10 Speed?

Manifesto · Sep 10, 2011

so you buy 10speed because its the 'new' thing, but you take off four of the gears?

you do realise 10speed is chinsy as ****, why not go to 8speed and rep it hardcore

Manifesto · Sep 10, 2011

93dls said:
Did you not read what i wrote? I figure 9 speed will be dead in a few years and i need to update my drivetrain anyway. You do realize 10 speed cassettes and 9 speed are different as 10 speed rings are closer spaced and are suggested to shift better.

firstly, let me get this off of my chest, you're an idiot. Secondly, the 10 speed drivetrain just won't have the durabillity that 8/9 speed does.
Why would Sram drop 9 speed? 8 speed has been going for over 10 years and it's still in production, they're not just going to drop it. Besides, if you actually ride your bike, that fancy 10 speed derailleur wont last you till the end of the season.

Manifesto · Sep 10, 2011

honestly, who shovels out the cash for 10 speed and then takes 4 gears out and calls it a day.

buckoW · Sep 10, 2011

I rode 10speed all last year. I am so happy to be back on 9sp XO!

Manifesto · Sep 10, 2011

93dls said:
thanks pinkbike

edit: You did have a little useful information. Why would durability be any worse than 9 speed the derailleurs are pretty similar?

The same reason why it apparently shifts better. Everything has been accomodated to fit a smaller chain, the chains just cant hold up. The links were so loose on the second lap down garbo that I had to go buy another chain.

Guess what happened later, my derailleur spring freakin went retarded after a tap by a little branch that it flew into my wheel and blew everything up.

Dear 10 speed,
go suck a fat dong

BikeMike · Sep 10, 2011

As more gears get added in the same space, everything gets narrower, including the spacing between the gears. When there is less space between the gears, the shifting more sensitive to being less-than-perfectly aligned/adjusted. Personally, I don't even like 10 speed on road bikes.

yuroshek · Sep 10, 2011

I run 10sp chain on my 9sp cassette... Its shifts oh so smoothly!

chup29 · Sep 10, 2011

i have 10 speed on my m9 and on my covert. I love it - running 23-11t cassette and a 36t up front with x9 shifter and derailler on my dh bike and a 36-11 cassette with a 34t up front with xtr shifter and xt derailler on my all mountain bike. People complaining about the lack of durability are idiots. I can say that i have never had any sort of issue with my chain being loose after a whole summer of use - the only issue i had was that i freewheeled down a slope and crankcased on my bash guard then smacked my derailler and tried to reweld the cage back together with jb weld and plumbers putty. Neither one really worked so i just kept riding it with a trashed cage and lower pulley - still shifted fine, eventually replaced the derailler 9 months after i first bought it... Coming off 9 speed i will say that its harder to fine tune so it shifts perfectly, but all you fancy armchair mechanics know how to tune a derailler right? i mean, it comes with instructions...

chillindrdude · Sep 10, 2011

nothing conceptually wrong with 10spd imo. for the all mtn rider, it allows a clean 1x10 setup due to the wider gearing range. a road/dh cassette can allow for closer gearing ratios as well as faster/cleaner shifts due to closer ramps.

would think longitudinal breakage of a 10 spd chain is comparable to a 9speed counterpart. i think sideloading /torquing the chain if you are running less than optimal chainline or extremes of gearing may make a 10spd chain modestly weaker than a 9speed counterpart. all i'm saying is you may have to pay alittle closer attention to setup during installation and setup. but if done correctly, 10spd should perform on par with 9spd. for fine tuning, the barrel adjusters on the shifters work wonders....

i'm going 1x10 on my AM/enduro build and will likely go 1x10 on my dh bike as well for 2012

epic · Sep 10, 2011

All the 10spd Shimano I have tried has been flawless. I was pretty skeptical, but I'm glad to be wrong. I am still running 9-spd because mine isn't broken yet, but I'll be happy to go 10.

IH8Rice · Sep 10, 2011

epic said:
All the 10spd Shimano and SRAM I have tried has been flawless. I was pretty skeptical, but I'm glad to be wrong. I am still running 9-spd because mine isn't broken yet, but I'll be happy to go 10.

