Warning to future intense M6 owners!!

????? · Apr 3, 2008

It will be a great bike for the groomed fire road downhill tracks that the NMBS has been choosing lately.

I'd still love to have one, but to me, I'm a bit confused by their choice of geometry between the m6 and the socom. I would think that the socom with the lighter weight and lesser travel would be lower and more raked out for smoother high speed tracks and the m6 with the extra travel would have geometry more like the socom for more technical tracks... I could be wrong though.

bachmayeah · Apr 3, 2008

hi there. i am new to this forum but almost riding my brand new m6.
i´m still lovin´it:

you want some pics? here we go.
its the m6 of a mate.

i had the same problem with my former m3 running a dhx air rear shock. but that was not that bad.
we´ll see what kind of solutions intense will offer.
here are some pic´s of a nearly complete compressed m6 from spain. please note that the bumper on the shock is not compressed yet:

jonKranked · Apr 3, 2008

^^^ props to the n00b for getting these pics!!

welcome to RM.

fattirerider · Apr 3, 2008

Run your seat lower and you won't have to worry about the tire going through the seat tube.

ronan · Apr 3, 2008

wow, thats ridiculous

Kanye West · Apr 3, 2008

Haaaaaaaa that's retarded....it doesn't take much to reach the bottom out bumper with a good DH setup. I don't see long lives for those frames.

bachmayeah · Apr 3, 2008

jonKranked said:
^^^ props to the n00b for getting these pics!!

welcome to RM.

thanx buddy

hope my german accent is not too bad

ontopic: i am not quite happy with that issue or the yet offered solutions (saddle down

/ spacer behind the bumper and so on)
although they would be very effective :biggrin:
i hope intense delivers a right and reasonable solution. as already mentioned: new drop outs or a redesigned new rear.
i remember the v10 problem those days where the to links hit the seat stays.
answer from sc: use a jig saw to remove a bit of the links (no joke)

oster_oops:
now i am still full of hope that intense or my lbs offers a good solution. we´ll see. i´ll try to keep you up2date.

General Lee · Apr 3, 2008

Ian Collins said:
i don't think you'd be too pumped on a bike with a 13.34" bb with almost 10" of travel.....most pros really wouldn't be.....kovarik is a strange bird in terms of bike setup.....

forget bb height, i wouldn't be too pumped on a bike with 10" of travel. I don't have the type of riding style that needs that much travel at any speed. I don't think it would necessarily make me slower but I can't imagine I'd like the feel of it either. I raced a season on a 9" travel frame and didn't care for it at all; 8" and change is where it's at for me.

toodles · Apr 3, 2008

I thought the M6 had less travel than 10" more like 9"? Ah well...

Be interesting to see what the warranty situation was if the tyre wore through the metal. What size tyre is that by the way?

***edit*** whoops... it says 2.5" in the first post. That's pretty crazy then.

Transcend · Apr 3, 2008

The shots of the white one WITHOUT bumper compressed is absolutely unacceptable.

Horror Business · Apr 3, 2008

Transcend said:
The shots of the white one WITHOUT bumper compressed is absolutely unacceptable.

I agree.

This is a high end DH frame from a very respected company and quite simply this is an oversight on their part. I hope they see this thread and hear the customer feedback and come up with a solution to the problem. They should apply this solution on future models they ship and help out the customers who have received their M6's already.

I would be upset if I paid that much money for a frame and it had what I consider to be a serious issue.

Horror Business · Apr 3, 2008

General Lee said:
forget bb height, i wouldn't be too pumped on a bike with 10" of travel. I don't have the type of riding style that needs that much travel at any speed. I don't think it would necessarily make me slower but I can't imagine I'd like the feel of it either. I raced a season on a 9" travel frame and didn't care for it at all; 8" and change is where it's at for me.

Great photos that clearly illustrate the issue and good job with your english. Welcome.

