[General Lee]

Soooo, anyone have any ride time on the new ones? I heard mixed reviews about their air forks in the past, and from what I can tell Gracia and the other factory guys opted for the coil version in the past.

Holding out for a new Boxxer, but who knows how that will pan out. I've only ever used RS forks but might make a switch if they don't come through; but it certainly won't be to Fox.


*gotta say I get a kick out of how RS and Marz choose to price their forks. RS wants $1600 for an air fork and $1200 for a coil, and Marz wants $1600 for coil and $1200 for air.

 

[IH8Rice]

i love my '08 ATA. from what ive seen, i dont think they changed anything performance wise for '09....i think.
its super plush and tracks great. there are some weird nuances about letting air out of the cartridges, but nothing to sway me away from liking it.

there was issues with the PAR cartridge, but they fixed that issue mid-way through last year. i had to send mine in 3 times before they put the new cartridge in, but their CS has been stellar. the 3 year warranty is nice too.

 

[bullcrew]

Yeah the 09 is sick, stupid smooth outa the box o ring issue has been worked out and the bushings have been changed.
I had 2 888 ata's last season at the begining of 08 and I sold them not that they were bad but I was going through a fork whoring stage then as well. I had a good amount of ride time on those and NO issues this 09 I have now is incredible. Its damping is great. Id say side by side its smoother than the 08s were, they refined it for 09 and worked out all the little inconsistencies.
No sticchion, super small bump compliance linear and progressive at end or dial air preload down a bit and go linear. Put more air in and be progressive right off the bat. (this is true of 08 and 09)

 

[Inclag]

Yeah the 09 is sick, stupid smooth outa the box o ring issue has been worked out and the bushings have been changed.
I had 2 888 ata's last season at the begining of 08 and I sold them not that they were bad but I was going through a fork whoring stage then as well. I had a good amount of ride time on those and NO issues this 09 I have now is incredible. Its damping is great. Id say side by side its smoother than the 08s were, they refined it for 09 and worked out all the little inconsistencies.
No sticchion, super small bump compliance linear and progressive at end or dial air preload down a bit and go linear. Put more air in and be progressive right off the bat. (this is true of 08 and 09)

So what's refined???

 

[IH8Rice]

So what's refined???

the little bit of slop in the bushings and of course the PAR issue

 

[bullcrew]

the little bit of slop in the bushings and of course the PAR issue

thanks!

They went throught the whole early 08 chambers and isolated the issues inside the par to the o-rings and changed them out (at a huge $ loss) and then like ih8rice said the bushings as well. Instead of being to loose like early 08 or too tight like pre 08 they are pretty neutral and ride real close to a broke in set would feel.

I liked my 08s I had early and mid 08 atas and they were both good but slop on the early ones is a fact on most of the stuff.

Aside of these items the fork is dialed its just too bad they had such a growing pain over such a small peice!

In original post it is pretty funny that Rockshox and MArz are priced opposite on the air coil options!

 

[Mike Buell]

Yeah the 09 is sick, stupid smooth outa the box o ring issue has been worked out and the bushings have been changed.
I had 2 888 ata's last season at the begining of 08 and I sold them not that they were bad but I was going through a fork whoring stage then as well. I had a good amount of ride time on those and NO issues this 09 I have now is incredible. Its damping is great. Id say side by side its smoother than the 08s were, they refined it for 09 and worked out all the little inconsistencies.
No sticchion, super small bump compliance linear and progressive at end or dial air preload down a bit and go linear. Put more air in and be progressive right off the bat. (this is true of 08 and 09)

I'm glad they've sorted these out, cause everything you state here is exactly the opposite of the 07 I had a few years back. I used to be a huge 888 fan, and now I'm very weary.

 

[Inclag]

thanks!

They went throught the whole early 08 chambers and isolated the issues inside the par to the o-rings and changed them out (at a huge $ loss) and then like ih8rice said the bushings as well. Instead of being to loose like early 08 or too tight like pre 08 they are pretty neutral and ride real close to a broke in set would feel.

I liked my 08s I had early and mid 08 atas and they were both good but slop on the early ones is a fact on most of the stuff.

Aside of these items the fork is dialed its just too bad they had such a growing pain over such a small peice!

In original post it is pretty funny that Rockshox and MArz are priced opposite on the air coil options!

So any issues with the 08 forks were solely stiction related?

Did they completely redesign the this o-ring issue or just replace them? I can't see how replacing them is a huge loss of money since o-rings in quantity cost a fraction of a cent.

 

[IH8Rice]

I'm glad they've sorted these out, cause everything you state here is exactly the opposite of the 07 I had a few years back. I used to be a huge 888 fan, and now I'm very weary.

im still weary myself...even after talking to everyone at Marz. i was hesitant about getting a air DH fork before i got this, but i decided to because of weight. i never use the ATA either.
until Foes comes out with their new DH fork, i wont buy another air fork....even tho Marz has fixed their issues mid 2008 when they finally got mine fixed.