2nded.

sethimus · Sep 10, 2011

Manifesto said:
The same reason why it apparently shifts better. Everything has been accomodated to fit a smaller chain, the chains just cant hold up. The links were so loose on the second lap down garbo that I had to go buy another chain.

Guess what happened later, my derailleur spring freakin went retarded after a tap by a little branch that it flew into my wheel and blew everything up.

Dear 10 speed,
go suck a fat dong

so stuff get destroyed because you can't ride clean? maybe you're the idiot? fyi, 1 season in whistler, 1 kmc10sl chain on a full saint kit. 0 problems.

the xt 10speed 11-36 setup i'm running on my am bike has been flawless for the whole season so far...

Matchew · Sep 10, 2011

BikeMike said:
As more gears get added in the same space, everything gets narrower, including the spacing between the gears. When there is less space between the gears, the shifting more sensitive to being less-than-perfectly aligned/adjusted. Personally, I don't even like 10 speed on road bikes.

This. My concern with 10 speed for the average rider is that once the derailleur or hanger becomes slightly tweaked or out of adjustment it can become very finicky. I personally prefer the clunkier feel of the 9 speed as the shifters pull more cable per gear and leave more room for wear and damage.

w00dy · Sep 10, 2011

The only way 9 speed will be phased out is if demand for it drops. People who blindly buy into new trends give companies the motivation to keep pushing new and worse standards on the consuming public. Tighter gear spacing = weaker chains, weaker cogs, less room for error in derailleur adjustment and function, and greater sensitivity to cable wear. I still run 8 speed on every bike I own, including the road bike. Because it's cheaper, it runs better, and it lasts longer. I'm not a luddite, I just like to use the products which work best. I encourage you to do the same.

Edit:

EVIL JN · Sep 10, 2011

A little of topic but is anyone else having there sram deraillieurs developing play quite fast in the main pivot that bolts to the hanger and play in general through out the mech?

My last x9 didnt survive a full season, no big strikes or anything, it still shifted fairly good but shouldnt a mech survive a full season from normal riding?

Transcend · Sep 10, 2011

93dls said:
Did you not read what i wrote? I figure 9 speed will be dead in a few years and i need to update my drivetrain anyway.You do realize 10 speed cassettes and 9 speed are different as 10 speed rings are closer spaced and are suggested to shift better.

How long do you keep your drivetrain for???

Biffff · Sep 10, 2011

Running shimano 1x10 on my AM/FR/XC bike and can't say enough good about it! I wouldn't hesitate to run 1x10 on my DH, and I currently have XO 9speed with a dura ace cassette and X9 sl chain......as good as 9 speed gets.

no skid marks · Sep 10, 2011

w00dy said:
The only way 9 speed will be phased out is if demand for it drops. People who blindly buy into new trends give companies the motivation to keep pushing new and worse standards on the consuming public. Tighter gear spacing = weaker chains, weaker cogs, less room for error in derailleur adjustment and function, and greater sensitivity to cable wear. I still run 8 speed on every bike I own, including the road bike. Because it's cheaper, it runs better, and it lasts longer. I'm not a luddite, I just like to use the products which work best. I encourage you to do the same.

Agreed, who the f$ck wants a frail fiddly drivetrain. Make it more robust, not weaker FFS!
Glad ten speeds working for people, but it won't be for those that don't bother cleaning, and fiddling with their bike all the time. and don't bother with I touched my 10 s bike once in blah blah, Anyone that works on bikes will know 9 speed was worse then 8 speed and so on.
I'm sticking with 8, accept for my gearboxed Zerode(8 also)that I pretty much never have to touch.
YOU'RE BEING PLAYED PEOPLE.
Shimano wouldn't be selling ten speed if DH was their main market.
I also prefer chunkier shifts of 8 speed. It's a DH bike, not something in a girls make up bag.
10 speeds gear range is great for trail bikes, but it could be made in 9 speed.

descente · Sep 10, 2011

Ive got an x9 kit in 8 speed and 9 speed sitting in my garage.
My new dh bike is coming with an Xo 10 speed kit...
Guess which one is going to end up on the new dh bike lol

The 10 speed stuff is definitely more finicky to setup, but as long as it works its pretty awesome.

