[thaflyinfatman]

So what exactly is this speed stack thing? Does this mean RS are changing over to a shimmed damper or what?

Also if anyone has any good pics of the internals of the motion control/speed stack stuff, that'd be much appreciated.

 

[Jeremy R]

Does this mean RS are changing over to a shimmed damper or what?
.

Yeah, they finally got tired of Jm's daily e-mails and decided to just give in.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

ahahahaha!

Anyone got any info?

 

[CBJ]

From Pinkbike

BlackBox SpeedStack

This high speed compression circuit is added to the Motion Control damper in the BoXXer World cup, to provide additional compression control which is desirable for long travel applications like downhill racing. The BlackBox SpeedStack changes the function of the FloodGate knob from a blow-off threshold adjuster to a high speed compression adjuster.

Boxxer WC:

Travel 203mm
Weight 2762g/6.09 lbs
Spring Solo Air
Adjust Air Pressure Via Single Schrader Valve
Damping Motion Contol
Adjust External rebound, External floodgate, External Compression and Internal High speed Shim stack
Lowers Magnesium, Disc and 20mm Only
Crown Forged 6061 T-6 Aluminum, Direct Mount Stem Compatible
Steerer Tube Butted Aluminum
Upper Tube 32mm 7000 series Aluminum, Low Friction Anodized
Colors Athena White

As I read it the FloodGate is now external high speed adjustment, so the Boxxer will have similar adjustment to both the new 888 and the Fox 40RC.

 

[scottishmark]

will the adjusters actually do anything this time round though?

 

[CBJ]

From the people I talked to in Whistler who had both WC and Team the answer is yes.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

So are they actually shim stacks or some other new wack damping method?

 

[vitox]

So are they actually shim stacks or some other new wack damping method?

think of it as pure 2.0 or TPC 3.0 if you will.

 

[motomike]

6.09 lbs.

 

[neversummersnow]

I want one. I wonder what availability is like on the damping system. I also wonder what the "Team" version will have...single sided coil with less adjustable damping?

 

[deweydude]

My question is
Will you be able to put the 06 stuff in the 05's????
I would love to just upgrade my 05 if it is possible and more cost effective than buying another new one

 

[Jm_]

One thing about the motion control; There's the "upper" swiss-cheese part, and then there's a "lower" piston part more like Pure or TPC, so irregardless of whatever variation or modification of this general theme the new boxxer is, the motion control system system still borrows some elements from TPC, so it's not completely shocking to know that there'd be a piston with shims in there.

On the other hand, it is pretty amazing to see them finally fall in line with technology that has been proven to work for many years and finally ditch ported dampers.

 

[bballe336]

Jm_ will you be buying one? or do you still hate RS?

 

[Jm_]

Jm_ will you be buying one? or do you still hate RS?

No, other companies have been making speed stack forks for years on end, so I'd trust that they have it dialed right. RS is slow, plus my marzocchi AM1 is the next step above the "speed stack", it's new bladder-damper technology more akin to the high end Mx stuff that exists today, so it's a good bit different. Plus, there's more to it than just a good damping system, progressiveness adjustment is pretty critical IMO, because riders that weigh the same amount push their equipment to different levels, making a progression adjustment very important for making a fork perform correctly, otherwise you have to buy softer or stiffer springs, which messes up your sag and makes the fork perform poorly.

 

[neversummersnow]

Talked to RS today, they said 06 stuff will to some extent fit, but it was still up in the air as to what will and wont....actually, they werent much help...

 

[ioscope]

irregardless

 

[thaflyinfatman]

think of it as pure 2.0 or TPC 3.0 if you will.

I haven't ever pulled apart a TPC damper (or a motion control one) or seen a decent diagram - could you explain how it works please?

 

[vitox]

I haven't ever pulled apart a TPC damper (or a motion control one) or seen a decent diagram - could you explain how it works please?

ill try but its pretty hard without a diagram, i think there used to be one on manitous site.


tpc means twin piston chamber, one piston is threaded to the top of the stanchion and is in a fixed position, the other is fixed to the lowers and slides up and down inside the stanchion.
now, the stanchion is full of oil and is sealed at the bottom end where the rebound piston moves, at the top of the rebound piston, inside the stanchion, is the rebound valve, this part works pretty much like a judy thru shaft or WB cartridge, nothing new here.
the clever part is with the compression cartridge, remember the compression valve is attached to a rod that threads to the top of the stanchion, also remember that when the fork compresses, part of the rebound piston shaft that normally resides between the stanchion and the lower leg, enters the stanchion that in turn doubles as an oil chamber.
this added volume of piston inside the stanchion makes the oil level rise, and, this forces oil past the compression valve.

thats pretty much all there is to it, its a very nice system and it can be made to perform in many different ways because you can separately tune the valves, and with tpc+ you can also tune in progressive damping, but thats another chapter.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

I think I gotcha, thanks.