Superdeft · Apr 3, 2008

I think the problem isn't simply that a bumper needs to be added; the stroke length needs to decrease such that it's done compressing when the bumper is done compressing. An extended bumper and uncorrected damper means the damper isn't doing all the work it should be at the end of the stroke because it's valved assuming bottom out happens a few mm farther into the travel.

With this in mind, it sounds like a shorter-stroke shock with the same i2i is in order rather than a longer bumper. This means that some of the key conisderations in geometry for leverage purposes may be thrown off a little.

Ultimately the guys who say it's a design flaw are correct. However they accounted for the bottom-out situation, their model or testing wasn't sufficient in some way, because it does rub. Maybe they idealized the wheel /tire combo as being infinitely stiff, which it isn't, or for a smaller tire, or whatever, they should have just taken the thing out back and sacrificed one frame pounding it off the loading dock.

On the other hand, these guys may have a perfectly legitimate reason that we non-bike-designer-types have not considered.

not accounting for frame deformation, etc.

bachmayeah said:
thanx buddy hope my german accent is not too bad
ontopic: i am not quite happy with that issue or the yet offered solutions (saddle down / spacer behind the bumper and so on)
although they would be very effective :biggrin:
i hope intense delivers a right and reasonable solution. as already mentioned: new drop outs or a redesigned new rear.
i remember the v10 problem those days where the to links hit the seat stays.
answer from sc: use a jig saw to remove a bit of the links (no joke)oster_oops:
now i am still full of hope that intense or my lbs offers a good solution. we´ll see. i´ll try to keep you up2date.

Sam B · Apr 3, 2008

Ian Collins said:
just for fun i measured everything on my turner in contrast with sam's bike as listed in Dirt....

sam's numbers listed first, mine second....

bar height - 40" vs. 40.6"
wheelbase - 46.25" vs. 46.4"
downtube - 26.25 vs 26.4"
chainstay - 17.25 vs 17.45"
head angle - his is listed as 63.75, and i know mine measured between 63.5 and 64(couldn't get a super accurate read)......
bb height - i think his is around 13.75, not sure.....mine is 13.85....
dirt didn't list his top tube.....bummer

all in all everything on my bike is about the same, but a smidge longer, taller, etc.....i'm a couple inches taller than him though, so it's all relative.......i certainly wouldn't rate myself as a super fast rider, but i definitely like the angles of this bike more than anything else i've ridden.....

Both are static numbers I assume...

If so, the chainstay length may be more similar after sag due to the difference in wheelpath.

Your Turner is drilled and lowered right?

Ian Collins · Apr 3, 2008

Sam B said:
Both are static numbers I assume...

If so, the chainstay length may be more similar after sag due to the difference in wheelpath.

Your Turner is drilled and lowered right?

yeah....numbers are all static....my turner is not drilled....i drilled my old ones, but the new one doesn't need it....with 2.5F 2.2R tires the bb is 13.85........yeah, the sunday wheelpath will lengthen slightly once its into the sag.....the numbers of my bike and his bike are surprisingly close......

Kingswood · Apr 3, 2008

OK... well..... ****.... I have an m6 frame hanging in the bike shop that I need to pick up soon.

I was told it comes with a 2 year waranty, so I hope any damage from the back wheel is covered under that.

I wonder if I can protect the seat tube and seat clamp with something until a solution becomes available????

Huck Banzai · Apr 3, 2008

It's not a 'performance caveat' it's a flaw. Not restricted to intense, sure, but still unacceptable.

The idea that this is a drip down from pro spec is ludicrous. Intense hasan ENORMOUS amount of hype, and for good reason - they need to live up to it.

AlberTop · Apr 3, 2008

Just tried an M6 without the coil with Michelin Comp 24 2.5 and Mavic 823. Did not touch the frame!

Just like to remind that the M3s did the same thing with some tire/rim combinations and there wasn't any buzz about that.

