personally, think mt snow has the potential for a world class bike park - they've got the terrain, infrastructure, and money, but i guess they just don't wanna spend the money.
2017 offseason guessing game - gossip thread
- Thread starter Mo(n)arch
- Start date
in regards to short trails, windham surprisingly is on the opposite end. despite only have 4 trails, they are 4 FULL trails (no shared sections) top to bottom. even the WC track takes a decent amount of time (for the average rider)
I don't think that'll ever happen. They can't run bikes from the summit lift. I know at one point it was because of some rare mating birds that lived up there, the next thing I heard was the National Forest service gave them permission to put in a new summit lift for winter use, but they couldn't run bikes from the summit in the summer. Could be bullshit, but that's what I heard. I don't think the management there gives a rats ass about mountain biking anyway.
I agree on Thunder. I love the place, it's an hour and a half from me and I had a season pass last year. But they could really use some more natural DH trails. The management there seems very open to suggestions. You'll see the owner loading bikes some days, and he's asked on more than one occasion what we'd like to see there. What they do for next season remains to be seen, but I'm hopeful. They are only two years into it too.
Regarding the cuntification of modern WC tracks, this seems odd to me given some of the venues last season:
- Ft. Bill (maybe stale, but it he still brings the wheel wrecking gnar and is hardly what I would consider "bike parkey")
- Lourdes (widely celebrated for its raw and nasty lines)
- Mt. St. Anne (see Ft. Bill)
- Vallnord (cray)
- VDS (cray)
I get that Cairns, Leo and to some extent Lenzerheide are considered bitch tracks, but even those have their share of gnar-bra in spots.
- Ft. Bill (maybe stale, but it he still brings the wheel wrecking gnar and is hardly what I would consider "bike parkey")
- Lourdes (widely celebrated for its raw and nasty lines)
- Mt. St. Anne (see Ft. Bill)
- Vallnord (cray)
- VDS (cray)
I get that Cairns, Leo and to some extent Lenzerheide are considered bitch tracks, but even those have their share of gnar-bra in spots.
yea, i knew there was some other behind the scenes non-sense, but the general recollection i have is that the management their just doesn't care, which was a big reason why a lot of the builders who did their flow/jump lines left.
Strange there is no pictures of the team bike in the first PR.
Love that Thunder is nearby, but need to get out there more. I mean I get it. Flow trails can be fun. They have JUMPS which send you in the AIR woopdy doo! I can't jump worth shit and have the hardware in my arm to prove it. So yea, I'll admit that it is kind of fun to launch yourself and overshoot down the backside of the final Hawleywood step-up at mach stupid, but I just don't get the appeal of trails that are the equivalent of a dog obstacle course.
I just wish that someplace in the area would establish multiple big, wide-cut, off-camber, ninja holed, wheel eating, natural drop/jump/fall line style tracks. Tracks that remind you why downhill bikes rule the roost for a certain style of terrain. The best moments I've had when riding are the ones with people and friends where you're riding on that of edge your individual skills and getting loose and being able to real it in, only to laugh like idiots at the bottom of the hill that you all made it down in one peace.
This isn't a dig on Thunder or Gravity Logic cause it's probably the best place in the Northeast at the moment, but I just feel that a lot of the 'black diamond' trails are properly marked if you consider it 'lift-assisted mountain biking'. Maybe it's me, but it just seems like trails are just really conservative around these parts. I should probably go change my tampon. Too many rad videos to watch, not enough riding for me, and being perpetually jealous of people that live in areas with elevation changes in the ~1000ft+ range is making me crabby.
Anyway, looks like Canyon embargo has been lifted, so lets talk about what we already new a couple weeks ago...
Came here to post the same thing. Some tracks are a little tamer, but is that the UCI's fault? Isn't it up to a promoter to pitch a venue? I suppose the UCI approves teh tracks that are pitched to them, but I still think it's up to the "gnar-gnar bro" venues to make the case for the UCI to come to them...Edited to add: http://www.bikemag.com/news/canyon-announces-factory-downhill-team/#0pDW9CWmPZXhYAMJ.97
Nigel Reeve and Mark Wallace. They're what's left of Devinci Global Racing? Glad to see them land somewhere solid. Would be nice to see Mark continue to evolve and carry the Chainsaw flag... #longlivechainsaw
Whereas from riding it since 1994 I'd say it's evolved into what I'd consider EXACTLY that.
