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Worldwide terorrism-related deaths on the rise

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5889435/

NBC News findings run counter to recent Bush claims
By Robert Rivas and Robert Windrem
Updated: 5:56 p.m. ET Sept. 1, 2004

NEW YORK - As speakers at the GOP convention trumpet Bush administration successes in the war on terror, an NBC News analysis of Islamic terrorism since Sept. 11, 2001, shows that attacks are on the rise worldwide — dramatically.

Of the roughly 2,929 terrorism-related deaths around the world since the attacks on New York and Washington, the NBC News analysis shows 58 percent of them — 1,709 — have occurred this year.

In the past 10 days, in fact, the number of dead has risen by 142 people in places as diverse as Russia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Israel. On Tuesday, the number of civilians killed by terrorists totaled 38 — 10 at a subway entrance bombing in Moscow, 16 in a bus bombing in Israel and 12 Nepalese executed in Iraq.

Moreover, the level of sophistication is increasing. Terrorism experts point in particular to the attacks apparently carried out by Chechen rebels during that 10-day period. The rebels, whose top military commanders have been Arabs, are operating at a whole different level.

‘This is all coordinated’
“You have bombs on board planes, bombs at a train station and now a hostage taking,” says Roger Cressey, a former deputy Nantional Security Council director of counter-terrorism. “This is all coordinated. These things do not happen by accident, and in fact, United States officials are frantically trying to determine if they are a forerunner of an attack aimed at the U.S.”

Cressey was referring in particular to last week’s twin bombings of Russian airliners that left 90 dead in southern Russia, an attack Cressey says indicates a greater level of coordination and sophistication than thought possible just last year.

While fewer than 60 of the deaths since 9/11 have been American citizens — all of which took place overseas — other countries continue to suffer at higher levels than ever before.

Since Sept. 11, 2001, according to the analysis, around 1,500 have died in terrorist attacks in Iraq, nearly 700 in Russia, more than 350 have died in Israel, around 200 in Spain and more than 100 in the Philippines. [The numbers sometimes are imprecise because of the nature of the attacks, which leave many missing.]

Senior U.S. intelligence officials note that in fact, the frequency of terrorist attacks carried out by Muslim radicals is increasing, not decreasing. Moreover, they say the attacks carried out by what they now refer to as "central al-Qaida" are being dwarfed by those carried out by affiliates, such Ansar al Sunnah in Iraq, the Chechen rebels and even ad hoc groups like those who blew up the Madrid train stations. While there may be links to al-Qaida in terms of training and in some cases money, these groups operate independently of Osama bin Laden's command.

The threat in fact is “morphing,” as one senior U.S. intelligence official put it.

“You're talking about an al-Qaida that's trying to regenerate, and you're also talking about a movement that has looked to al-Qaida for inspiration but is not really al-Qaida central,” said another intelligence official.

“The thing we worry about a lot is what we call in some ways the localization of threat. Regional organizations that operate in different environments, that may have had some training from a- Qaida, that may have had some money, but that really see the world in al-Qaida terms and that's why we worry about them, and they are the wave of the future, and I believe that's the wave of the future for us operationally.”

As more and more groups get into the mix, say officials, there are more and more attacks.

In fact, the three worst months for Islamic terrorism since 9/11 were March [431 dead], February [393 dead] and June [245 dead] of this year.

With the three terrorist attacks Tuesday, the suicide bombing in Israel, the car bombing in Moscow and the execution of the Nepalese in Iraq, the August total will rise to 228 dead, the sixth worst month since 9/11.

Robert Rivas is a researcher at the MSNBC political unit in Secaucus. Robert Windrem is the investigative producer for special projects at NBC News.

