citation please. doesn't most of the energy come from the sun?
GMC Turbo Diesel FTW!
- Thread starter stoney
- Start date
Your point?
My point...
Sum up all the energy put into plowing fields, growing feedstock, and processing that fedstock into fuel and you will find that you will consume more energy than you produce in bio-fuel = Second Law of Thermodynamics efficiency.
My point...
Sum up all the energy put into plowing fields, growing feedstock, and processing that fedstock into fuel and you will find that you will consume more energy than you produce in bio-fuel = Second Law of Thermodynamics efficiency.
my boss has a turbo charged chevy..except his has a performance chip, and airbag suspension...that thing is damn fast, sounds sweet when it shifts too
my point is that i'd like to see a study that demonstrates what you claim above. if such a study exists i bet it has much handwaving in it...
Ford 2008-2009
Is set to release the F-150 in Diesel form. Initial rumors are a
4.? something liter.
It's the truck I've been waiting my entiring life for.
Power, Torque, and mileage.
As far as the diesels of Dodge....My Buddy has a 2003 dodge quad cab 4x4 and can get over 500 a tank on 32"s. I'm hoping that the new generations of the Ford combined with a smaller body will produce gret things.
Do a search, I think the intial article was in Peterson's
Toyota, and Chevy are also in the running. Only a matter of time now.
John
Is set to release the F-150 in Diesel form. Initial rumors are a
4.? something liter.
It's the truck I've been waiting my entiring life for.
Power, Torque, and mileage.
As far as the diesels of Dodge....My Buddy has a 2003 dodge quad cab 4x4 and can get over 500 a tank on 32"s. I'm hoping that the new generations of the Ford combined with a smaller body will produce gret things.
Do a search, I think the intial article was in Peterson's
Toyota, and Chevy are also in the running. Only a matter of time now.
John
So what do all the new desiel engines do to address that issue? Do yo have to put an additive in with each tank of gas ie that stuff from RBP?
They are there. Search any good database... combustion journals, SAE conference papers.
Trust me, I was in the diesel engine technology business for 6 years. I spent a lot of the government's and industry's money to solve these problems. I even have a patent that enanbles the current aftertreatment technology that is going on current 2007-2010 diesel trucks.
NOx Adsorber
I'm not real sure. I left the diesel engine research about 6 months ago, so I don't know what they are doing to address these problems.
I don't know about a study, but I can tell you that with a modern tractor, you would plow at least twice, plant once, harvest, and haul.
I'm going from memory, but I'm going to say that it would take about 50 gallons of diesel to plow 100 acres, perhaps a bit less, but we're going rough guesses here. The planting would use 25 gallons. The combine would use 50 or more and the truck would use a gallon for every 5 or 6 miles driven to haul it. Then, a train would haul it to feed or process, in most instances.
That's a minimum of 125 gallons of fuel to raise about a half a million pounds of corn at 100 bushels per acre, which is usually more than we get here, but less than the midwest. That's about 11 truck loads of corn. I don't think there is much bio diesel made from a bushel of corn, so you can kind of see where I am going. Hippies don't really crunch numbers on farming, so I don't see how they are so informed. I'll bet it kills them that real diesel is used to make their bio.
I've read a lot of the same studies that show biodiesel is made at a net loss in energy. What I've been really interested in but because of some of the fuel system components in my truck, unable to try, is a waste vegetable oil (WVO) conversion along the lines of these at www.greasecar.com Sulfur free, CO2 neutral, better lubrication compared to petro-diesel, the benefits go on...
congrats on your patent, but working in the field does not automatically make you an authority...
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24772.pdf
correct me if i'm wrong, but "3.2 units of fuel product energy for every unit of fossil energy consumed" sounds pretty good...thebigbadgovt said:
I was just going to post the same data. To summarize to effective energy output gained from one energy unit of fossil fuel is the following for each fuel type.
