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2018 Very Respectful World Cup #1: Lošinj

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,926
671
Sorry if I helped fuel it. I was hoping to extinguish it by pointing out that DH is an objectively higher level of competition (in addition to being more spectator and camera friendly).
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,516
4,767
Australia
I don't know why were arguing about this. Downhill requires way higher levels of technique and finesse, while simultaneously requiring the rider to be extremely fit. Those skills transfer over well to enduro, hence there being a pretty easy transition for most DH'ers.
Who's arguing? I'm agreeing that DH is waaaay more competitive. In fact those top 5 riders are just doing the enduro riders a favour by not showing up to a couple of EWS rounds and stealing all the prize money and endorsements.

DH racers literally practise the same track multiple times for days beforehand coaxing ever millisecond out of every section. Of course its more competitive, those guys have to be super dialled and not make a single mistake or their run is over. Enduro is just where they go when their bones hurt too much and they want to ride some rough cut, janky trails with a raw, natural vibe about them.

Sorry if I helped fuel it. I was hoping to extinguish it by pointing out that DH is an objectively higher level of competition (in addition to being more spectator and camera friendly).
In other breaking news, the 100m sprint is a higher level of competiton and easier to televise than a marathon.
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
566
412
Who's arguing? I'm agreeing that DH is waaaay more competitive. In fact those top 5 riders are just doing the enduro riders a favour by not showing up to a couple of EWS rounds and stealing all the prize money and endorsements.

DH racers literally practise the same track multiple times for days beforehand coaxing ever millisecond out of every section. Of course its more competitive, those guys have to be super dialled and not make a single mistake or their run is over. Enduro is just where they go when their bones hurt too much and they want to ride some rough cut, janky trails with a raw, natural vibe about them.



In other breaking news, the 100m sprint is a higher level of competiton and easier to televise than a marathon.
Yep. Downhill higher level, more exciting. But Sam Hill.
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
You know that moment when somebody says something with facts so clearly cherry picked to try and convince you 2+2=5, and you don't know whether you should respond? Then you realize it's on the internet and that you definitely shouldn't respond because they're for sure either trolling or also believe the earth is flat. Unfortunately for me, I'm easily baited.

Yeah, lets give some credit where its due. Sam Hill was one of the greatest downhillers ever, and had some impressive results over his career. So if anybody is going to successfully make a transition to an easier discipline that will still reward somebody with his particularly skills, he'd be one of them. Just like I'd expect Nico to do well (he did), Graves to do well (he did), ACC to do well (she did), I'd expect Rude to do well too, because he was pretty fucking good at DH when he used to ride it too. He did.

Here's Sam Hills results without the cherry picking though. Because lets be honest: Cairns was was a 3 minute and 30 second enduro trail. He rode it on an enduro bike, there was nothing particularly intense about it, it was slower speed, and he still couldn't even win it (despite being the overall EWS winner that year). Hell there was a 30 second flat sprint at the bottom.

As far as his DH race results, here they are toward the end of his career in DH WC.

2015:
#1: DNS
#2: Out with Injury
#3: Out with Injury
#4: 58th
#5: 20th
#6: 76th
#7: 68th
Worlds: 45th

2016:
#1: 29th
#2: 28th
#3: 21st
#4: DNS
#5: 38th
#6: 65th

2017:
#2: 18th
Worlds: 6th

It seems pretty dubious to claim that he's "stomping" all the full time DH'ers with those results. He had literally one good race on an enduro bike on an enduro trail that he didn't win (despite having just won the EWS overall and being the best EWS had to offer).

I don't know why were arguing about this. Downhill requires way higher levels of technique and finesse, while simultaneously requiring the rider to be extremely fit. Those skills transfer over well to enduro, hence there being a pretty easy transition for most DH'ers.

Also, Martin Maes is the only one I know of that tried his hand at DH.

He managed 78th and Fort William in 2016, and an actually impressive 22nd at Val Di Sole world champs in 2016.

Anyway, point of that incredibly long diatribe is that I'm not excited about enduro riders trying their hands at DH because they're not usually good at it, and you shouldn't be either. If I can't have fun with something, nobody else should get to.


Love Hill and what he has done on a bike but yeah you are right he wont be near a podium on a full on wc track today. Hill did and does remarkable things on a bike but racing a dh is very different from enduro, and I think Hill's area were he shines is being able to tackle new/hard terrain as he goes. His skill was always based on feel and being creative with lines but I dont think he is the best at pushing his absolute limit and hold it together.

And I agree that going from EWS wont be as easy as going from wc dh to EWS, wc dhillers still have a soild foundation of stamina training etc, what you will lack from enduro is just final gear of going all in on a run
 
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William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,926
671
In other news that enduro being boring, its monday and the first WC happens this coming weekend. Why isn't everybody there a week in advance getting pumped up and acclimated?! It's 2018 and I demand constant media presence and instant gratification.
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,516
4,767
Australia
Getting hyped, dude who's there sounds pumped, if he's pumped I'm pumped.
Looking at those rocks, anyone who crashes is gonna want to have blood donors ready. Looks like one of the nastiest tracks to have an off-line incident on...
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,696
13,050
Cackalacka du Nord
Looking at those rocks, anyone who crashes is gonna want to have blood donors ready. Looks like one of the nastiest tracks to have an off-line incident on...
i feared the carnage from dem rocks from the moment they started showing the track last year...gonna be interesting for sure.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey

Been wearing this for years now after not wearing any for a while (used to rock the 661 and later the Dianese) and even though it might not be as safe technically as an old school Dianese Gladiator suit im a little less worried about damaging my spine.