IH8Rice · Sep 10, 2011

i dont know why some are thinking 10 speed is harder to setup. i/we have zero issues setting up any of the shimano and or sram 10 speed stuff.

HAB · Sep 10, 2011

IH8Rice said:
i dont know why some are thinking 10 speed is harder to setup. i/we have zero issues setting up any of the shimano and or sram 10 speed stuff.

I think maybe if you don't know what you're doing that well it's a little harder but I've never had a problem with it. Then again, I worked in a shop all through high school and most of college so I've had some practice.

sethimus · Sep 11, 2011

last time i checked, at least shimano ships a good manual with its stuff, pretty easy if you can follow instructions...

no skid marks · Sep 11, 2011

10 speed will shift easier, but with tighter tolerances will be more susceptible to poor shifting if it gets a bump, or has crap on the cables. I'd rather my drivetrain was as tough as the rest of my bike. I don't want to have to fiddle with gear set up ever, let alone during a days riding. If you like it or have dainty lil girls hands then go right ahead, whatever works for you. I'm just banging my drum hoping industry folk are listening and may put some focus into designing a nice shifting 6 speed set up with chunky shifts for DH.

TheMontashu · Sep 11, 2011

IH8Rice said:
2nded.

Not necessarily a 10 speed issue, but the angle that the cable comes into the X9 and X0's some of my friends have been finding the cables snap and fray allot, I've only had it happen once, but they say they are replacing cables every couple weeks.

still love my 10 speed x9 though

manhattanprjkt83 · Sep 11, 2011

w00dy said:
I still run 8 speed on every bike I own

An 8 spd single speed belt drive is a pretty wild setup Dave, gotta see that

I am really on the fence about the 10 spd, I really never break chains and 9 spd holds up great for me so no reason to switch yet. Especially on the dh bike which I sometimes have setup as a single speed.

I do see a tremendous advantage w/ 10spd for my trail bike though, the gear ratios are fantastic and allow me to axe the front derailleur. Clean bars are always nice.

frorider · Sep 11, 2011

Running 1x10 XT on my canfield hardtail. Like the 1:1 cable ratio, which gives it the shifting feel of SRAM but with the durability and low profile of shadow shimano.

Have not tried the lockable XTR rear der but from all reports it does minimize chain slap.

No issues at all with setup and durability with the 10 spd.

DhDork · Sep 11, 2011

TheMontashu said:
Not necessarily a 10 speed issue, but the angle that the cable comes into the X9 and X0's some of my friends have been finding the cables snap and fray allot, I've only had it happen once, but they say they are replacing cables every couple weeks.

still love my 10 speed x9 though

Wrenching in shops the last 6+ years, the only thing I've found that causes that is improper installation of the cable the first time around. The more times you tighten down that pinch bolt on the cable, the more it is damaged, and the more likely it is to fray. A good wrench can tighten that bolt ONCE and have the derailleur running perfect with a 1/2 or twist or 2 with the barrel adjuster. I run my cables until the housing is damaged (1-2 months at most with the protruding rocks in the area), and my cables on my X9's are never frayed on the ends.

Personally, I think 10sp is great for smoother, cleaner, faster shifts. I have never had a problem setting them up, in fact, I think it is easier to dial in than a cheap 8sp product. For AM setups, the 1x10 is great. No overlap in gearing.

Oh, and BTW, ( I could be wrong here ) the only difference between 9sp and 10sp chains is the width of the pin. There's only a few things that should make a chain worthless after a few runs at whistler, one is not lubing it often enough. That causes your pins to wear out faster, and the stretch to become that much more dramatic in a short time. Customers come back after 5-6 months on a chain, riding it 1-2 a week, and its already smoked. But its bone dry, and still has the stock wax on it. Either that or improper adjustment or a worn out cassette or chainrings.

IH8Rice · Sep 11, 2011

TheMontashu said:
Not necessarily a 10 speed issue, but the angle that the cable comes into the X9 and X0's some of my friends have been finding the cables snap and fray allot,

you mean straight in? i dont know how much more direct you can get it. its a better cable routing design then Shimano

w00dy · Sep 11, 2011

manhattanprjkt83 said:
An 8 spd single speed belt drive is a pretty wild setup Dave, gotta see that

I am really on the fence about the 10 spd, I really never break chains and 9 spd holds up great for me so no reason to switch yet. Especially on the dh bike which I sometimes have setup as a single speed.