Gasoline 0.805
Diesel 0.843
Ethanol(corn based) 1.34
Biodiesel 3.20
I think the data refers to what current biodiesel production is. There are other crops that would be more efficient at prodocing biodiesel, the most efficient being certain types of algae. There is one powerplant that is experimenting with using a portion of it's C02 emmisions to basically fertilize algae which is then in turn used to produce more energy.
Cool, thanks for the link Toshi. I have to admit that I've never looked too far into biodiesel myself because it's availability is very limited around me and I just fill whenever I need wherever I happen to be at the time.
That's the news that I was hoping to hear. I hope it's not a pipe dream.
Here is a little article on the algae/power plant farm.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-01-10-algae-powerplants_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-01-10-algae-powerplants_x.htm
Tri-Met in Oregon has been running B5 for all buses for just over a year. The small buses (handicap and whatnot) have been running it for 3 years. They have a contract with Eastern Oregon farmers to buy the unsold soy beans that they produce anyway.
So the energy used to harvest the soy is spent anyway, the byproduct of unsold beans is BioDiesel. So rather than tossing it, it becomes fuel. That is a model of efficiency no matter how you slice it. There is also a large cost savings to both the state and mass transit customers. 5% can be huge for a fleet of buses.
So the energy used to harvest the soy is spent anyway, the byproduct of unsold beans is BioDiesel. So rather than tossing it, it becomes fuel. That is a model of efficiency no matter how you slice it. There is also a large cost savings to both the state and mass transit customers. 5% can be huge for a fleet of buses.
Yeah but also figure how much drinkable water is used to make all that corn. How much pesticides and herbicides to kill insects etc.
Diesel Power magazine talked about a process that converts coal over to diesel that seems promising...any thoughts PROFRO?
And considering that we have the largest coal reserves in the world it would greatly reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
Is that not where the LeMans bred particulate filtering systems are coming in? Audi are now starting to use them but only in the highest end stuff at the moment (Peugeot will probably follow suit relatively soon)
Naw that's all it is, a particulate filter with the exhaust gas recirculation. Were talking about how the old diesel fuel with 500ppm sulfur has better lubricity than the new diesel fuel with 15ppm sulfur.
Well, I have had some experience with government reports and I know their tatics. They publish data in a light to support their need for continued funding. I worked for a National Lab too. And when I started work there I was told behind closed doors that National Labs are in the business of keeping their funding. Bottom Line. Needless to say I was a little put out with that statement. However, NREL is in the business of finding renewable resourses. Read the smaller print...
"This statement is an oversimplification. We consider the energy trapped in soybean oil to be renewable because it
is solar energy stored in liquid form through biological processes that are much more rapid than the geologic time
frame associated with fossil energy formation. Also, other forms of nonrenewable energy besides fossil fuel exist."
"In addition to the energy and environmental flows in each step, we include energy and environmental
inputs from raw materials production."
They are handicaping petroleum since it takes a long time to formulate and they have figured that into their 3.2 units per 1 unit statement.
I'm not doubting the renewability of bio-fuel. But look into the studies that show the amount of required fuel and the available farm land to produce the equivilent amount. Again, its a loosing battle.
Yes, Bio-fuel is renewable.
Yes, it eases our need for foriegn petroleum.
Yes, its great for small fleets and independent users.
Yes, it would be great to help US farmers.
I am I for it? Yes.
Its is all rosey like the government tells you? No.
Its like the study done by the EPA that changed the NOx regualtions to the current 2007-2010 standards. They developed a test that showed that LNTs worked on a 5.9L Cummins engine. What they didn't tell you is that they only hade one side of the system working, but if you simply multipled the results for one by two then it would work.
They also didn't point out that the catalyst volume was almost 4 times the volume of the engine. Yikes. The government always leaves out the small details.
I did some prelim research for catalyst and substrate manufacturers a couple of years ago on Peugoets.
DPFs have been around for awhile that that technology is pretty well taken care of. Thay have settled on active regeneration traps. The cost of the precious metal in the DPFs is what is keeping them only in the high end cars and trucks for now.
All the new regs take full effect by 2010. But manufacturers have to phase in portions of their sales between 2007 and be up to full production by 2010 or they will start to pay a per engine penalty.