So any issues with the 08 forks were solely stiction related?

Did they completely redesign the this o-ring issue or just replace them? I can't see how replacing them is a huge loss of money since o-rings in quantity cost a fraction of a cent.

not stiction related. it was bushing and PAR problems really. they had tolerance issues with the cartridges so they didnt really have to redesign the whole system.
the tolerance was off causing air to leak into the next chamber and causing the fork to be stuck down it its travel.

 

[bullcrew]

I dont know the time involved, the bad rep, the time to repair forks on top of daily duties the 1000's of them out there. Time for people to go figure out the issues, whats the cause and then tolerances and have a bushing ad o-rings suited for the task. Yeah O-rings dont cost alot but this all put together does...

Not too mention the bad rep people have towards marz like the cautiousness stated above, not on par for marz quality but things happen.
Ill rock the 2010 888 no question even first run!

A brand new fork has a issue the tech has time involved to break it down and find the issue then find the cause. Then the engineer has to sit down and they go over it to resolve it as well as try and see if theres any other potential issues while they are in there that could arise later. Now they have to see if they are going to have any other issues with the repair differences. Its a first run thing, theres usually too many variables and we dont ride like the mega pros as well as alot of us ride urban and huck alot so we have a tendancy to put these through the ringer in ways not thought of.
Im just glad they are there to hear the issues and make the changes mid year instead of replace it with a different fork and move on.

 

[Kanye West]

Lee - Pop out the PAR anyway, and I had really good luck running Maxima 10w or Motorex 7.5w (a bit heavier) in the damper side with 0-3 clicks of compression.

They made the cartridge a bit longer for '08 so it has an entirely different feel/rampup than the '07 ATA with the PAR left in.

Damn good forks IMO. As burly as a 40 but so simple and tunable, but more reliable than a Boxxer for the most part (especially with seals). The latest run of forks should be good as far as the bushings go. Haven't seen any of the '09's with problems yet.

 

[Kanye West]

The pricing really is absurd on the Boxxer WC's if you think about how much that air side costs them to make vs. a spring....

The price difference between the steel coil/air and the Ti coil version of Marz is pretty ridculous too.

 

[Tmeyer]

Lee Trumpore on a Marz??? Never thought I'd see the day.

See you at the Open!!! Assume you're getting a condo again?

 

[sriracha]

for the record, i have a 2007 66slata. i just rebuilt it last week and rode it all weekend, on a full variety of terrain. thanks to a liberal amount of slick honey on the seals, the fork feels great. small bump sensitivity is excellent. it feels pretty damn smooth...rivaling the 2007 coil 66.

granted, it took much longer to break in, than a coil...and had some teething issues. but, my long term impression of the 07 66slata fork is very positive.

 

[sriracha]

They made the cartridge a bit longer for '08 so it has an entirely different feel/rampup than the '07 ATA with the PAR left in.

in what way does the ramp up feel different? is the '08 more linear feeling, with the larger cartridge?

that would be nice, as the '07 66ata ramps up quick compared to a 888ata. it took some trial and error to make the 07 66ata feel more linear, for me.

 

[Kanye West]

Yup, a lot more linear and less "abrupt" of a ramp-up. That said, I still got rid of the PAR in all the ATA forks I owned (4 of them, 66/888 of both 2007 and 2008).

Big improvement on the '07 66 in particular...

 

[Eastern States Cup]

Someone I know quite well is riding a 09 888 wc this season. After talking with a few people at marz including the cs guys, there is no way he would be riding the 888ATA. He's going to suffer with the extra weight but will be able to set it and go out and race over 20 races this season without a worry. The only forks we ever used have been Marz until last year when he had to run rs. That most likely won't happen again, especially with the new fork they are working on. Anyway CS at marz is great.

But Lee on a Marzocchi

 

[Kanye West]

The ATA is great if you just pop it apart and butter it up every so often. Takes even less time than the Boxxer WC air side does since you don't have to remove the stanchion (just footnut and top cap). Just like any air fork...

 

[sriracha]

interesting. do you have a link to said DIY PAR removal procedure?

when i had the fork apart, i could definitely feel the abrupt PAR transition, compressing the cartridge. but, when it's all assembled, it's not as noticeable.

i'm currently running 20psi in the PAR. i was under the impression that something could get damaged at 0psi, but would running 0 psi give similar results to removing the PAR? (enough to give me a preview?)

 

[Kanye West]

No, if you run it collapsed the whole time you'll damage it. You want the PAR pressure to be a little bit above that of the main air, never any less.

 

[bpatterson6]

I'm glad they've sorted these out, cause everything you state here is exactly the opposite of the 07 I had a few years back. I used to be a huge 888 fan, and now I'm very weary.

I hear ya man. Remember when we rebuilt mine at Angel fire in '07?

 

[Kanye West]

Dude it's a canister with some o-rings. If you do it right, they're pretty impossible to mess up. The people who I've seen who have had problems with the air are the same ones who expect it to work the same and be as reliable as a coil fork (which means, dump in some oil, and open it up again a year later).

