100 (2001): 478 mm
888 (2005) en 200mm, 605mm
888 (2005) en 170mm, 575mm
888 (2006) en 200mm: 579mm
66 (2005) en 170mm, 595mm
66 (2005) en 150mm, 575mm
66 (2006) en 170mm: 555mm
66 (2006) en 150mm: 535mm
Marathon S millésime 2002 100mm -> 480 mm
Marathon S 120mm (2005): 495mm
Marathon XC 120mm 2005: 495mm
MX Comp en 105mm: 478 mm
MX Comp en 105mm (2006): 484.3mm
MX Comp en 120 mm : 493 mm
MX Comp en 120mm (2006): 499mm
MX Comp en 85 mm : 458 mm
MZ comp en 100 mm: 488 mm
EXR PRO en 105 mm: 478 mm
EXR PRO en 120 mm: 493 mm
all mountain 110 498mm
all mountain 130: 518 mm
all mountain 150 (2005): 538 mm
all mountain 150 (2006): 541.5mm
DJ2 2004 = 500mm
DJ en 100 mm (2005): 488 mm
DIRT JUMPER (2006) en 100mm: 483.5mm
shiver sc 120 mm : 510 mm
shiver DC: 572mm
Junior T 2003/2004/2005: 555mm
Junior T 2001 = 540mm
Monster en 200 mm: 595 mm

ROCK SHOX

pike: 517mm
Lyric en 160mm: 545mm +/- 5mm
Domain en 180mm: 565mm +/- 5mm
Totem en 180mm: 565mm +/- 5mm
Reba 85mm: 458mm
Reba en 100 mm : 473 mm
reba 115mm: 488mm
Boxxer 04 (178mm de débattement), 555mm en position basse
Boxxer 2005 race, team et world cup en 203mm : 570mm en position basse
Psylo SL uturn : 510 mm
Duke XC 80 mm 2004 : 460 mm
Duke C (année inconnue) 80 mm de dbt : 440 mm
Pilot en 100mm : 475mm
SID RACE 80mm: 442mm
SID SL 2001 80mm: 450mm
SID 1998 63mm : 435mm
Revelation 130mm (2006): 508mm
Revelation 100mm (2006): 478mm

PACE

Distance RC 39 modèle 2005 en 100 mm: 470mm
RC41 Fighter en 150mm 2006: 524mm


MANITOU

Axel Elite 100mm : 480mm
Skareb Super TPC 100mm (modéle 2005): 475 mm
Black Platinum (Reglage maximum):515mm
black comp 2002: 475mm en debat 100mm
Stance Flow:502/532mm
Stance Kingpin: 540mm
Stance Static 80mm: 460mm
Stance Static 100mm: 480mm
Dorado DH: 542.5mm
Sherman Breakout Plus: 512/552mm
Sherman Flick Plus: 492/532mm
Sherman Firefly Plus: 492/532mm
Sherman Jumper: 455mm
Sherman Jumper 110mm : 480mm
Sherman Slider Plus: 540mm
Nixon Platinum/Super/Elite: 518mm
Minute 1/2/3: 505mm
Minute 3 (en 100mm): 470 mm
Millenium: 505mm
Splice 100 mm: 505mm
Splice Elite 130mm : 525mm
R7 (2006) en 100mm: 470mm


MAGURA

Big Ego en 185 mm : 580 mm
Thor en 150 mm : 535 mm
Ronin en 110 mm : 483 mm
Phaon en 125 mm : 504 mm
Asgard en 100 mm : 476 mm
Asgard en 80 mm : 456 mm
Vidar en 80 mm : 456 mm
Quake 115 double té: 525 mm

 

[DirtBag]

Having said all that... I'm going rigid. The problem with most rigid forks on the market, though, is that they are too short for most frames.

Agreed. That is why I went with the XL version of the Rebate with 465mm A2C. I wanted the front end to be equivalent to a lowered suspesion fork without being compressed. My Gold Label was perfect until it compressed then it was way too low. When dropping in I felt really unstable. The front end is high but perfect for balancing out the 71.75 degree headangle. Plus I wanted a slightly higher BB and a tad more foot x-up clearance. The long fork works perfectly. No noticeable flexing on lips.

However for my Mob I liked the feel of the Argyle lowered to 80mm from 100mm. The front steering just feels better and the bike seems to be easier to point in on jumps.

 

[Evil4bc]

people how shorten there forks do this for 1 reason only, to make the headangle steaper. A steaper headangle makes the bike easyer to nose dive into the steep dirt landings and also helps a bit with the barspin rotations. It makes the bike less stable, so you need to work on your bikecontroll skills.
Cheers

HUH

Please explain this to me , how does a lowered fork change the effective head angle your bike was built too ?
If you lower your fork it only changes the HA will on the ground IE: Ride height head angle , not the effective HA your bike was built for so lowering your fork will not help you with bar-spins .
the thought of a lowered fork making your bike unstable is another one , basic physics tells us that a lower center of gravity will make the bike more stable , if you raise your BB then this raises your balance point and makes the bike more unstable at lower speeds but very controllable at higher speeds.

Lowered forks were initially used to reduce the 100+mm of travel orignal DJ specific forks came with , then the internal valveing was changed to make the forks function in more of a progressive stroke VS the linier strok they were intended to function with . This was done to give the forks more ramp up tward the end of the travel to prevent bottoming and usually the negitive spring was leaghtned to handle the incresed top out forces .
Air pressure was also used as a secondary preload feature to increse bottom out resistance .

Now - most current bikes are designed to a longer axle to crown that bikes previous , so now unless you want your BB slammed to the ground lowered forks really arnt a option .
I might suggest looking into a Stock production forks that is intended for DJing .

Production offering available today
I have been working on a production version of the "tuned" forks I was selling for same time .
These new forks are produced in Osaka Japan for me by KOWA suspension , these feature DJ specific travel options in 65mm and 75mm with axle to crowns designed to work with the current crop of "production " bikes on the market . These remove the worry about lowering your BB past what the orignal manufactor has recomended .
For features I spec'd the forks with Hydrlic bottom out control to handle the incresed forces of todays bigger slopestyle and DJ tricks . The internal have a full slippery coat anodize to increse small bump performace .

Photo of the new KOWA DJ-65 rev1