© 2004 MSNBC Interactive
****************************************************
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
I know. If we just ignore what they are doing, stop what they claim to be the reasons they do what they do.....they will stop. Simple. :rolleyes:

Sounds like terrorism in other countries is on the rise. And the ones that happen in Iraq are mostly civilians murdered by the islamic extremists.....:think:

Just give in....do what they want....and everyone will get their throats slit. :rolleyes:
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
RhinofromWA said:
I know. If we just ignore what they are doing, stop what they claim to be the reasons they do what they do.....they will stop. Simple. :rolleyes:

Sounds like terrorism in other countries is on the rise. And the ones that happen in Iraq are mostly civilians murdered by the islamic extremists.....:think:

Just give in....do what they want....and everyone will get their throats slit. :rolleyes:
But apparantly having the current administration blow hot air up our butts for election year politics will alleviate the problem...
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Tenchiro said:
But apparantly having the current administration blow hot air up our butts for election year politics will alleviate the problem...
Both sides are guilty of playing the statistics card.

You can also say that only 60 US lives have been lost this year to terrorism :rolleyes: in the same report....compared to around 3,000 in 2001. If you want to get all "statistical."

Dems with say it is higher, Reps will say it is lower. WHo is right? they both are....both are using the "facts" to their favor. It is what they do. I guess the dems out right lying to us to in order to better their chances of election is OK. :rolleyes:
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,369
7,766
the greater point is that this war on terror is not reducing terrorism, and that it is exacerbating the root causes of terrorism. it is not something one can stamp out with an army boot and bull-headed leaders.
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
You could also say those 60 lives were lost this year, due to the current adminstration misleading the public to drum up suport for a war that really has nothing to due with preventing terrorism.

60 lives lost due to a 10+ year old republican vendetta...
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,369
7,766
zod said:
if we gave terrorists hugs they'd stop killing us........
you're being facetious, but there's a shred of truth to this. people aren't naturally inclined to mass murder or warfare. enemies must be dehumanized in the attackers' minds first...
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Tenchiro said:
You could also say those 60 lives were lost this year, due to the current adminstration misleading the public to drum up suport for a war that really has nothing to due with preventing terrorism.

60 lives lost due to a 10+ year old republican vendetta...
:rolleyes: Yeah that is it....

Nice broken unsubstantiated record Tenchiro. ;)
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Toshi said:
you're being facetious, but there's a shred of truth to this. people aren't naturally inclined to mass murder or warfare. enemies must be dehumanized in the attackers' minds first...
Brought effectively on by their religious beleifs?

We are non-human of course.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Toshi said:
the greater point is that this war on terror is not reducing terrorism, and that it is exacerbating the root causes of terrorism. it is not something one can stamp out with an army boot and bull-headed leaders.
My question is in the larger scheme of things....has terrorism been on teh rise becuase:

1 THE FARK'N USA :rolleyes:

2 Terrorism is found to be an effective way for a small group of peole to make a dent against larger groups.

3 Terrorism took a slump in the (insert time period) before then it was up during the (insert time period) and it would seem there are times in this crazy world that terrorism is seen to be the answer for small groups.

4 The ones doing the terror see their own way of life and beleifs being erroded and are fighting to the end to save it...be it substantiated or not.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,369
7,766
kevin, please read "imperial hubris" (by Anonymous). the author has been revealed to be one Michael Scheuer, a cia analyst of over 20 years. it's a good read, i'm working through it myself.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Slugman said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5889435/

NBC News findings run counter to recent Bush claims
By Robert Rivas and Robert Windrem
Updated: 5:56 p.m. ET Sept. 1, 2004

NEW YORK - As speakers at the GOP convention trumpet Bush administration successes in the war on terror, an NBC News analysis of Islamic terrorism since Sept. 11, 2001, shows that attacks are on the rise worldwide — dramatically.

Of the roughly 2,929 terrorism-related deaths around the world since the attacks on New York and Washington, the NBC News analysis shows 58 percent of them — 1,709 — have occurred this year.

In the past 10 days, in fact, the number of dead has risen by 142 people in places as diverse as Russia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Israel. On Tuesday, the number of civilians killed by terrorists totaled 38 — 10 at a subway entrance bombing in Moscow, 16 in a bus bombing in Israel and 12 Nepalese executed in Iraq.