 

[SteezyWeezy]

so from what i understand from this thread is that the par wasn't as much of an issue in 08, but still was better without it? how hard is it to remove the par in the 08's?

 

[IH8Rice]

so from what i understand from this thread is that the par wasn't as much of an issue in 08, but still was better without it? how hard is it to remove the par in the 08's?

it was a issue in '08. it stopped being a issue towards the middle-end of the year

 

[tatankainlondon]

Someone I know quite well is riding a 09 888 wc this season. After talking with a few people at marz including the cs guys, there is no way he would be riding the 888ATA.

Hi
Could you elaborate on this one a bit more? Thanks

 

[Eastern States Cup]

no.

But his final decision was a used 08 Boxxer. Lee held out for his Boxxer also. I'm sure they're both happy with their decisions.

 

[IH8Rice]

Hi
Could you elaborate on this one a bit more? Thanks

i have the new '09 888 ATA and it feels just as good as the '08's. they thankfully fixed the issue with their bushing and it finally feels legit w/ nearly zero bushing flex.
unfortunately it took a year into a model run for them to figure it out.

their CS is bar far the best ive dealt with in any biz

 

[tatankainlondon]

i have the new '09 888 ATA and it feels just as good as the '08's. they thankfully fixed the issue with their bushing and it finally feels legit w/ nearly zero bushing flex.
unfortunately it took a year into a model run for them to figure it out.

their CS is bar far the best ive dealt with in any biz

Thanks for that. The reason I bumped up this thread was that I am getting 09 Zocchi 888 ATA forks mid this week.

 

[IH8Rice]

Thanks for that. The reason I bumped up this thread was that I am getting 09 Zocchi 888 ATA forks mid this week.

i think i mentioned it in this thread, but dont go by their manual's recommended pressures for the ATA and PAR.
im 225lbs with gear and im running 90 in the top and 125 in the bottom...its a bit soft, but it feels great

 

[tatankainlondon]

i think i mentioned it in this thread, but dont go by their manual's recommended pressures for the ATA and PAR.
im 225lbs with gear and im running 90 in the top and 125 in the bottom...its a bit soft, but it feels great

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated.

 

[Dogboy]

...its a bit soft, but it feels great

That's what she said.

 

[Eastern States Cup]

forks




brawhhahahaha

Oh and rice guy have you dealt with them since they were sold to Tenneco ?? Their past awsome CS has been put under a budget crunch and you can guess the rest.

 

[IH8Rice]

Oh and rice guy have you dealt with them since they were sold to Tenneco ?? Their past awsome CS has been put under a budget crunch and you can guess the rest.

sure have, Gideon and Ronnie both killed it for me just this past week.

pm sent

 

[gemini2k]

Hi
Could you elaborate on this one a bit more? Thanks

Hacktastic, another friend and I spent some time swapping between coil and air springs on our 08-09 888's. We all agreed the coil felt significantly better, period. Weight and reliability issues aren't worth it. Even with proper maintenance the ata gets stuck down once and a while. It is also gonna feel a tad be sticker, and the way it ramps up is different and worse than a coil.

 

[IH8Rice]

Even with proper maintenance the ata gets stuck down once and a while. It is also gonna feel a tad be sticker, and the way it ramps up is different and worse than a coil.

besides for the ATA issue that was fixed, no one i know has ever had their fork stick down. and maybe yours has a issue, but mine feels like butter the whole way through it's stroke.

 

[tatankainlondon]

They should be with me tomorrow

 

[gemini2k]

besides for the ATA issue that was fixed, no one i know has ever had their fork stick down. and maybe yours has a issue, but mine feels like butter the whole way through it's stroke.

No, there was no 'issues' with the fork per say. I saw multiple air carts get stuck down. Not completely, they'd just get some air trapped behind the piston and lose some of their travel (anywhere from 1-4 inches). Not a big deal, just had to pull it apart. And its not a matter of it feeling buttery or not, it's just that it feels worse than coil. Still good, still acceptable, just not as good. Trust me, these carts were tuned to perfection and felt as good as they could, we (well, Hacktastic really) knew what we were doing. Truth be told the normal rider wouldn't notice or care. I bet our ata carts felt better than most people's coils actual, ha ha.

 

[IH8Rice]

that actually is the issue with the fork. the O-ring goes bad causing the chambers to bleed into each other and making for fork stick down in its travel. there is a fix to the problem. i had this happen to mine and they were able to get it fixed asap.

how did you "tune" your cartridge btw??

 

[gemini2k]

that actually is the issue with the fork. the O-ring goes bad causing the chambers to bleed into each other and making for fork stick down in its travel. there is a fix to the problem. i had this happen to mine and they were able to get it fixed asap.

how did you "tune" your cartridge btw??

Tune is probably a poor word to choose. More like...."make less sticky". Ask Hacktastic about it.

 

[Kanye West]

A 55 gallon barrel of looooove butta....sure fire way to get a party started.