[Ridemonkey]

My Psylo race is crapping out. I have been looking at lightweight alternatives like the Marzocchi Marathon but am hesitant to get another air fork.

Can anyone suggest a 100mm coil spring fork that is reasonably light?

 

[Fast&Smooth]

look into manitou. Maybe get this: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product.asp?number=17116
if your worried, get 2, cant loose at that rpice.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Wow thats cheap. I could use one of them for a back up.

Aren't there any coil forks at 100mm that break the 3.5 pound barrier?

 

[Heidi]

I cringe at recommending the Marathon. Derek had big problems with his - it has been rebuilt 3 times. Mine isn't too much better. It fills with oil and gets real stiff every other month. It has been rebuilt once already. Now it makes a loud SNAP sound when I go off anything higher than 4"...no matter how much air I have in it. I need a new fork.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Originally posted by Heidi
I cringe at recommending the Marathon. Derek had big problems with his - it has been rebuilt 3 times. Mine isn't too much better. It fills with oil and gets real stiff every other month. It has been rebuilt once already. Now it makes a loud SNAP sound when I go off anything higher than 4"...no matter how much air I have in it. I need a new fork.

Yeah bummer. Fox has a new superlight air fork coming out but its 80mm only. The Fox Float is nice but at 4 pounds I might as well get a coil spring Psylo SL. I know Fox has new forks coming out, and Marzocchi has a coil version of the Marathon. I'll have to check those out.

 

[The Toninator]

we should start a poll about Air forks. maybe try to compile some real data because i've had problems with my air for too. I'd switch to coils (for racing) but:
their heavy
and they’re just not as plush.

 

[spincrazy]

Originally posted by The Toninator
.......and they’re just not as plush.

I BEG TO DIFFER. GREATLY!

Rm, I rode a Manitou Black Super Air and would highly recommend it as an air fork option. I don't know what the weight is, but with TPC and all it really performed well. Look into it.

BTW, the Marathons have been updated for 2003, so the probs that Heidi and Derek are having might be gone. Might.

 

[The Toninator]

Originally posted by spincrazy


I BEG TO DIFFER. GREATLY!

Rm, I rode a Manitou Black Super Air and would highly recommend it as an air fork option. I don't know what the weight is, but with TPC and all it really performed well. Look into it.

BTW, the Marathons have been updated for 2003, so the probs that Heidi and Derek are having might be gone. Might.

dummy go back and read. I'm saying the coils are not as plush as the air
air rocks:devil:

 

[Ridemonkey]

Nothing wrong with the ride quality of the Psylo Race - its a great fork. Reliability is the issue. I certainly do not trust Manitous reliability either.

Maybe the 2003 Marathons will be the ticket.

Anyone know anything about the Fox Floats reliability?

And yer both dummies.

 

[spincrazy]

Originally posted by The Toninator


dummy go back and read. I'm saying the coils are not as plush as the air
air rocks:devil:

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND YOU NEED TO PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN.

Sorry for yelling, but you are too high.

 

[spincrazy]

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
Nothing wrong with the ride quality of the Psylo Race - its a great fork. Reliability is the issue. I certainly do not trust Manitous reliability either.

Maybe the 2003 Marathons will be the ticket.

Anyone know anything about the Fox Floats reliability?

And yer both dummies.

I'd go Manitou before Fox, but that's just me. The coil Fox's are glitchy still. I know nothing of their air shocks. In fact, I know of no one with an air Fox.

 

[The Toninator]

Originally posted by spincrazy


I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND YOU NEED TO PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN.

Sorry for yelling, but you are too high.

Then i'm lost you beg to differ with me but then you try to support your statement buy recommending an air fork? i must be high.

 

[The Toninator]

Originally posted by Ridemonkey


And yer both dummies.

true

 

[spincrazy]

Originally posted by The Toninator


true

TRUE

I'm trying to recommend an air fork, because that is what RM is looking for. I'm not trying to back up my statement at all. Coils are way more plush than air, that's that. I ride a Psylo SL and an Atom 80 - coil.