Small (abridged) history lesson
The original track was only the lower half with no chairlift access and was almost entirely natural.
when it was extended to the top they used half the walkers trail (natural) and shipped in a lot of the GNAR for the middle sections. and the original (Natural/rough) end of the track (40secs) was replaced with a completely manmade smooth pedally "motorway" section.
When the French (Avalanche Cup guys) came over to inspect the track for it's first properly international race they said it could not be used as it was too dangerous (High speed)
So the famous Bus stops etc. were helicoptered in to slow it down.
Next the WC came to town... the Motorway finish was again redesigned to finish STRAIGHTER. with a couple of spectator friendly finish line jumps/drops
A few years passed and the manmade GNAR in the mddle was re-scuplted. the Motorway jumps tweaked.
Another few years passed and the Start was moved higher to lengthen the track and take the start right up to the Gondola station. This is when the manmade jumps, berms and long Boardwalk sections were added.
Next it got Wooden WALLRIDES..
a camera friendly Hip jump into a berm
a camera friendly drop into a berm.
a gap jumps.
a new BIG spectator friendly rhythm section for the "Motorway"
The track is now longer in distance BUT it's shorter in duration.
Watch footage... other than a tiny section (10secs) in the woods it's pretty much a one line track for the entire top 80 men.
Don't get me wrong I still enjoy riding the thing but other than when someone gets it wrong big time watching the WC there kinda bores me.
I don't know man, when I watch the gopro footage, I'm always surprised how long the upper section is (before going into the woods). It's what, two minutes of arm-pounding mega-gnar? sure, there's a few boardwalks thrown in there, but they make up what, 10, 15 seconds total? Obviously, I could be wrong, as I've never been, but but from the gopro footage, that upper section looks rough and long...
The WC needs more rain. Global warming is changing DH courses for the worse. Make DH Wet again!
Denzel agrees
Maybe the venues should aim their snow making guns onto the course and make mud great again.
Good info and I can't argue with the fact that some bike parky features have been added over the years. Like slyfink, I still maintain much of the upper half still has a lot of teeth based on GoPros and actual race footy. And hell, it sure seemed like that last jump before the finish line was giving a few riders problems (which I suppose can be attributed to a wonky lip more than anything).
I guess I'm wondering if its acceptable to have both some OG gnar and some big honkin jumps [gasp]? Or is the only proper DH track Mt. Psychosis and a mud slide at Champery?
I have 1000 runs in me.
Zero were go pro'd
top section = 40secs until you drop off the last boardwalk into the first rock. (this whole section is mainly smooth(ish) berms with 2 boardwalks)
then starts the ROCKGNAR which takes up about half the course (2mins maybe) and ends with a quick foray into a 10-15sec section of usually wet woods. and NOW exits over the drop into the berms and the big wallride.
From there the track is 1min 20 of quite FLAT.
Flat woods with the odd rock n root but nothing really rough or gnar then Flat smooth motorway with jumps and one final plummet to the finish which has a horrible rough bit in the middle if you're weak.
You need to be fit and strong for it. that's for sure. that 2mins of RockGnar beats you to hell and leaves the unfit just hanging for the last part... way more so if you're on the brakes through the rocks.
of course it is... My only point here is (and despite it being so good for UK DH). Ft William needs to FUCK OFF the tour sometimes
Wasn't Hafjell like this? If I recall correctly, most people seemed to enjoy it. It was certainly fun to watch.
Maybe Bromont should host another event. Those crazy French peeps have the rox and can toss in some hucks and jumps for good measure.
Perhaps this is to your point, but it is interesting that Sam Hill has had such success at Ft. Bill (shoulder-boulder explosion notwithstanding) given the numerous flat-ish sections and that he was not considered a particularly strong pedaler back in the day. Then again, we are talking about Sam "Mother Fucking" Hill, so maybe he put 15 seconds into the field in the rockgnar and essentially cruised the rest of the way.