Ksquaredracing · Apr 4, 2008

I just found this post and I have had my M6 put together for almost 2 weeks. I rode it last weekend at NMBS Fontana and the bike is awsome. I am not concerned that it might rub. If the shock is set up right it should sit high up in the travel and when it does bottom under extreme hits it should be very minor and only last a split second before it recovers and is back in the travel. Not to mention that it is a FRO frame and if your bike set up is correct you should never bottom your shock on a race course. If you are freeriding and trying that really big drop or attemting someting without a transition then fine, but that isn't what this frame is made for.
I didn't know if it it was going to be worth upgrading from an M3 but so far my M6 has been well worth the money.
That being said I am going to measure the wheel clearance without the shock as well as the actual BB height. It has not rubbed yet but if it is very slight I might have avoided it by running a 2.35 rear tire.
I'll post again tommorow with my findings, but regardless everything else about this frame is so incredible I don't much care if under rare situations there is a slight rub.

bachmayeah · Apr 4, 2008

afaik this day or the next intense will bring out some news concerning this phenomenon.
let´s wait and get surprised :clapping:

Kanye West · Apr 4, 2008

Ummmm aren't those supposed to have a pretty specific sag point for pedalling characteristics that is usally deeper in the travel? Also last I heard a properly set up DH bike should bottom a couple of times a run. Travel is there to be used.

I would like to see a shot of the bike with the wheel on and no shock, but the shock put at somewhere between 7" and 7.25" (theoretical and realistic compressed lengths), or see at what point it does contact and have a measurement of the i2i at that point.

tatankainlondon · Apr 4, 2008

regarding low bottom bracket - that is why I ride Yeti 303 - changing the bottom bracket height takes 30sec

I have 64-65-66 degree option but can also tune it anywhere in-between those numbers

????? · Apr 4, 2008

tatankainlondon said:
regarding low bottom bracket - that is why I ride Yeti 303 - changing the bottom bracket height takes 30sec I have 64-65-66 degree option but can also tune it anywhere in-between those numbers

That is great.

rowlands · Apr 4, 2008

another pic http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1897661/

Inclag · Apr 4, 2008

I'm 100% serious here, are people surprised by this?

Intense has a long rich history of these sort of things. It's completely unacceptable and its why myself and also a buddy of mine will never ride or spend hard earned cash on an Intense again. The sad truth is, people are willing to ignore these problems. I don't know if it is mostly because of blind allegiances or what, but I'd be willing to bet that 98% of the people here would go straight back to their car dealership if their new auto had an issue.

I won't deny the fact that Intense has done allot for the sport of DH, but is that history worth the price tag of what based on their engineering, manufacturing, and C.S. seems like a company just going through the motions?

Damo · Apr 4, 2008

So when the bike is bottomed out, the bb is a few inches from the ground...

What if the forks were bottomed too? What if the pedal (and therefor crank) was down?

You're fvcked.

tatankainlondon · Apr 4, 2008

I was removing a rear shock from my yeti 303 and out of interest wanted to see if the reat tyre rubs the frame. The rear tyre is 2.5 michelin DH16

Well, it is not even close :clapping:

There is at least 1,5inch gap. The only problem would be if the saddle was much lowers (I never have my saddle so low).I think with the shock body on, the gap would be like 2-3 inch, which is very reassuring for a heavy and not smooth at all rider like me. Silly me, I did not take the picture, but I will be removing the shock during the weekend so I will take one then.

Honestly, I am surprised that Intense has released bike with what appears to be a design flaw but I am not an engineer so I will not comments.

Threepointtwo · Apr 4, 2008

I am not going to bash Intense, I am a big fan and currently ride a Tazer but I think this should be fixed. I was one of the people who bought an Azonic B52 and complained to them about the tire rub situation. Well, they fixed it in record time. Kudos for acknowledging the problem and fixing it.