Are forks ramp up super fast and in turn the spring rate rises dramaticaly as it works its way through the travel. Coil forks are smoother. Air forks are great for racing because of their light weight, but are a much harshers ride and don't take abuse as well. Dirt jumpers love em.

published stuff:

Air/Air Shocks Fox, Rock Shox, and Cane Creek are making excellent shocks that uses air chambers for both the resistance and damping, which is super lightweight and very tunable. The big advantage is how lightweight they are, but they can suffer from the same low impact harshness as Air/Oil shocks..

Coil Spring Shocks replace the air chamber with a big spring to provide the resistance. Oil is used to damp the rebound. These shocks offer superb small bump sensitivity, with sidewalk cracks often enough to get these things going, yet the progressive nature of steel springs handle the big bumps great. Coil-spring shocks also offer simplicity, low maintenance, and relatively inexpensive price tags.
Air/Air Shocks Fox, Rock Shox, and Cane Creek are making excellent shocks that uses air chambers for both the resistance and damping, which is super lightweight and very tunable. The big advantage is how lightweight they are, but they can suffer from the same low impact harshness as Air/Oil shocks..

Coil Spring Shocks replace the air chamber with a big spring to provide the resistance. Oil is used to damp the rebound. These shocks offer superb small bump sensitivity, with sidewalk cracks often enough to get these things going, yet the progressive nature of steel springs handle the big bumps great. Coil-spring shocks also offer simplicity, low maintenance, and relatively inexpensive price tags.

 

[The Toninator]

D'OH! your still a dummy

 

[spincrazy]

Ride whatever you like. I currently am running an air rear shock with a coil fork, but I switch to a coil rear shock when doing the nasty, nasty. Both work.

:love:

 

[Heidi]

Are we talking about reat shocks now?

 

[Serial Midget]

I had thought about a Marathon for my psuedo cyclocross project; I was not aware that they had issues. I currently run a 02 Sid SL air with 80mm (weighs 2.8LBS) and a 01 Marzocchi Bomber air 100mm. I have not had issues with either but I pretty much keep the rubber on the ground.

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Air will never be as "responsive" as a coil shock and this is why.

In a shock, air molocules are smaller than oil molocules and under pressure. In order to seal the pressurized smaller molocules, a tighter seal must be used which creates stiction. This is virtually undetectable in a coil shock due to the looser sealing, since all that needs to be controlled is splashing oil.

With a tighter seal, a bigger force is required to overcome stiction.

Plush? What exatly is plush? I think of plush as a Super T or the rear end of a Bullit. We're talking 100mm here, I would think that controlling the travel and travel quality is more important.

In the 100mm category, quality, compression and rebound control is paramount. I would think these would be your deciding factors when you buy a fork. Adjustability should be paramount. Therefore, I recommend the Fox Float RLC. I think that for '03, Fox will nail it. They're already in the game, and they've had plenty of field testing to detect weakness.

 

[James]

Aaron-
I'd recommend the '03 Duke Race, personally. It's not coil, but I've been running my '02 Race for a while now, and it's both pretty damn stiff, and pretty plush. The '02 was 80mm only, but '03 has a 100mm travel option. Or you could try the Duke SL U-Turn, 80-100mm travel, coil-sprung. Both great forks.
If I wasn't a weight freak about some of my stuff (don't know why, I'm certainly too big to care, or should be), I'd have a Duke Race on all of my bikes...
Just my thoughts...

 

[arcteryx33]

I have Manitou X Vert super in great shape for $150 bucks.

 

[arcteryx33]

With 105mm of travel

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Heidi
I cringe at recommending the Marathon. Derek had big problems with his - it has been rebuilt 3 times. Mine isn't too much better. It fills with oil and gets real stiff every other month. It has been rebuilt once already. Now it makes a loud SNAP sound when I go off anything higher than 4"...no matter how much air I have in it. I need a new fork.

with the amount that you race and ride your mtn bike you should have had to rebuild your fork atleast once if not twice by this point in the season.

 

[The Toninator]

i'm going to install the zoch spring 80 again and just live with the weight for a while.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by mrbigisbudgood
Air will never be as "responsive" as a coil shock and this is why.

