[konifere]

Hi all!

Here are a few questions for the car people of the Northern latitudes. I'm looking for winter tires for my girlfriend's car (the one we use the most), which is an SUV with 215/55R17 tires. I'm looking to get steel wheels for those tires, so I don't mind/would prefer going for another size. My questions :

1. Which size would be the best handling for snow (city driving, lots of ice, some highway but nothing crazy, no speeding) out of those 3 ? I'm thinking that the narrower/taller alternatives might be better for snow driving (what I've always done in the past), but am I right ?
-215/55R17" (stock)
-205/60R16" (cheapest combo)
-205/65R15"

2. Would you go with more expensive non-studded tires (like Michelins or Bridgestone Blizzaks) or cheaper studded tires (like Maxxis NP5 - I've never used any Maxxis car tires) ? I've always had studless tires and feel like studded ones would be better on the city driving we mostly do as it's quite hilly and icy here.

I've always ran Nokian tires without studs and the last unstudded Pirellis on my GF's car didn't feel any worse honestly. Nokian is off the list, as I've been driving Nokian winter and summer tires for the last 15 years and the last winter set cracked after 5 years of the MGFR date. The last summer set wore off after half of the advertised mileage so that's two strikes out for them.

Open to any option and opinion. Thanks!

 

[canadmos]

Given the hilly steep streets around Quebec City (assuming you're from that area...) and if its constantly icy out, I'd go with studs.

Go with the smaller rims/tires, they'll be significantly cheaper, and might offer some benefit in actual snow.

From reading reviews, it seems like no one really enjoys Nokian's summer tires. How bad were the cracks on those winters?

 

[konifere]

The cracks are not that bad, almost just esthetic, but it's the fist time I had car tires crack (I'm still using them this winter as they have like 8/32" left). They're mostly on the side of the thread and the bottom of the first rows, likely due to UV damage, but the sidewalls are fine. I always clean them with dish soap and water before storing them in their bags for the summer.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Yeah - if you have hills and deal with ice regularly, I'd be inclined to suggest cheaper studded tires. I've never run them myself, but out here in ColoradBro we generally deal with snow/packed snow and the studless are pretty amazing on that, compared to "all-season" nonsense...

 

[canadmos]

The Pirelli tires on my car are cracking like that as well. I have no clue if they are the original tires, but if they are they'd be about 6 years old (I should check the date code).

I had a tire shop look at them on Friday, as one of them has a slow leak, so looking at new tires. But he said that's pretty normal and didn't seem concerned.

Also I'd troll Kijiji or Facebook for some used steel rims. I picked up a set for $80 this winter for my VW - sure beats $100+ from the tire shop or god knows how much from the dealer.

 

[kidwoo]

Studs really only work awesome for one season.

I've used a set of blizzaks for 6 seasons now. Those are the most durable option IMO. Just don't use them in the summer

 

[konifere]

Studs really only work awesome for one season.

Yeah that's my main hesitation, but this one season here lasts from December to April and even with Nokians here the city roads are iced at all stop signs and pretty much everywhere out of the main blvds. It seems to be getting worse each year, with winter rains getting more frequent, so that's why I'm now contemplating getting studs.

Thanks for the Blizzak recommendation though, they are on the shortlist indeed!

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah that's my main hesitation, but this one season here lasts from December to April and even with Nokians here the city roads are iced at all stop signs and pretty much everywhere out of the main blvds. It seems to be getting worse each year, with winter rains getting more frequent, so that's why I'm now contemplating getting studs.

Thanks for the Blizzak recommendation though, they are on the shortlist indeed!

Blizzaks are the only non studded tire I'm really a fan of. Those nokians with the glass bits work pretty well but the blizzaks I've had seem to stay grippy longer.


For that northeast frozen rain shit, new studs really do work awesome. They just dull out and start falling out within like a month. I've gotten two functional seasons out of them. The problem is they don't stud soft tires here. So when the studs go, you're on hard rubber.

 

[boogenman]

I've used a lot of winter tires and this is hands down the best ever. 205/65r16 is the way to go on some aftermarket rims. The Winter Maxx2 handle everything very well and are also very quiet.
Winter Maxx® 2 | Goodyear
Blizzaks would be my second choice.
I'm suffering with some other winter for the next few seasons because I couldn't get those Dunlops. I actaully saw my snow tires and rims in my shed yesterday but I can't remember the make. Probably some Generals or some shit, they are loud.