Moreover, the level of sophistication is increasing. Terrorism experts point in particular to the attacks apparently carried out by Chechen rebels during that 10-day period. The rebels, whose top military commanders have been Arabs, are operating at a whole different level.

‘This is all coordinated’
“You have bombs on board planes, bombs at a train station and now a hostage taking,” says Roger Cressey, a former deputy Nantional Security Council director of counter-terrorism. “This is all coordinated. These things do not happen by accident, and in fact, United States officials are frantically trying to determine if they are a forerunner of an attack aimed at the U.S.”

Cressey was referring in particular to last week’s twin bombings of Russian airliners that left 90 dead in southern Russia, an attack Cressey says indicates a greater level of coordination and sophistication than thought possible just last year.

While fewer than 60 of the deaths since 9/11 have been American citizens — all of which took place overseas — other countries continue to suffer at higher levels than ever before.

Since Sept. 11, 2001, according to the analysis, around 1,500 have died in terrorist attacks in Iraq, nearly 700 in Russia, more than 350 have died in Israel, around 200 in Spain and more than 100 in the Philippines. [The numbers sometimes are imprecise because of the nature of the attacks, which leave many missing.]

Senior U.S. intelligence officials note that in fact, the frequency of terrorist attacks carried out by Muslim radicals is increasing, not decreasing. Moreover, they say the attacks carried out by what they now refer to as "central al-Qaida" are being dwarfed by those carried out by affiliates, such Ansar al Sunnah in Iraq, the Chechen rebels and even ad hoc groups like those who blew up the Madrid train stations. While there may be links to al-Qaida in terms of training and in some cases money, these groups operate independently of Osama bin Laden's command.

The threat in fact is “morphing,” as one senior U.S. intelligence official put it.

“You're talking about an al-Qaida that's trying to regenerate, and you're also talking about a movement that has looked to al-Qaida for inspiration but is not really al-Qaida central,” said another intelligence official.

“The thing we worry about a lot is what we call in some ways the localization of threat. Regional organizations that operate in different environments, that may have had some training from a- Qaida, that may have had some money, but that really see the world in al-Qaida terms and that's why we worry about them, and they are the wave of the future, and I believe that's the wave of the future for us operationally.”

As more and more groups get into the mix, say officials, there are more and more attacks.

In fact, the three worst months for Islamic terrorism since 9/11 were March [431 dead], February [393 dead] and June [245 dead] of this year.

With the three terrorist attacks Tuesday, the suicide bombing in Israel, the car bombing in Moscow and the execution of the Nepalese in Iraq, the August total will rise to 228 dead, the sixth worst month since 9/11.

Robert Rivas is a researcher at the MSNBC political unit in Secaucus. Robert Windrem is the investigative producer for special projects at NBC News.

© 2004 MSNBC Interactive
****************************************************



..and what is the common thread in all these killings?






Islam maybe..?
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Must be Islamic Jews...

Israel halts Jewish 'terror cell'


An Israeli court has convicted a Jewish extremist for belonging to an organisation that carried out a series of deadly attacks against Arabs.
The charge sheet said Shahar Dvir-Zeliger's group - which was not named - attacked mainly against Arab schools.

Prosecution lawyers say it is the first time that a court in Israel has acknowledged the existence of a violent anti-Arab group.

The group murdered eight Palestinians and injured 16 in 2001 and 2002.

"This is a very serious outcome from a public point of view," said prosecution lawyer Dan Eldad.

"It is the first time that an Israeli court has determined that a Jewish terrorist organisation exists which had the aim of harming innocent Arab citizens," Mr Eldad told reporters outside the court.

The last comparable case in Israel was in 1994 when the Israeli Cabinet declared two extremist settler groups, Kach and Kahane Chai, as terrorist organisations.

Dvir-Zeliger, from the West Bank settlement of Adei Ad, was also found guilty on four other charges including being an accomplice to murder and weapons-related offences.

He is the third suspected member of the cell to be convicted, but the first to be directly linked to the group, the Jerusalem Post newspaper reports.

