[N8 v2.0]

You need to be watching 20/20 PrimeTime and their special on VA Hospitals...

..yeeeeah... the government can do it much better and cheaper than private industry... riiiiiight....

 

[Westy]

The idea of socialized medicine scares the crap out of me. Healthcare is naturally expensive, my employer spends thousands upon thousands of $$s on my behalf for health insurance. Most of that money goes to paying for my coworkers who can't lay off the cigarettes, liquor, bacon and McDonalds, not to mention the hypochondriacs that need an ER visit if their nose gets runny. I would much rather get the money that goes to health insurance and take my chances, even if I suffer a bad accident I would still come out on top. Then there is the whole thing about the government not being able to do anything without a grievous amount of money being wasted.

 

[Silver]

Single payer and socialized aren't exactly the same thing.

Keeps the bureaucratic waste down, something I'd expect N8 to support...

 

[N8 v2.0]

Originally posted by Silver
Single payer and socialized aren't exactly the same thing.

Keeps the bureaucratic waste down, something I'd expect N8 to support...

...and who is the single payer...???

Oh... the Gov!


D'oh!

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Scary idea....

I'd rather see medicine and health care remain in the "competitive" realm so there is reason for it to continue to improve. Socialist systems - there is too little reward for hardworking companies and individuals to improve the current status quo, or to degrade what is current.

I appreciate that my boss provides better health care than most companies out there and pays 100% for it. We as a company, reviewed all of our options for healthcare, as we do each year, and we choose what is the "best fit" or the best for our money, etc. In a socialist system, I can't imagine I could receive half the health care I do now. And considering I'm paranoid of things like, visiting the dentist, or getting a shot, I'd hate to see my current and very caring and understanding doctors become victims of a socialist system that forces them to be come a part of a "status quo."

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Note to my above post: it is very likely that my rambling thoughts make no sense today. Sorry...kinda tired...not really thinking through my response .

 

[Toshi]

i think it's a horrible idea. medicare is enough of a mess already, as for many procedures it doesn't even cover the cost to the physicians/hospitals...

 

[Archslater]

Does anyone have some insight on how Canada's system works? Just curious. Something needs to give with the way our healthcare system is going, but socialism scares me.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by Archslater
Does anyone have some insight on how Canada's system works? Just curious. Something needs to give with the way our healthcare system is going, but socialism scares me.

Single payer. Basically the government steps in and plays the role of Blue Cross, or whoever your insurance company is.

There are some waits for things. You won't get an MRI tomorrow. But the flipside is, you don't need to make a bunch of money to get decent care. Overhead is a lot less, and the doctors don't starve.

Keep in mind, the US is (correct me if I'm wrong) the only advanced country without some sort of socialized medical care.

My insurance premiums just went up again this month...

 

[Lexx D]

I don't feel socialized med is the answer. But after working in health care for 7 years I'd say we need some Gov. regulation before ins. companies run the world. Maybe health ins. should be a not for profit sort of thing?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Originally posted by Archslater
Does anyone have some insight on how Canada's system works? Just curious. Something needs to give with the way our healthcare system is going, but socialism scares me.

The Canadian system doesn't work. That's way every year thousands of Canucks pour across the US border to seek medical services.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by N8
The Canadian system doesn't work. That's way every year thousands of Canucks pour across the US border to seek medical services.

How about:

The US system doesn't work. That's why thousands of Americans order prescriptions from Canada every year.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Originally posted by Silver
How about:

The US system doesn't work. That's why thousands of Americans order prescriptions from Canada every year.

In my opinion there is a huge difference between getting good medical care and saving a few bucks on perscription drugs...

One of the biggest reasons that drugs inthe US cost more is because of all the lawsuits and legal liability drug companies have to deal with. Make it nearly impossible to sue drug manufacturers and watch the cost come down.

 

[Tenchiro]

Just because the US or Canada may do it right, doesn't mean it can't be managed properly by a government.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Just because the US or Canada may do it right, doesn't mean it can't be managed properly by a government.

who has done it right? uk? brazil? canada? japan?

no.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by N8
In my opinion there is a huge difference between getting good medical care and saving a few bucks on perscription drugs...

Right now, I can afford insurance. I can make my co-pays. There are about 40 million people who can't.

I'm just saying that they may be a better way that doesn't involve insurance companies and for profit hospitals getting stinking rich.

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by Silver
Keep in mind, the US is (correct me if I'm wrong) the only advanced country without some sort of socialized medical care."

Pointing to Europe as a model to be emulated or looking there for leadership is like Sam Walton asking Sebastian Kresge how things should be done.

Originally posted by N8
In my opinion there is a huge difference between getting good medical care and saving a few bucks on perscription drugs...

One of the biggest reasons that drugs inthe US cost more is because of all the lawsuits and legal liability drug companies have to deal with. Make it nearly impossible to sue drug manufacturers and watch the cost come down.

Agreed. The gubmint eventually runs everything the same way- into the ground. It's hard enough getting insurance companies to pay for stuff. We want to make things worse by having to deal with complete idiots kept afloat by beauracratic nannies?