In a shock, air molocules are smaller than oil molocules and under pressure. In order to seal the pressurized smaller molocules, a tighter seal must be used which creates stiction. This is virtually undetectable in a coil shock due to the looser sealing, since all that needs to be controlled is splashing oil.

except all the forks mentioned except the manitou use open oil bath systems, which rely on the air above the oil bath to provide progressive spring assist, so the seals have to be air tight just like an air shock. The bright side is the splashing oil keeps hose seals lubricated and helps maintain the seal.

Anyway, with modern stanchion finishes, air shocks can be REALLY responsive. Feel a well maintained Psylo Race next to an SL, and you'll be impressed.

To answer RM's question: If you're worried about weight, stick with the Psylo race and get used to the maintenance issues. I don't think you'll find a lighter fork with better performance and less maintenance. Maybe the Fox float, but I don't have any experience with it. Or an older Marzocchi Z-1 Fly 100, but they just don't feel that good, IMO.

 

[CTR]

couple of the new fox forks must interest you, really expensive though

http://www.beyondbikes.com/shopping.asp?type=2&company=Fox

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Originally posted by ohio

Or an older Marzocchi Z-1 Fly 100, but they just don't feel that good, IMO.

One of my clydesdale friends (250) had the Z-1 Air and never had a problem with it and he ABUSED it. Good choice.

 

[prophet6]

the earlier statement about steel coil springs being "progressive" is untrue.

unless steel coils are wound specifically to be progressive (pro-wound) they have a completely linear spring rate. what can make them feel progressive is the inclusion of an air assist, which allows you to control through tuning how progressive the last bit of travel is.

p6

 

[PsychO!1]

Originally posted by prophet6
the earlier statement about steel coil springs being "progressive" is untrue.

unless steel coils are wound specifically to be progressive (pro-wound) they have a completely linear spring rate. what can make them feel progressive is the inclusion of an air assist, which allows you to control through tuning how progressive the last bit of travel is.

p6

The prophet speaks truth.

 

[LostBoyScout]

what about the new marathon s coil? i know you're hesitant on the marathon, but it could be all fixed up

 

[Ventanarama]

Originally posted by LostBoyScout
what about the new marathon s coil? i know you're hesitant on the marathon, but it could be all fixed up

Nice fork, but definitely on the heavy side, it's 4.3lbs uncut. The 03' Marathon SL (air) is also heavy this year (compared to last year) at 3.8-3.9lbs. Granted, many people couldn't care less about the weight. But, you're talking equal to or more weight than the comparable Fox models which are considerably stiffer. The Fox is also much easier to get dialed in. Just pump it up and go, the Marathon is great but takes a lot more fiddling to really get it dialed. If you're going to get a Marathon then get a closeout 02'. I've seen a few with problems, but not that many, a very good fork overall.

The Fox Float would be a great option RM....3.7lbs uncut (actual), very stiff, reliable, easy to work on. I've actually seen more little glitches with their coil forks than the Float. Get the 03' though, they've improved the damping. The new TALAS should be even better, externally adjustable travel and a "linear" air spring so it should ride more like a coil fork, cool stuff.

Larry Mettler
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com

 

[Ole]

Anybody know how the spring rate of the Talas is? The Float has a very outdated air fork feel to it, with a short coil negative spring. I read somewhere that the Talas has an air negative spring to remedy this problem (the spring rate of a Dual Air Rock Shox is pretty close to perfect unless you are heavy and need a lot of air.), but I've also recently read that it has a coil negative spring. Anybody actually tried a Talas? Or knows about the negative spring?¨

I don't care if the end is linear (because of their spring supported lower air chamber piston), I want the beginning of the stroke to be linear as well.

 

[Airborne]

Originally posted by James@Giant
Aaron-
I'd recommend the '03 Duke Race, personally. It's not coil, but I've been running my '02 Race for a while now, and it's both pretty damn stiff, and pretty plush. The '02 was 80mm only, but '03 has a 100mm travel option. Or you could try the Duke SL U-Turn, 80-100mm travel, coil-sprung. Both great forks.
If I wasn't a weight freak about some of my stuff (don't know why, I'm certainly too big to care, or should be), I'd have a Duke Race on all of my bikes...
Just my thoughts...

i have 100mm travel on my air Duke SL and LOVE IT!!!