Before

After

DirtyMike · Apr 4, 2008

Seriously, whats the point of having that much travel, when the tyre continues to hit either the frame or the seat limiting your travel? Looking at teh pic of the red one comressped, If your running your seat in the lower postion, you losing nearly 1.5 of your travel anyways. So why not just get an eight in bike that doesnt rub????? At this point seriously, same eye to eye sock, with a little shorter stroke.

dhmike · Apr 4, 2008

good point dirty. have fun with the roadies this weekend wearing spandex at the redlands classic.

kidwoo · Apr 4, 2008

DirtyMike said:
Seriously, whats the point of having that much travel,

When karpiel does it, that's a gay huck bike

When intense does it, that's a highly tuned race machine designed to excel on the roughest of courses :rofl:

I agree though.......I'm too short be bunny hopping out of 4-5 inches of sag

PDS RX · Apr 4, 2008

You know your not trying to blow through 10 inches of travel, I mean just look how wrong that looks bottomed out. But I bet most of you would still trade in any of your bikes for an M6.

William42 · Apr 4, 2008

PDS RX said:
You know your not trying to blow through 10 inches of travel, I mean just look how wrong that looks bottomed out. But I bet most of you would still trade in any of your bikes for an M6.

what?

as far as I know, most people like to USE the travel in their bikes. Thats what different spring weights, bottom out control, compression settings, etc are for. I bottom out my bike about 2 times a ride. I'd be willing to be theres plenty on here who like to do it more

davetrump · Apr 4, 2008

Ksquaredracing said:
Not to mention that it is a FRO frame and if your bike set up is correct you should never bottom your shock on a race course.

assuming that you took your own advice, your bikes suspension is set up all wrong

great first post... by the way

edit: tires should not hit the frame, end of discussion

William42 · Apr 4, 2008

davetrump said:
tires should not hit the frame, end of discussion

PDS RX · Apr 4, 2008

William42 said:
what?

as far as I know, most people like to USE the travel in their bikes. Thats what different spring weights, bottom out control, compression settings, etc are for. I bottom out my bike about 2 times a ride. I'd be willing to be theres plenty on here who like to do it more

There is a big difference between using your travel effectively (the whole point in bottom out control and all the other settings) and just letting your shock smash close for that nice loud paping sound. Besides, the last inch of travel is usually only used for when you case the hell out of something, or just ride completely out of control in which case you dont need more travel just some better brakes. :lighten:

jonKranked · Apr 4, 2008

Damo said:
What if the forks were bottomed too? What if the pedal (and therefor crank) was down?

You're fvcked.

no you're not. so your pedal hits the ground, big whoop. i do that with mine semi-regularly. It doesn't throw your concentration unless you have really bad ADD. just adjust and keep riding.

stiksandstones · Apr 4, 2008

The guy in the sky is ripping on his M6 too, not just Kovarik.

General Lee · Apr 4, 2008

jonKranked said:
no you're not. so your pedal hits the ground, big whoop. i do that with mine semi-regularly. It doesn't throw your concentration unless you have really bad ADD. just adjust and keep riding.

And sometimes, if you do it just right this happens
(last crash at 1:24)

http://www.littermag.com/2008/news/newsarticle.php?newsID=1111

kidwoo · Apr 4, 2008

stiksandstones said:
The guy in the sky is ripping on his M6 too, not just Kovarik.

Did you hear a lout 'bbzzzzzt' when he landed?

edit: you need to post some more photos man. I don't think I've ever seen a bad one from you. And this place could use the riding content.

With the company you keep, I know you're sitting on some gems.

Warning to future intense M6 owners!!

Turbo Monkey

Chimp

Attachments

Detective Dookie

Chimp

Monkey

220# bag of hacktastic

Chimp

Turbo Monkey

ridiculously corgi proportioned

My Nuts Are Flat

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Chimp

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Chimp

220# bag of hacktastic

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Short One Marshmallow

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Fluffer

Turbo Monkey

Artisanal Tweet Curator

Monkey

fork ways

Turbo Monkey

fork ways

Monkey

Detective Dookie

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Artisanal Tweet Curator