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8 Speed petition

D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
8 Speed petition
So, I've set up a petition to try and convince SRAM to make high end 8 speed shifters. Shimano already has 8 speed XT pods still available, but SRAM only has X.7, which is hardly exciting.

I could go on at length about 8 speed, but the real point is this: Some prefer 8 speed and its benefits, and have no choice for high end bits. Even if you don't dig 8 speed yourself, help other riders get that choice and sign the petition anyways.
________________
http://www.petitiononline.com/sram8/petition.html
 
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1453

Monkey
Aug 20, 2007
813
0
down the road from Pleasure Point
I was under the impression that Shimano discontinued the XT 8-speed pods and whatever is left on the market is just remaining stock from the vendors. Or am I mistaken?

I would love for some more choices in 8 speed shifters, both my GT and Bullit use XT 8-speed setup at this point and a new source of 8-speed pods would be a good thing.
 
primo661

primo661

Monkey
Jun 16, 2008
412
0
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Signed!
I totally agree with you, I'm sick of a trillion gears between the one I'm in and the one I want to be in. Its got so bad I'm running 7 speed(still 9 speed just with some sprockets removed on my dh bike and real 7 speed from 1903 on my jump/4x/am bike). When those top sprockets are gone the chain lines up better, theres less gears to worry about, its easier to set up the derailer and keep it behaving, hell my jump bike has a bent deore that came off my big rig because it couldn't handle 9 speed but 7 speed is its new best mate. So I see where you coming from, good luck. I however doubt I'll get Sram or Shimano to offer high end 7 speed stuff so i'll take 8 speed.
 
?

?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,678
2
San Francisco
I just want all industry standards to work together and not require manufacturers to make 10 versions of the same product, thus driving up the cost. I guess what I'm getting at is... 9spd works for me.
 
Damo

Damo

Short One Marshmallow
Sep 7, 2006
4,603
27
French Alps
Jeff, fix the spelling and grammar in your petition and I'll sign.

If you send that to SRAM, they will throw it out with the Pinkbike garbage.
 
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djamgils

Monkey
Aug 31, 2007
349
0
Holland
Just a thought. Isnt it possible to combine a 8 speed X7 shifter with a X9 shifter? I dont have both of the parts here but I imagine the only difference is the distance between the pawls and the rest might be the same.

I just read your rant on dropmachine and I must say I am intrigued by the 8 speed stuff. And I just signed the petition.
 
Bulldog

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
Signed it, but honestly since Sram came out with 9 speed triggers I have not a single complaint. IMO Shimano makes 8sp because 2:1 cable pull is imprecise and requires it. Oh and I like X7 shifters. :)

Signed for choice. This has more potential benefit than a 25" wheel, that is fo sho!
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
I love SRAM shifters, but you just can't compare the action of the X0 with the X7. The X7 is solid, and feels great, but its kinda like the girl you settle down with because shes not TOO hot, but still cute, has a good personality and bod, and you can trust her. I'd just like the option of having the girl thats smokin hot, shallow, and you can't necessarily trust her.

X0 makes me giddy.
 
buildyourown

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Since Shimano doesn't make an 8sp thumb/thumb shifter, SRAM is the only choice. Personally, x7 has been better to me than x9. I snapped several in a few months before giving up and living with the mushier shifter in exchange for a stronger paddle.
If Shimano was smart, they'd make a 8sp Saint option.

edit, it does me no good unless they make an 2:1 version as I'll never buy another SRAM der in my life.
 
Gary

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,666
5,583
UK
SRAM already do an 8 speed shifter, so do Shimano. if you want it to be top end, paint it gold and drill some ****ing holes in it. :brow:
if you're going to petition for something at least make it something we can't already get.(I already run SRAM attack/XT 8 speed on one bike, XT rapid fire/8speed on another and X9 6 speed on my DH bike). changing the gear inner cable more often will have a far greater effect on performance than spending 3 times as much on XO
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
There is a marked difference between the action of an X.0 and an X.7. I have both. There is even a gap with the X.9 stuff. The X.7 stuff is a little clunkier, little less precise, and little...cheaper, for lack of a better word.

I beleive the X.9 was supposed to come 8 speed, but was dropped. If they would even send that out, it would be a boon to riders searching for a less finicky drivetrain.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,001
24,549
media blackout
Gary said:
SRAM already do an 8 speed shifter, so do Shimano. if you want it to be top end, paint it gold and drill some ****ing holes in it. :brow:
Click to expand...
If all you think the difference between a low end and high end shifter is a paint job and a couple of grams, you've obviously never used a high end shift for anything more than a parking lot test.
 
Bulldog

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
dropmachine.com said:
There is a marked difference between the action of an X.0 and an X.7. I have both. There is even a gap with the X.9 stuff. The X.7 stuff is a little clunkier, little less precise, and little...cheaper, for lack of a better word.

I beleive the X.9 was supposed to come 8 speed, but was dropped. If they would even send that out, it would be a boon to riders searching for a less finicky drivetrain.
Click to expand...
You are really calling Sram 1:1 "finicky"? Wow. I could not stand how picky XTR 9sp was and went to XT 8sp which was a huge improvement, but I did not notice any drop off in performace going back to 9sp when I changed to Sram, even with the lowly X.7.
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
No no, not at all. In fact, the SRAM stuff is far more resistant to crap them Shimano is for sure.

But 8 speed is even MORE resistant. You don't get that aggrivating jumping around. Every 9 speed bike I've ridden, SRAM or Shimano, has had that problem.
 
Bulldog

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
dropmachine.com said:
No no, not at all. In fact, the SRAM stuff is far more resistant to crap them Shimano is for sure.

But 8 speed is even MORE resistant. You don't get that aggrivating jumping around. Every 9 speed bike I've ridden, SRAM or Shimano, has had that problem.
Click to expand...
I will give you the fact that if the jump from 2:1 to 1:1 on 9sp was so great, there has got to be some benefit to doing it on 8sp as well. Problem for me is aside from a very very rare cable tension adjustment I never, ever touch my 9sp mid-level Sram adjustments. At that point it becomes nicer to have 9 speeds over 8 as there is no down side for me.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Hmm, am I the only one that has no issue whatsoever with 9spd? I've been running topend shimano drivetrains for the last 4-5 years and countless race seasons with nigh a broken chain or skipping gears. I have friends on topend sram that have had similarly good experiences (apart from broken mechs/shifters, which is no fault of the number of gears involved).

And also, for those guys preaching 2:1 vs. 1:1 babble, someone measured the actual ratios and it was more like 1.7:1 vs 1.2:1. So the ratio differences are minimal in actual fact, and I think the bigger difference between the two brands is/was shimano's old cable routing that resulted in faster cable deterioration. With the switch to shadow (or a rollamajig), I've found shimano to be on par with sram in terms of adjustment longevity and crispness.
 
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jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,001
24,549
media blackout
I switched when 9spd first came out, I had a few issues at first. But after about the first year, no problems. I don't see what the fuss is about. I just wish someone to would make a shift and cassette to go with this. Oh, and that this hub came in 12mm.
 
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no skid marks

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
Udi said:
Hmm, am I the only one that has no issue whatsoever with 9spd? I've been running topend shimano drivetrains for the last 4-5 years and countless race seasons with nigh a broken chain or skipping gears. I have friends on topend sram that have had similarly good experiences (apart from broken mechs/shifters, which is no fault of the number of gears involved).

And also, for those guys preaching 2:1 vs. 1:1 babble, someone measured the actual ratios and it was more like 1.7:1 vs 1.2:1. So the ratio differences are minimal in actual fact, and I think the bigger difference between the two brands is/was shimano's old cable routing that resulted in faster cable deterioration. With the switch to shadow (or a rollamajig), I've found shimano to be on par with sram in terms of adjustment longevity and crispness.
Click to expand...
It's not that big a deal, but it's more reliable, that means less tweaking, so you don't have to fiddle with your barrels as often, and there's less shifting to be done, and for racing, that = faster. It's also just a bit more obvious that it's changed, and 8 speed lasts longer, and should be lighter. They're all small gains, but a gains a gain.
and all the hacks out there can get away with running neglecting their kit a bit longer.
 
no skid marks

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
jonKranked said:
I switched when 9spd first came out, I had a few issues at first. But after about the first year, no problems. I don't see what the fuss is about. I just wish someone to would make a shift and cassette to go with this. Oh, and that hub came in 12mm.
Click to expand...
I run one of them on my XC hard tail, I just pulled apart cheap 8 speed cassettes, so I've got custom gearing for what I want it for. I think I'm running 11-32 with mainly equal jumps, accept the 32 is a big jump.
My Hadley single speed hub is better though, allen head bolts, and more clicks, but you can only fit 5 8speed sprockets on, you could probably fit 6 9 speed ones though. I used the Hadley on my Balfa BB7 when I had it, now it's just waiting for it's next call of duty. Stronger rear wheel from having same length spokes(no dishing)is the other main benefit to running a SS hub with a 5 or 6 speed cassette.
 
Ian F

Ian F

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
1,016
0
Philadelphia area
Viv92 said:
We still need quality 8 speed cassettes though right?
Click to expand...
+1 I still have a few useable XTR 8 spd cassettes... I may sell shifters, but those cassettes will be pried from my cold, dead fingers... I find it helps to install a new chain every year. Seems to prolong the life... an old chain stretches... and wears the cassette to match... installing a new chain on a worn cassette is guaranteed to give you problems...
 
B

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
Udi said:
Hmm, am I the only one that has no issue whatsoever with 9spd? I've been running topend shimano drivetrains for the last 4-5 years and countless race seasons with nigh a broken chain or skipping gears. I have friends on topend sram that have had similarly good experiences (apart from broken mechs/shifters, which is no fault of the number of gears involved).

And also, for those guys preaching 2:1 vs. 1:1 babble, someone measured the actual ratios and it was more like 1.7:1 vs 1.2:1. So the ratio differences are minimal in actual fact, and I think the bigger difference between the two brands is/was shimano's old cable routing that resulted in faster cable deterioration. With the switch to shadow (or a rollamajig), I've found shimano to be on par with sram in terms of adjustment longevity and crispness.
Click to expand...
I'm with you on 9spd. I have never had any issues with durability or reliability. No bent cogs, snapped chains, anything. This petition is really a solution to a problem that I personally don't see exists. The less shifting = faster argument is funny to me, since most people run road cassettes with minimal teeth differences between gears anyway.

The shadow stuff is nice, I still didn't find it as crisp though. My coworker made the jump to xtr shadow, and then jumped back after a few months based on the same finding. I think its really only relative to what you've been riding, and what your used to for pressure on the shifter. They do act differently IMO.
 
Patan-DH

Patan-DH

Monkey
Jun 9, 2007
458
0
Patagonia
Udi said:
Hmm, am I the only one that has no issue whatsoever with 9spd? I've been running topend shimano drivetrains for the last 4-5 years and countless race seasons with nigh a broken chain or skipping gears.
Click to expand...
Maybe because you are a light dude and do not put a lot of torque into your tranny.
Gating at the bmx track i have seen more 9speed chains to snap that any other.
Hell yeah, " a bit off topic" i have seen pro BMX'rs bend saint spiders outta the gate.
 
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