No you're right, but I'm pretty sure Hill has won at least twice, and was a close second a few years ago when Troy won. Point being, maybe the current flat sections you referenced weren't part of the track (or less of it anyway) when he was winning there.
sooo kinda like the awesome old norba mt snow course? I know this sounds awful but I've been trail riding a lot more than DH the past few years. truth be told, I didn't touch the DH bike once this year. I miss the old sketchy Sunday River, Mt Snow etc trails and tracks. There were occasional (haphazardly) put together jumps...but most of it was natural and not bike park-like. I've honestly gotten really bored with bike park stuff.
amen to that.
holy shit, that's total fuckin' blasphemy for a brit DHer to say. Maybe now that peat is off the tour the industry will stop slobbin his knob and will explore some new/old/good venues. Though Denny 'Art is the Next Big Thing, so may as well keep it.
Quick question.... What the hell are bus stops? I've been reading about them for years but never had an unequivocal answer as to what they are.
Bus stop = basically a short detour off mainline that then rejoins the track... often before corners but also off faster sections to slow the track down and add a technical ellement to an otherwise straight piece of track... a bit like a chicane in motorsport.
or somewhere the bus pulls over to collect and drop off passengers.
or somewhere the bus pulls over to collect and drop off passengers.
Calm down dear. Firstly I'm a Scot (Just pointing out there is a difference). And incase you hadn't noticed I tend to say what I actually think. Not what I'm expected to.
Ps. Fuck patriotism. it only breeds HATEFUL LITTLE SHEEP!
To me the tracks seem to be too bikeparky or "hold on for your your dear life one line brraaaap" gnar.
Like Ft. Bill you have this beat up rocky track that gets hit in mach stupid mode, which is tough on the bike and the rider but not very enjoyable to ride.
Schladming on the opposite was lots of offcamber rooty goodness in the woods with tons of line choice and a few berms with a whip jump thrown in.
Even Val di sole this year looked to be just a one line show, beside the part where Gwin completely lost it.
I for one am enjoying technically demanding tracks with steeps, off camber roots and ruts sections in mid speed way more then beat up moto tracks where only the speed makes it scary and demanding to ride.
Like Ft. Bill you have this beat up rocky track that gets hit in mach stupid mode, which is tough on the bike and the rider but not very enjoyable to ride.
Schladming on the opposite was lots of offcamber rooty goodness in the woods with tons of line choice and a few berms with a whip jump thrown in.
Even Val di sole this year looked to be just a one line show, beside the part where Gwin completely lost it.
I for one am enjoying technically demanding tracks with steeps, off camber roots and ruts sections in mid speed way more then beat up moto tracks where only the speed makes it scary and demanding to ride.
Argh I forgotCalm down dear. Firstly I'm a Scot (Just pointing out there is a difference). And incase you hadn't noticed I tend to say what I actually think. Not what I'm expected to.
Ps. Fuck patriotism. it only breeds HATEFUL LITTLE SHEEP!
rude isn't going anywhere.
Is Gwin going back to Dreck?
Very cool news. Now we just need @mtg to license the Freedom Linkage™ to the American powerhouse! (I don't care if this is technically possibly, it should happen).
Get em Neko!!!!!!!
As a mountainbiker you can appreciate the steep, tech parts of a track. However, the general viewer is more impressed with raw speed and big jumps. Everybody wants more exposure and more sponsors which requires broadening the appeal of DH. So the tracks have to change to something that can be televised (open fast sections are good for that) and show the speed and steepness well. No average Joe can appreciate the difficulty of hitting a off camber root section that makes some of the best bike handlers in the world look like they don't know what they are doing.
Personally I would love to see a WC series with more, and more varied tracks. Fast, moto style, bikepark jump lines, city DH, natural gnar and pedally stuff. This would really show who is the most talented rider in the world.
My list would be: Val di Sol, Champery, Willingen, Cairns, Lisbon, Valparaiso, Mt St. Anne, Maribor, Schladming, Whister Air DH, Nevegal, Lourdes, Mammoth
HoneyBaked Hams is this year's corporate? ...that'll never mix with Monster Energy though.
Never.