 

[slyfink]

How much non-paved vs paved will you be driving? and city vs highway? studded aren't legal in ontario, so I've never used them, but they almost sound skittish on bare pavement. On the other had, what I wouldn't give for some on the gravel roads when headed to cottages & ski hills...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I run non-studded Michelins on the van and, I think, Blizzaks on Hilarie's CR-V. The van's 4WD, the CR-V is AWD. Both are operated on gravel and pavement, including glare ice.

Studs will go away if you operate above 60 MPH or so. Studless tires take getting used to and work just fine for me.

The best roads to drive on are thoroughly frozen gravel roads.

Tires should not be used longer than five years after date of manufacture.

Purchasing cheap tires or operating when they have started to crack is asking for it.

 

[canadmos]

How much non-paved vs paved will you be driving? and city vs highway? studded aren't legal in ontario, so I've never used them, but they almost sound skittish on bare pavement. On the other had, what I wouldn't give for some on the gravel roads when headed to cottages & ski hills...

They are legal in Ontario, but only in Northern Ontario.

Blizzaks are the only non studded tire I'm really a fan of. Those nokians with the glass bits work pretty well but the blizzaks I've had seem to stay grippy longer.


For that northeast frozen rain shit, new studs really do work awesome. They just dull out and start falling out within like a month. I've gotten two functional seasons out of them. The problem is they don't stud soft tires here. So when the studs go, you're on hard rubber.

If you have studs falling out after a month you should probably try and warranty them...

 

[Jm_]

Studs really only work awesome for one season.

I've used a set of blizzaks for 6 seasons now. Those are the most durable option IMO. Just don't use them in the summer

Hogwash, they will work fine for multiple seasons.

 

[konifere]

I'm only using my car to go fat biking in the winter, and the odd daycare trip when it's too snowy, but it's all close to home and low-speed action. I'd replace them since they're starting to crack (just fine surface cracks) and I don't like that, but I use my car like 100km at under 50kph in the winter.

My girlfriend drives in the city, then on the highway, but the city streets here are always completely iced and it often goes down to -20C here, often after a +5 day with rain. You get the idea. No gravel roads or deep snow driving here either. Anyway, from my experience, I've never felt the difference between my Nokians and the cheaper tires my GF had on gravel and deep snow.

I've never used studded tires and get along fine with studless, but the only area where I think safety could be gained is when stopping at stop signs or emergency stops on ice, and starting back from one. That's why I'm wondering if she'd be better with studs because contrarly to me, she does not like winter driving BUT I don't want the studded tires to be worse in other areas.

My brother and father are on studded Hakkas and have never lost studs (or never saw it) on their AWD vehicles, but I don't know about Maxxis car tires. The thing is that there are not many good studded tires out of the usual Nokian/Michelin good options. Most are chinese studded off brands, or General/Gislaved that I have never liked. Maxxis seemed like an option to try since they usually have good tires, but I can't find any review on them.

 

[Jm_]

Nothing works on ice as well as studs. If you have extended periods of ice, thats what you need. Narrow is for sinking thru a foot of snow…if you need that. Too many people think they are driving through 3 feet constantly and need 200 width tires. All other times, they are going to decrease control, so while it can help, its not applicable for every situation.

 

[Jm_]

Also, I’ve never lost studs.

 

[Toshi]

I like Nokians. Hakka R* SUV for my vehicles, those being the non-studless. Current R number/version is R5.

Tried Hankooks one year and did not care for them at all. Also had General Altimax Blizzards on one car many years ago and they, too, were not as good. Never have run Blizzaks for comparison. Those Goodyears recommended above only come in car sizes so no go for me.

 

[konifere]

I've used Hakka R and Hakka 5s on various cars and Gislaved NordFrost 100s, but each time on a different car. It seems like I replace my car when the winter tires are done Out of those, the Gislaved + '92 Corolla was the best combo ever for snow driving but that care and tires are long gone haha

@Jm_ what tires are you using up there?

Also, the Maxxis NP5s are factory studded, like Nokians and Michelins. Maybe people lose studs on garage-added studs, which seems like asking for losing studs.