Took out the shoulder pads and it pretty much feels and wears like a tshirt.
Dont really understand why people wouldnt wear one unless its a super hot shuttle day maybe.
 
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mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,108
3,822
sw ontario canada

Been wearing this for years now after not wearing any for a while (used to rock the 661 and later the Dianese) and even though it might not be as safe technically as an old school Dianese Gladiator suit im a little less worried about damaging my spine.

Took out the shoulder pads and it pretty much feels and wears like a tshirt.
Dont really understand why people wouldnt wear one unless its a super hot shuttle day maybe.

I have one. When it's nice and cool out, ie mid 50's-mid 60's it rocks.
However, when it is warm / hot out, it is a bitch cause you are encased in insulating foam.
Those little vent holes don't work worth shit, especially when they are filled with and leaking sweat.
I find it is actually worse than a pressure suit because it so heavily insulates your core.
I found I had to take it off in hot weather, as I got a bit loopy with the excess heat.
Felt it was safer riding with a clear head as opposed to with a good heat fog going.

But then again, I do sweat when I see a picture of the sun, let alone the real thing :wtf:

Just my opinion, and yes, it is worth exactly what you paid for it. :D
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
566
412

Been wearing this for years now after not wearing any for a while (used to rock the 661 and later the Dianese) and even though it might not be as safe technically as an old school Dianese Gladiator suit im a little less worried about damaging my spine.

Took out the shoulder pads and it pretty much feels and wears like a tshirt.
Dont really understand why people wouldnt wear one unless its a super hot shuttle day maybe.
Quite hot here in the tropics. Some DH guys wear the chest/back protector over their jerseys similar to what ratboy wore at the wc races.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Love Hill and what he has done on a bike but yeah you are right he wont be near a podium on a full on wc track today. Hill did and does remarkable things on a bike but racing a dh is very different from enduro, and I think Hill's area were he shines is being able to tackle new/hard terrain as he goes. His skill was always based on feel and being creative with lines but I dont think he is the best at pushing his absolute limit and hold it together.

And I agree that going from EWS wont be as easy as going from wc dh to EWS, wc dhillers still have a soild foundation of stamina training etc, what you will lack from enduro is just final gear of going all in on a run
Part of the tracks have changed. Creative lines no longer win you races. I've seen a few WC race tracks where people tried a risky line and it sometimes came out slower than the plow line.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,387
826
Part of the tracks have changed. Creative lines no longer win you races. I've seen a few WC race tracks where people tried a risky line and it sometimes came out slower than the plow line.
I kind of agree with you for regular conditions, but then there was Gwin at MSA 2017 with crazy inside lines at several places.

I've actually watched the last 10-12 riders of that race 2-3 times last winter to satisfy my riding and WC craving. Such a good show!
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
I kind of agree with you for regular conditions, but then there was Gwin at MSA 2017 with crazy inside lines at several places.

I've actually watched the last 10-12 riders of that race 2-3 times last winter to satisfy my riding and WC craving. Such a good show!
Yeah I know there are exceptions but it's no longer so much about hiding your line choices and taking the risk. To me it's a bummer since I liked to ride like that instead of hardening my suspension as much as I can and training so winter so I can hold on to my bike while plowing through the rough and destroying my wheels ;)
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,513
19,525
Canaderp
I have one. When it's nice and cool out, ie mid 50's-mid 60's it rocks.
However, when it is warm / hot out, it is a bitch cause you are encased in insulating foam.
Those little vent holes don't work worth shit, especially when they are filled with and leaking sweat.
I find it is actually worse than a pressure suit because it so heavily insulates your core.
I found I had to take it off in hot weather, as I got a bit loopy with the excess heat.
Felt it was safer riding with a clear head as opposed to with a good heat fog going.

But then again, I do sweat when I see a picture of the sun, let alone the real thing :wtf:

Just my opinion, and yes, it is worth exactly what you paid for it. :D
Call me dumb, but I don't even bother with armor (other than knees pads and hydration pack (sometimes)) at our DH spots anymore. Like you said, its horrible when its hot out, especially when you have to stand in that gondola baking in the sun and then pedal across the entire hill.


And on the other hand, lets be honest, our DH trails are not any gnarlier than any of the trails that we ride any other day, on less capable trail bikes. If anything, they are safer with less random crud, trees, hikers, directional trails and are much wider. :busted:
 

chris_f

Monkey
Jun 20, 2007
390
409
I guess after two generations of Gamblers that, love them or hate them, at least stood out they just said "fuck it, let's make a 2013 Trek."