 

[Repack]

TPC is nothing new people. IT IS AN EXACT COPY of the damping methods that have been used in resevoir shocks since they have existed. It is diplacement damping. By having the volume of the push rod reduce the volume in the oil chamber the speed of the oil moving through the compression damper is greatly reduced. When TPC first came out the ration was 3:1. This style of damper greatly reduces the need for a high-speed compression blow-off. Another way of thinking of a blow-off is that it is like an unrefined version of stable plarform. There is a spring holding the compression damper in place. When enough pressure if applied the damper is pushed out of the way allowing oil to flow freely through the fork and not damage the damper.
Do current Boxxers still have an internally adjustable blow-off? Its been a while since I've worked on one.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

TPC is nothing new people. IT IS AN EXACT COPY of the damping methods that have been used in resevoir shocks since they have existed. It is diplacement damping. By having the volume of the push rod reduce the volume in the oil chamber the speed of the oil moving through the compression damper is greatly reduced. When TPC first came out the ration was 3:1. This style of damper greatly reduces the need for a high-speed compression blow-off. Another way of thinking of a blow-off is that it is like an unrefined version of stable plarform. There is a spring holding the compression damper in place. When enough pressure if applied the damper is pushed out of the way allowing oil to flow freely through the fork and not damage the damper.
Do current Boxxers still have an internally adjustable blow-off? Its been a while since I've worked on one.

Yeah the current boxxers still have the same internally adjustable blowoff.

 

[Rik]

I think the most important part of this new technology is the fact that the shim stack is designed to be rebuilt and rearranged with ease. RS will be providing tech sheets showing how to do it, and also giving examples of different shim arrangements to suit different riding.
Apparently it'll be a quick job to do too, something you might even be able to do at a race meet without too much hassle.

 

[vitox]

I think the most important part of this new technology is the fact that the shim stack is designed to be rebuilt and rearranged with ease. RS will be providing tech sheets showing how to do it, and also giving examples of different shim arrangements to suit different riding.
Apparently it'll be a quick job to do too, something you might even be able to do at a race meet without too much hassle.

well on a tpc damper it isnt too difficult either, only problem is that theres a lot of plastic to round out if you do it a lot, but its very easy to access the compression shims.

 

[motomike]

soooo, are all of these changes a step in the right direction for the new Boxxer? Yes, they changed alot, but do you think it will be better?

 

[vitox]

soooo, are all of these changes a step in the right direction for the new Boxxer? Yes, they changed alot, but do you think it will be better?

good question

 

[CBJ]

Well the people who has ridden the Pike should know something about it - isn't it the same dampning as the Boxxer will get? Do the dails do more on the Pike than on the Boxxer?

 

[dropmachine]

The Pike was a huge step in the right direction for RS. In the review I'm writing up on it, the biggest compliment I can pay the fork is that it feels nothing like a typical Rock SHox fork. Its smooth, stiff, and the damping doesn't do anything aggrivating or unwanted. The dials work, and although it might be a little more progressive then some like, the fork feels mint.

This could be a big step for RS and getting back in the game. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new Boxxers work.

 

[WheelieMan]

The Pike was a huge step in the right direction for RS. In the review I'm writing up on it, the biggest compliment I can pay the fork is that it feels nothing like a typical Rock SHox fork. Its smooth, stiff, and the damping doesn't do anything aggrivating or unwanted. The dials work, and although it might be a little more progressive then some like, the fork feels mint.

This could be a big step for RS and getting back in the game. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new Boxxers work.

Progressive? I thought people were complaining how linear the Pikes are. Or maybe it was just JM rambling about how the Pike should have more progressivity adjustment...

 

[dante]

Progressive? I thought people were complaining how linear the Pikes are. Or maybe it was just JM rambling about how the Pike should have more progressivity adjustment...

JM ramble on about a RS product? no, couldn't be...

 

[dropmachine]

Progressive? I thought people were complaining how linear the Pikes are. Or maybe it was just JM rambling about how the Pike should have more progressivity adjustment...

I find mine ramps up pretty decently. Its definately harder to get through all the travel compared to the Fox Vanillas.

 

[CBJ]

Talked to RS today, they said 06 stuff will to some extent fit, but it was still up in the air as to what will and wont....actually, they werent much help...

I talked to RS techs today and was told that you upgrade your 05 Boxxer with 06 internals but only to the coil version as they use the same legs for 06.

 

[descender]

I find mine ramps up pretty decently. Its definately harder to get through all the travel compared to the Fox Vanillas.

I agree also. I can't get full travel on my pike, yet. Overall it is a nice fork. Looking forward to the new boxxers.

 

[deweydude]

I talked to RS techs today and was told that you upgrade your 05 Boxxer with 06 internals but only to the coil version as they use the same legs for 06.

RS told me the 06 stuff WOULD NOT WORK in the 05's
I am ordering a Mojo Boxcart cartridge for my 05 should be very nice, I'll let you guys know after it is in and have ridden it

 

[sn0wboarder]

I'm sure its alittle early to ask but does anyone know how much the Boxxer air will sell for?