 

[konifere]

@johnbryanpeters well, looking back at my current tires, I thought it was much worse and I don't think those cracks are a liability yet. Still, it's their last year on the car anyway.

 

[Jozz]

Look at tires performing better on ice than snow. I've had a few sets of Blizzak. They are good but noisy and not exceptional on ice. I've had good luck with Yokos. Better on ice than the Blizzak. Next set will be Hakas. Winter driving the Lesbaru AWD was a game changer for the Laurentians.

 

[Montana rider]

Team studded snows for winter driving (in CO/MT/ID) since 1996.

I asked a decade ago about high speed (hwy) driving, and the tire shop said that wasn't an issue any more.

I drive back and forth all winter long at 70, and (lazy) people rock their studded tires in BZN til summer.

Too I have sets of studded tires mounted to 2nd set of rims for all of our cars (honda civic and a couple subarus) that have lasted for MANY years due to having multiple cars and low mileage / work from home.

If you don't have to mount and balance each time you can swap them out in < an hour whenever you feel like it (i.e. when an ice storm is approaching)

If the highest priority is to make your lady feel safer driving on winter ice, studded snows is the call.

Yes they're noisy on dry roads, but pedestrians can hear you coming

Too I assume those cracks in your photo are called siping which increases winter traction, not necessarily a sign of wear by any means...

 

[konifere]

If you don't see the cracks that I see in the picture, that means that they're not too bad The sipes are welcome!

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Team studded snows for winter driving (in CO/MT/ID) since 1996.

I asked a decade ago about high speed (hwy) driving, and the tire shop said that wasn't an issue any more.

I drive back and forth all winter long at 70, and (lazy) people rock their studded tires in BZN til summer.

Too I have sets of studded tires mounted to 2nd set of rims for all of our cars (honda civic and a couple subarus) that have lasted for MANY years due to having multiple cars and low mileage / work from home.

If you don't have to mount and balance each time you can swap them out in < an hour whenever you feel like it (i.e. when an ice storm is approaching)

If the highest priority is to make your lady feel safer driving on winter ice, studded snows is the call.

Yes they're noisy on dry roads, but pedestrians can hear you coming

Too I assume those cracks in your photo are called siping which increases winter traction, not necessarily a sign of wear by any means...

Ain't siping.

 

[Jm_]

I've used Hakka R and Hakka 5s on various cars and Gislaved NordFrost 100s, but each time on a different car. It seems like I replace my car when the winter tires are done Out of those, the Gislaved + '92 Corolla was the best combo ever for snow driving but that care and tires are long gone haha

@Jm_ what tires are you using up there?

Also, the Maxxis NP5s are factory studded, like Nokians and Michelins. Maybe people lose studs on garage-added studs, which seems like asking for losing studs.

Ive got a set of Toyo Observe G3 Ices for both of my cars.

 

[Jm_]

@johnbryanpeters well, looking back at my current tires, I thought it was much worse and I don't think those cracks are a liability yet. Still, it's their last year on the car anyway.
View attachment 199666

Thats actually showing your sipes are worn, the winter performance decreases significantly as they wear, but as you’ll notice, the tire “seems” to be plenty. This is typically the biggest issue with winter tires. Driving in the summer the high silica compounds wear super fast. The sipes are super important for traction and wear pretty fast.

I do see the cracks at the base. Thats not ideal.

 

[stevew]

Studs really only work awesome for one season.

I've used a set of blizzaks for 6 seasons now. Those are the most durable option IMO. Just don't use them in the summer

i ruined a set of those in a week driving from parker to conifer housesitting a veterinarians dogs....


it was a fun week of driving...

 

[stevew]

what is not fun is having a studded 165/60/15 explode on the back of a 65 beetle at 5 in the morning on 470 in colorado....and trying to find a replacement when shit opens....pre cell phone days.

 

[kidwoo]

Hogwash, they will work fine for multiple seasons.

Not what I said.

What I said was by season 3, the blizzaks will be working better, closer to their new performance.

I said all the same things you're saying a few years ago. And then I found something better.

Also, I’ve never lost studs.

you're the only one on the planet

nice work!