 

[Silver]

You can vote bureacratic ninnies out.

That's a little harder to do with an insurance company, unless you have Warren Buffett money...

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by Silver
You can vote bureacratic ninnies out.

That's a little harder to do with an insurance company, unless you have Warren Buffett money...

I mean the ones you actually have to deal with as a customer. My experience with most low level public servants is that they feel entitled to their gov't jobs, better benefits, nuclear half-life tenure, easy performance evaluations w/COLAs and practically guaranteed annual raises, and have absolutely no concept of dealing with people as paying customers. They just follow procedures to the letter no matter how illogical, are often highly inflexible and incapable of thinking on their feet and many display bad attitudes, a lemming mentality and poor work ethics. This is not true of all government workers(my dad is the hardest worker I have ever known despite 40 years of DoD service), but I believe most would not last a week at a "real" job where competition exists, you can actually get fired and you are judged on your outputs and performance.

 

[Silver]

My experience with the medical system in Alberta is completely different. I never ever spoke to a government worker. Never saw anyone but the doctor.

Unlike here, where I've spend a lot of time arguing with Blue Cross over stupid little stuff because they don't do little details like update info in a timely manner...

 

[Tenchiro]

Originally posted by Toshi
who has done it right? uk? brazil? canada? japan?

no.

I can't say, as I have never lived in any of those places.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Originally posted by Archslater
Does anyone have some insight on how Canada's system works? Just curious. Something needs to give with the way our healthcare system is going, but socialism scares me.

what is the problem? i mean, there is free school system here!!. of course is not as good as private. but definately, is better than nothing.
after all, if there were no public schools, a lot of people would never get an education.

i do think a socialized medicine is a good thing. it does better than harm. there will still be private docs, but people who cant afford them (and there are a lot as i see here in alabama), can see a doc, and people who can afford something better, well, they will, just like private and public schools.

i think the main objective of socialized medicine is to raise the standard of health for people at the bottom end of the health standard. and i think its good.

even i had the chance of going to free hospitals when i was in peru!!!!
i cant believe a rich country wont offer such a thing.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Originally posted by N8
The Canadian system doesn't work. That's way every year thousands of Canucks pour across the US border to seek medical services.

that does not mean a thing about socialized medicine.

even if the fact that the US might have better docs is true, that does not mean it is because there is no social health system here.


you are relating 2 unrelated facts to make your point.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Originally posted by Toshi
who has done it right? uk? brazil? canada? japan?

no.

that is very relative. what is right?

to have 30% of the people in the risk of dying for stupid things like colds because they cannot afford a doc at the right time??

or to be sure the littlest % of people possible is in that risk??
ok, so public health might no be perfect, in fact, i have never used mine in Peru. but i cannot deny it has saved a few thousand lives a years since its begining.
but those who want better, can pay their own. just like sending kids to a private school.

 

[JRogers]

Don't know too much about the issue. My brother once told me something pretty good: "I realized that socialized medicine would probably be a bad idea today when I went to the DMV."

 

[bohica]

the state of healthcare in the US sucks. socialized medicine is definitely not the answer. IMHO, I think that non-profit hospitals is the way to go. Shriners hospital, for example, is a non-profit hospital and provides excellent care. Granted that it's just for kids, but take the system they have in place and adapt it elsewhere. Dr's need to think more about their patients and less about their wallets. I work in a hospital and see the kind of crap that goes on. rant off

 

[Ridemonkey]

The couple of people I know from Canada have both told me that their health care system sucks.

 

[CouchingTiger]

Originally posted by Archslater
Does anyone have some insight on how Canada's system works? Just curious. Something needs to give with the way our healthcare system is going, but socialism scares me.

Yea, my wife is Canadian and her folks all still live there. Her dad has heart issues and has had a bunch of heart surgery. All I can say is, he got put on a wait list for a angeoplasty! Say what! In the US if your heart isn't up to snuff you get immediate service.

Another issue they have had is government cuts eliminating hospitals and headcount thus putting more strain on the remaining infrastructure. Additional, from what I understand, because of the fixed pay scale, a trend has been for the top Doc's to jump the border to the US for the increased almighty dollar.

IMHO, partially because of HMO's and rate fixing, our health care in the US is pretty bad. It's cookie cutter, non-personal, take a number and get in line medecine. Just ask the Doc's, they get budgeted/scheduled at about 10 - 15 min/patient (these are GP's by the way). They are overworked and in many cases underpaid. They are NOT the folks we want to be overworked and underpaid given what's at stake.

I can't imagine Social meds making this better.

-Couch

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by N8
You need to be watching 20/20 PrimeTime and their special on VA Hospitals...

..yeeeeah... the government can do it much better and cheaper than private industry... riiiiiight....

I saw that dude... it was FUHKED UP!
Like the paralyzed dude that was starving for like 10 days or something because the nurses would bring him his food and just set it by his bed and then leave

He was even asking them for help... I WAS LIKE :angry: