a DHer's AM/trail bike: Mojo HD vs Slayer vs SB66 vs Carbine
- Thread starter chillindrdude
- Start date
Any frame can break... Ironhorse, Knolly, intense... whatever.
vvvvLots of wrong info hereI second the Spitfire recommendation!!
4in travel in back with near DW-like (though not quite all the way) pedaling characteristics, full length seat-tube, tapered HS, geometry optimized for a 160mm fork (66 degrees with a zero-stack lower), and a LOW bottom bracket (about 12.75 I believe with a fox 36 in front). And DANG this bike RIPS. Climbs great, very little tendency to "wander" in front on steep tech climbs and switchbacks, just enough rear susp to help in real nasty stuff, long wheelbase for stability at speed... I could go on and on (but I have to get to a mtg in a few min).
LOVE mine...
It has 5" rear travel, not 4"
It is actually optimized for a 150mm fork but will accept up to a 160mm
BB height is adjustable with the frame's HA. with a 150mm fork it has a 13.1 to 13.6ish depending on tires on both of those. With a 160mm fork it would be a bit higher.
Its a great bike, I owned one for a year and my wife still rides hers (second season).
I have heard of a lot more issues with other companies than knolly. I have seen a local guy hit huge gaps and drops on the old endorphin with no issues. the newer ones will be stronger and more capable for sure.
Saying that all your friends broke chilcotins is also funny. They haven't even released them yet so if they were one of the few to actually be riding one it was a prototype and you can't fault them if they break. That is why they are prototypes. What about intenses cracking issues, mis-aligned rear ends, etc. Also "spots" had major cracking issues when they first came out, as did the DHR's (to the point they had to recall them). ALL COMPANIES have issues at times so if your only evidence of knolly's being crappy is a few guys you know who are on prototype chilcotins then that is not a good indication whatsoever on production knolly bikes at all.
Thats exactly the point. Saying don't buy a certain brand like you did above because you know a few people who broke them (again, prototypes) isn't exactly fair. There seem to actually be more issues with banshees right now (frame's cracking, bushing slop, axle wear, etc) than knolly so saying my suggestion wasn't good is kind of humorous to me after hearing what bike you suggested.
Now I am in no way bashing banshee either. great bikes and even better people. We still own a spitfire and a legend.
I've been in the market for a new trail bike as well. I want something lighter weight, lighter duty, and better pedalling than my current 2008 Rocky Slayer SXC70. I started wanting something else when I realized my intense slopestyle FR/DH bike pedalled and climbed better than my trail bike. The SlopeStyle pretty much sold me on the VPP suspension.
Coming from a BMX background, fun to ride is a must, meaning low and slack. Seeing as how I'm not the heaviest or strongest guy around, I feel carbon will be a good choice. Carbon bikes have a reached a point now where they are probably stronger than their alloy counterparts. When the Blur TRc was announced, I had my heart set on one. Until the Ibis Mojo SLR was announced. Comparing the two bikes and my application, the TRc won out, until the Carbine came to light.
Comparing the TRc and Carbine, I was orginally leaning towards the TRc but I decided on the Carbine in the end (have not ordered one yet, probably will over the winter). The 12x142 axle, ability to run a 150mm fork and some of the early ride reviews (voids the warranty on a trc) were some of the deciding factors. I feel the Carbine will be the right trail bike for me and trails I ride.
Coming from a BMX background, fun to ride is a must, meaning low and slack. Seeing as how I'm not the heaviest or strongest guy around, I feel carbon will be a good choice. Carbon bikes have a reached a point now where they are probably stronger than their alloy counterparts. When the Blur TRc was announced, I had my heart set on one. Until the Ibis Mojo SLR was announced. Comparing the two bikes and my application, the TRc won out, until the Carbine came to light.
Comparing the TRc and Carbine, I was orginally leaning towards the TRc but I decided on the Carbine in the end (have not ordered one yet, probably will over the winter). The 12x142 axle, ability to run a 150mm fork and some of the early ride reviews (voids the warranty on a trc) were some of the deciding factors. I feel the Carbine will be the right trail bike for me and trails I ride.
Not sure about that. My Spitfire measures bang on 13.1" BB height with a zero stack headset, Fox Van RC 160mm, DHF in front and High Roller in back (low setting).
The 150 mm BB height varies from 12.9" to 13.5" depending on setting and headset option.
http://www.bansheebikes.com/spitfire.html
Apologies for nit-picky homerism, but quite franky I was surpised that their listed measurements were correct.
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Yep Dave, that was me. I've owned a ton of bikes in the 6" range and the Dixon is the best all-around in my opinion. It's reasonably light, reasonably burly, and the suspension works amazingly well. It accelerates great, is plenty supple over small stuff, ramps up nicely on big hits, and is composed no matter how rough the trail. Other pluses include large pivot bearings that are all the same size, no pivot hardware threads into the frame, 12mm rear axle, great cable routing, best tapered head tube option (ZS44/ZS56), and has decent tire clearance. I wouldn't mind if the TT/WB was a little longer or if the BB was just a fraction lower, but overall the geometry is dialed. And a couple of nice tweaks are coming on the 2012 models. I just wanted to express my stokage on the Dixon even if isn't on the short list of the OP because it is a rad bike that hasn't had a ton of exposure. Here's a more recent pic setup 1x10.
The mrp 1x guide has a front derailleur direct mount option....I wonder if this will work with the carbine for a clean 1x10 setup. I need to do some research into this. But I think the carbine will be my next ride. Fanatik has a decent offer where if you buy the frameset, they throw in a Chris King headset. I prob will put in the deposit at the end of the month.
That should work fine. Basically the same thing at the seat tube mounted XCX on my bike. E13 has a Dtype XCX available as well.
Yeti ASR5c
23.5 lbs 150mm up front, 130 rear
23.5 lbs 150mm up front, 130 rear
And it's a winner! Brian Buell took 2nd on his in the inaugural Winterpark All Mountain Enduro, leading until the final stage when Ross Schnell motored on the longest and least technical route of the weekend.I second the Spitfire recommendation!!
http://www.trestlebikepark.com/downloads/enduroresultscumulative.pdf
I love my Tracer 2 BB height is not an issue because remember VPP tends to run more sag. With a pretty solid build it is just under 30lbs with a RS Reverb post and Angleset HS at -0.5. It climbs like a goat and decends like a much bigger bike.
The Carbine is a little steeper and a little less travel. If the Tracer 2 is not an option then the only choice is the Carbine.
I have spent time on the HD and did not like it at all, it weighed the same as my Tracer 2 and does not climb as well.
A DW bike I am impressed with and not sure why it is not on your list is the Turner 5spot
The Carbine is a little steeper and a little less travel. If the Tracer 2 is not an option then the only choice is the Carbine.
I have spent time on the HD and did not like it at all, it weighed the same as my Tracer 2 and does not climb as well.
A DW bike I am impressed with and not sure why it is not on your list is the Turner 5spot
I love my IH mkIII w/offset bushes, if it's anything like a turner 5 spot(I assume it's pretty darn similar,2010 and earlier geometry is very close to the mkIII, both are dw-link although I'm sure dw did some tweaks for turner) especially a 2011 w/the updated geometry it's on the top of my list when/if the mkIII breaks..
I demo'd a 5 spot and was not impressed. It does climb better than my sx (4x), but felt tall and spindly. I know part of that was the build (long stem, flimsy wheels and leaky fox float set to 140), but I really expected it to make me hate my sx. Instead, it made me really appreciate my bike. I think the spot is way to xc to be on this list, personally.
2011 5-spot? Just curious..
Did you demo the 2010 or 2011? Turner made some improvements to the 2011 that made the bike feel a lot better, at least to me. I demo'd a 2010 and got the same impression you did. I now have a 2011 and the lower BB, slacker HA, and shorter headtube fixed that "too tall" feeling. With the 44mm headtube, the bike is now compatible with an Angleset should you want it slacker. Mine's at around 67° with a 160mm Lyrik.
I also recently switched the stock RP23 for a Push'd Monarch Plus. Amazing, almost coil-like, performance from an air shock.
It was this summer from the Turner fleet, so yeah, an '11. Too bad they don't have anglesets or adjustable travel forks on the demo bikes.
Yeah... it's not a man's bike unless the HA is 64 or slacker and the BB 11" or lower. 
Gotta love the e-pose.
Gotta love the e-pose.
Agreed, it should be 69* and 14.5" BB height. Then it would be a man's bike.
It takes a real man to wear tights.
Just a word of caution, don't go too slack with a trail bike just cause it's the flavor of the week.
My Yeti is 66.5 HA and it's just too damn slack for a lot of XC trails. I have to practically kiss the front tire on some climbs, then the rear wheel gets unweighted and occasionally catches roots/rocks and spins the rear wheel. I'm actually going to lower the fork 20mm to steepen the HA
My Yeti is 66.5 HA and it's just too damn slack for a lot of XC trails. I have to practically kiss the front tire on some climbs, then the rear wheel gets unweighted and occasionally catches roots/rocks and spins the rear wheel. I'm actually going to lower the fork 20mm to steepen the HA
Yeah, like it would matter to someone who buys bikes just to bling them out and post pictures of them on the Toobz.
"This new RadiBike has a 62 HA and a 10.5" BB with PeeDublYew-Stink suspension and it lets me shred trails aggressively in my wet dreams! I put it on my $1,000 Kuat rack on my Porsche Cayenne and drive to the Organic Yuppie Store 3x/week. SCORE!"
says the desk jockey who fervently defends his fantasies on RideMonkey.
any opinions about the Trek Slash? available as frameset oct/nov timeframe. priced well, and i used to ride a Session so the suspension works well when the going gets rough. not sure how efficient it is on a climb...
i keep reconsidering my options...damn it.
i keep reconsidering my options...damn it.
Why not Specialized. One of my friends ride the 2010 Carbon Stumpjumper. Sweet bike. Next year the EVO will be carbon too which would such a sweet bike.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/specialized-stumpumper-evo-carbon-2012.html
Curtis' build is so perfect.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/specialized-stumpumper-evo-carbon-2012.html
Curtis' build is so perfect.
LOL... don't worry, I didnt take this personally. It does seem like pick on BB day though.
So first of all, regarding the knolly please see the part of my post where I say,
And yes, you are right... the Spitfire is 5in (127mm to be exact... maybe 128, I forget). My conversion is off obviously. And yes, 13.1bb with ZS headset and 160mm fork. That is still dang low though.
So isn't the
That son of a....
I really wanted a DW spot but I talked to Dave Turner MANY times and he insisted that he would not slacken the bike out, or lower it, or shorten it.... He also said that it would always have a standard HT (he thought about a taper for a little while then nixed it). If I had known he would "give in" I would have waited and picked up one of these!
have you played with stem and bar setup? i.e. slightly longer stem, and lower-rise bars?Just a word of caution, don't go too slack with a trail bike just cause it's the flavor of the week.
My Yeti is 66.5 HA and it's just too damn slack for a lot of XC trails. I have to practically kiss the front tire on some climbs, then the rear wheel gets unweighted and occasionally catches roots/rocks and spins the rear wheel. I'm actually going to lower the fork 20mm to steepen the HA
my nomad2 measures between 66.5 and 67 HA, and my uzzi/totem clocks in at 66...neither have a travel adjust fork. both (esp the nomad) get ridden on some long steep singletracks, and both tend to sag well into the rear travel.
anyway, for me the difference between a 60 mm and 70 mm stem was night and day in terms of the issue you were describing.
it also helps that both these frames have an ETT slightly on the short side (I'm 6' 3"), which means that for a given amount of fwd lean at my waist, i have more weight over the front wheel on a climb than I would on a longer top tube bike.
the positioning of your saddle on the seat post, and relative to the cranks/BB is really a big difference too...
Somebody ban this man immediately!!!I'm actually going to lower the fork 20mm to steepen the HA
On another note, people keep mentioning PUSH'd shocks as being the bees knees. My Nomad C needs some shock love.
Please please please PUSH, offer your services to offshore customers.....please.......
Oh, didn't realize we were talking about a "man's bike". I thought we were ISO a DHer's AM/ trail bike. My bad...Yeah... it's not a man's bike unless the HA is 64 or slacker and the BB 11" or lower.
Gotta love the e-pose.
FWIW, whatever my next bike is, it's geo will mirror my '05 sx with the taller bb shock shuttle. I haven't ridden anything else that is as much fun on my local trails. The rest of you can go as steep or as tall as you can find.
Doing this makes the Asr 5 ride better in every way. That bike is still slack at 130mm, and it will give you better handling all around and a better seat tube angle for pedalling.I'm actually going to lower the fork 20mm to steepen the HA
i guess my gullible ass bought into the hype...but f- it, i put down some greenbacks for a deposit on the 2012 Trek Slash frameset today.
criticize/hate away!
criticize/hate away!
I have a med. 575 anniversary for sale,....
My SB is going to be here soon.
My SB is going to be here soon.
No hate here. That bike looks pretty bad ass. I was the BB was lower, according to the geo chart it should be 14.17 in the low setting.i guess my gullible ass bought into the hype...but f- it, i put down some greenbacks for a deposit on the 2012 Trek Slash frameset today.
criticize/hate away!
I have ridden Specy Enduros, have spent some time on my dad's Tracer 2, and personally own a Nomad C. The Specialized bikes corner awesome and are really active, but I don't think they pedal quite as well as other bikes unless using a bunch of LSC or ProPedal.
I've ridden the Tracer 2 on a few rides and I was pretty surprised at how well the bike handles rough terrain. It's nice and stiff and the low slung frame corners very well, and the rear suspension plows over roots and rocks much better than I expected. It tracks the ground better than any other trail bike I've ridden, but with the suspension set up as it was it didn't allow the bike to jump around as well as I would have expected. It doesn't pedal very well with the RP23 rear shock in the open position, but with ProPedal on the bike sits much higher in its travel and pedals very well.
My Nomad C is the stiffest frame I've ever ridden, and the suspension action is awesome. I has great pop out of corners, and while it doesn't pedal as well as the Ibis bikes, it handles rough downhills much better. The RP23 shock was a bit disappointing in the stock configuration, though it improved after Fox upped the oil weight a little bit. I swapped the upper link for the new Push linkage and threw on an RC4, and the bike has come alive. It descends better than ever without losing the snappiness in the corners or pedaling ability that make it such an awesome all arounder. The beauty of the carbon frame is not only the stiffness - its so light that I was able to throw on a coil shock and heavier upper link while still keeping the bike under 32 pounds. And that's with a solid build. I really can't ask for much more from a bike for my kind of riding, and though I do sometimes wish the top tube was a touch longer with a shorter back end along the lines of a Specialized, its about as good as an all mountain bike gets.
If you're looking a bike more on the "trail" side, the Intense is probably better if you're willing to flip the ProPedal lever when climbing, but for a truly versatile all mountain bike capable of burlier riding and even top-to-bottom laps at Whistler, the Nomad C is awesome.
Hope that helps a bit.
I've ridden the Tracer 2 on a few rides and I was pretty surprised at how well the bike handles rough terrain. It's nice and stiff and the low slung frame corners very well, and the rear suspension plows over roots and rocks much better than I expected. It tracks the ground better than any other trail bike I've ridden, but with the suspension set up as it was it didn't allow the bike to jump around as well as I would have expected. It doesn't pedal very well with the RP23 rear shock in the open position, but with ProPedal on the bike sits much higher in its travel and pedals very well.
My Nomad C is the stiffest frame I've ever ridden, and the suspension action is awesome. I has great pop out of corners, and while it doesn't pedal as well as the Ibis bikes, it handles rough downhills much better. The RP23 shock was a bit disappointing in the stock configuration, though it improved after Fox upped the oil weight a little bit. I swapped the upper link for the new Push linkage and threw on an RC4, and the bike has come alive. It descends better than ever without losing the snappiness in the corners or pedaling ability that make it such an awesome all arounder. The beauty of the carbon frame is not only the stiffness - its so light that I was able to throw on a coil shock and heavier upper link while still keeping the bike under 32 pounds. And that's with a solid build. I really can't ask for much more from a bike for my kind of riding, and though I do sometimes wish the top tube was a touch longer with a shorter back end along the lines of a Specialized, its about as good as an all mountain bike gets.
If you're looking a bike more on the "trail" side, the Intense is probably better if you're willing to flip the ProPedal lever when climbing, but for a truly versatile all mountain bike capable of burlier riding and even top-to-bottom laps at Whistler, the Nomad C is awesome.
Hope that helps a bit.
thanks smartygirl. you sure showed me with failing lead balloon non-sarcasm!
continue posing on the internet as a heroic master of all things "core." it's a real win in life, to be an internet hardguy!
What? Is that English?
You'll need to talk slower and use less slang if you want me to understand you. I'm old. I'm not a tough guy, but I know what I like, and I kinda figured the OP was looking for the same thing in a trail bike. That is: NOT the typical slightly slack and tall xc geometry. Sorry if my opinion makes you feel like you need to blindly take swings at me. That is a nice looking ride. What's it weigh?