 

[kidwoo]

If you have studs falling out after a month you should probably try and warranty them...

dulling in a month


usually missing a few by the end of their first winter

 

[Sandwich]

no comment on which tires are good right now...but

be careful about getting smaller wheels if you're driving an SUV. not sure what car it is, but a lot of times you'll run into issues with brake caliper clearance if you drop wheel sizes. I think I'd recommend 16" wheels over 15" in this instance as the tires are the same width. Narrower/taller tires are great for cutting through deep snow in a rally car but it's likely you'll be on pavement as much as you are on snow in real life.

 

[konifere]

Yeah I won't go smaller than 16" to be sure. And for some reason, the same steel wheels are cheaper in 16", making the 16" combo less expensive than a 15" kit. Plus I don't want to have too tall tires to keep some handling on pavement like you said.

The Maxxis don't seem very well rated and not reviewed much anywhere so I've narrowed it down to studless Michelins X-ICE Snow or X-ICE North with studs.

 

[kidwoo]

The Maxxis don't seem very well rated and not reviewed much anywhere so I've narrowed it down to studless Michelins X-ICE Snow or X-ICE North with studs.

We have 6 fleet/work trucks that we have snow tires for. It's been my way of trying things before buying them. Which means I've been through a lot of different options.

If you're going to get something studless, get the blizzaks. It really is the only one I've been impressed with enough to stop buying studs

 

[Jm_]

Not what I said.

What I said was by season 3, the blizzaks will be working better, closer to their new performance.

I said all the same things you're saying a few years ago. And then I found something better.



you're the only one on the planet

nice work!

Still BS. The blizzaks (yes ive owned a set) wear out the sipes relatively fast, and winter performance is significantly decreased, a couple seasons and they look like the picture above.

They are nothing like studded as far as ice, studs dont wear that fast.

 

[kidwoo]

Still BS. The blizzaks (yes ive owned a set) wear out the sipes relatively fast, and winter performance is significantly decreased, a couple seasons and they look like the picture above.

They are nothing like studded as far as ice, studs dont wear that fast.

I'll be on season six with the same set on my tacoma this winter

and that's a pic of a nokkian

But okay


I feel like I just insulted a tesla owner

remember when you lived in placerville? I've been buying multiple sets of snowtires a year since then

 

[canadmos]

Pick a tire and be a dick about it etc etc

 

[kidwoo]

FWIW, you can also buy a stud tool (heh) and replace them. I used to do that. Tire shops won't do it on a used tire but you can.

 

[Jm_]

I'll be on season six with the same set on my tacoma this winter

and that's a pic of a nokkian

But okay


I feel like I just insulted a tesla owner

remember when you lived in placerville? I've been buying multiple sets of snowtires a year since then

Yeah, and in all the living in sierra dumps, going up to Tahoe and surrounding area, studded tires were never even on the radar, the snow was never icy like that, like in the places where the sun angle means roads are in shade for months on end and the ice never goes away. My Dad live in Iceland, same latitude as me, and drove studded tires there. I've been driving them for 11 years here. I'll post a pic of my Toyos I just took. The studs still work fine. Being able to stop on ice is pretty obviously. It's also a lot different if you have a vehicle with a lot of weight on the axles, a lot of heavier vehicles don't benefit nearly as much from studs as the lighter ones, where the lighter vehicles just spin wheels at intersections and slight uphills unless studded.

 

[Jm_]

no comment on which tires are good right now...but

be careful about getting smaller wheels if you're driving an SUV. not sure what car it is, but a lot of times you'll run into issues with brake caliper clearance if you drop wheel sizes. I think I'd recommend 16" wheels over 15" in this instance as the tires are the same width. Narrower/taller tires are great for cutting through deep snow in a rally car but it's likely you'll be on pavement as much as you are on snow in real life.

It's kinda funny on some of the higher performance boards the people that will recommend ridiculously skinny tires...like your air-dam/splitter becomes a snow-plow long before those skinny tires become useful.

 

[Jm_]

Are they worn? Sure. Do they still work? Yep. These have seen 3 seasons, but I don't drive this set crazy hard either.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah, and in all the living in sierra dumps, going up to Tahoe and surrounding area, studded tires were never even on the radar, the snow was never icy like that

There's nothing better than learning how a place works from people who never actually lived in that place.

that was a time reference, not a tourist reference