I do see a tremendous advantage w/ 10spd for my trail bike though, the gear ratios are fantastic and allow me to axe the front derailleur. Clean bars are always nice.

Let me revise that. Every bike that is not single speed has 8 speeds.

Another point, I'm sure 10 speed stuff is easy to set up. Everything runs well new, but it's only new once and not for very long.

TheMontashu · Sep 12, 2011

DhDork said:
Wrenching in shops the last 6+ years, the only thing I've found that causes that is improper installation of the cable the first time around. The more times you tighten down that pinch bolt on the cable, the more it is damaged, and the more likely it is to fray. A good wrench can tighten that bolt ONCE and have the derailleur running perfect with a 1/2 or twist or 2 with the barrel adjuster. I run my cables until the housing is damaged (1-2 months at most with the protruding rocks in the area), and my cables on my X9's are never frayed on the ends.

Personally, I think 10sp is great for smoother, cleaner, faster shifts. I have never had a problem setting them up, in fact, I think it is easier to dial in than a cheap 8sp product. For AM setups, the 1x10 is great. No overlap in gearing.

Oh, and BTW, ( I could be wrong here ) the only difference between 9sp and 10sp chains is the width of the pin. There's only a few things that should make a chain worthless after a few runs at whistler, one is not lubing it often enough. That causes your pins to wear out faster, and the stretch to become that much more dramatic in a short time. Customers come back after 5-6 months on a chain, riding it 1-2 a week, and its already smoked. But its bone dry, and still has the stock wax on it. Either that or improper adjustment or a worn out cassette or chainrings.

They fray on the part of the derailer that turns the cable around to face the bolt, not on the bolt

roel_koel · Sep 12, 2011

my riding buddy initially raved about using 10 speed SRAM (X-9) on his all-mtn with the big 11-36T cassette

8 months in? four chains snapped, three derailleurs snapped

the last derailleur snapped on a mild XC ride...

he's gone back to 9 speed SRAM X-9, which he never had any issues with

the 10 speed systems were installed by a competent, professional mechanic with experience of all gear systems including 10 speed mtn / road and 11 speed road

each SRAM chain snapped its side plates

each of the three broken X-9 derailleurs suffered a broken pulley cage spring (where the cage pivots against the body)

maybe SRAM's 10 speed components are just not made as well (the shifters in particular look / feel sh*t compared to my 9 speed X-9)?

or its just more vulnerable from everything being a narrower gauge to squeeze the extra cog in the rear?

IH8Rice · Sep 12, 2011

roel_koel said:
maybe SRAM's 10 speed components are just not made as well (the shifters in particular look / feel sh*t compared to my 9 speed X-9)?

or its just more vulnerable from everything being a narrower gauge to squeeze the extra cog in the rear?

sounds like user error to me. ive yet to come across anyone who has broken a derailleur and or chain on 10spd products...and ive sold 10 speed stuff to some hacks

manhattanprjkt83 · Sep 12, 2011

roel_koel said:
three derailleurs snapped

honestly this sounds like the guy cant shift to save his life...10spd should have nothing to do with snapping of derailleurs...

SkullCrack · Sep 12, 2011

I don't have a dog in this fight, since my bikes are all 9 speed (or less), but FWIW BikeRumor has been doing some 9sp vs. 10sp drivetrain testing:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/03/16/bikerumor-chain-challenge-the-definitive-9-vs-10-speed-mtb-chain-wear-test/#more-29007

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/04/13/bikerumor-chain-challenge-episode-2-rider-bios-bike-checks-and-starting-measures/

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/06/14/bikerumor-chainwear-challenge-miles-are-finally-starting-to-come-in/

Some 10sp chain wear test results:
http://www.cantitoeroad.com/connex

6thElement · Sep 12, 2011

^^ Why does that last link send me to the FBI's most wanted page??

IH8Rice · Sep 12, 2011

6thElement said:
^^ Why does that last link send me to the FBI's most wanted page??

lol wut?

10 Speed?

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