He is expected to be sentenced at a later date.

Two other suspected cell members - Yitzhak Pass and Matityahu Shvu - are serving two-year jail sentences on explosives charges.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
N8 said:
..and what is the common thread in all these killings?

Islam maybe..?
Close... and Fluff has hit on what I was about to say:

If you think about it, this is not the only RELIGON that has done evil in the name of their "god". Islam is just the latest RELIGON to come about and feel the need to destroy everyone else in order to be legitimate. Unfortunately the leaders of most RELIGONs tend to let these things happen in order to convert more people and therefore gain more power/money.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
It does seem that most of the terrorists come from what they see as occupied territories. Therefore they would see themselves as freedom fighters.

Al-Qaeda are different but their raison d'etre has been explained already in this thread (or one much like it).

Of course it would not hurt to make oneself aware of the terrorists' motivations but then, should you phrase it badly, the warmonger Dick Cheney would take the piss out of you, whilst happily sending other people's kids to die fighting people for their freedom.
 

jmvar

Monkey
Aug 16, 2002
414
0
"It was a funny angle!"
<quote>Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchiro
You could also say those 60 lives were lost this year, due to the current adminstration misleading the public to drum up suport for a war that really has nothing to due with preventing terrorism.

60 lives lost due to a 10+ year old republican vendetta...

Yeah that is it....

Nice broken unsubstantiated record Tenchiro. </quote>

".....plus he tried to kill my daddy!!!!!!!!" Reason to go to war in Iraq given by GWB... Quote is from Far. 911....and just because Mike Moore put it on film does not make it false.....GWB is shown saying it with that stupid look on his face. In reality we know it is much deeper than this but just as unjustifiable.
 

golgiaparatus

Out of my element
Aug 30, 2002
7,340
41
Deep in the Jungles of Oklahoma
Toshi said:
the greater point is that this war on terror is not reducing terrorism, and that it is exacerbating the root causes of terrorism. it is not something one can stamp out with an army boot and bull-headed leaders.
Exactly, we are trying to destroy a hornets nest with a fly swatter. We might squash some key hornets, but we are going to piss of the other hornets.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Changleen said:
Is Rhino really called Kevin?
Yep 1st name. It is even on my bike. :D Had vinyl stickers made up at my first race (2000 Mammoth national finals) Still have that seat mast from my Rotec. :heart:

I am vain that way.

Kevin
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Changleen said:
Wow - I guess Kev is OK now after his crash? Did he lose a Kidney?
No I still have them.

I can not drink any sort of alcohal it would seem I get violenlty ill approx 24hrs later and throw up. Even after "a" beer or "a" glass of wine. I hav enot drank in over a year and have not thrown up since. *shrug* I might have to have looked at. Other than that I am fine no lingering problems fom the crash...but that alcohal thing is a bummer (not like I drank a lot before) when you can't accept a beer from a friend. Life could be worst.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
RhinofromWA said:
No I still have them.

I can not drink any sort of alcohal it would seem I get violenlty ill approx 24hrs later and throw up. Even after "a" beer or "a" glass of wine. I hav enot drank in over a year and have not thrown up since. *shrug* I might have to have looked at. Other than that I am fine no lingering problems fom the crash...but that alcohal thing is a bummer (not like I drank a lot before) when you can't accept a beer from a friend. Life could be worst.
Dude, that sucks. Sorry about that. What about Pot or other relaxants?
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Changleen said:
Dude, that sucks. Sorry about that. What about Pot or other relaxants?
*sigh*
I guess I am just high on life. :rolleyes:

I seem to only be affected by alcohal....*shrug* But I still have them :thumb: and was REALLY close to not having them so I count myself lucky.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Oops and thanks. :) Hopefully this dumbass has helped others think about things a little differently.

I wouldn't wish what I went thru on anyone.....:(

If you watch my posts since then I tell people not to push coming back from injury and to listen to their docs. :) Don't need to have any lingering injuries....if they are avoidable.