[DavidMakalaster]

Manitou forks have not been always stellar in terms or reliability and everything...but there's not much to argue about the fact that the 2003 Sherman Slider was an excellent fork.

They screwed up with the SPV, SPV Evolve...as well as the Travis Intrinsic-whatever...but the 2003 TPC+ Sherman Slider was great. It's just too bad it was only a 6" travel fork...

The 2001 XVert Super was also a very good fork. I seem to recall some people had problems with it...but personally, this fork served me very well for several years (OK, it was not bone-stock as I replaced the seals by those used on the Black and replaced the lubricating grease by motor-oil in order to have semi-bath lubrification irate2: ).

Sliders were REALLY flexy, had no adjustment range, were loaded with plastic internals, and felt generally kind of blah.

XVerts broke if you looked at them wrong and once again they were very average.

 

[FlipSide]

Sliders were REALLY flexy, had no adjustment range, were loaded with plastic internals, and felt generally kind of blah.

XVerts broke if you looked at them wrong and once again they were very average.

You forgot one thing about the Slider...the turning radius sucked! It was pretty much my only complain about it. Ho yeah...the bushings didn't last very long also. I don't agree completely about the rest though. In 2003, the Boxxers were pretty much a nightmare, the Marz SuperT had press fit lower crown and didn't fit large tires iirc. The Shiver and Monster were heavy...etc.

Of course the 2003 Slider was not feeling as good as the 2007 fork (Boxxer, Totem, ... for example), but they were really decent compared to the other DC forks IMO.

I know about the XVert...I never really understood why mine was so reliable.

 

[Udi]

I think it's a step backwards.

Doesn't 6lbs in an invert with 34mm stanchions worry anyone else? Inverts are always the heavy cousin purely by design, and so far have always been the flexy cousin as well. To get the weight that low on an invert while simultaneously increasing the stanchion diameter, wall thicknesses would have dropped to an all time low. It's just how the engineering triangle works.

Now I've seen those dorado carbon uppers destroyed before, and can only see it being easier now. Well that's if the weight is legitimate, personally I'm a bit dubious (and as per above, that mightn't be a bad thing).

IMO what they needed to do was to build a light and low conventional chassis - and then dump in a good old TPC+ damper (with a nice air spring in the other leg). At this rate though, I wonder if they'll ever figure that out...

 

[muddy beast]

I think it looks kinda cool...lets see how it does first, ehh?

 

[Jm_]

I cant wait for it. A light upside down fork.

The origial dorado was just over 8lbs with the intergrated stem, shiver 8.7lbs for the same. I'm not sure if that .7 lbs defintes it as "lightweight", but that was also for the "regular" dorado, not the X-works version that had bigger stanchions, more travel (longer dampers, tubes, etc).

Light? I'd believe that when I see it on a scale.

 

[Jm_]

34 mm inner tube? why didn't they just go for 35 or 36? would be wisser

Easy question.

Manitou uses 34mm tubes for the travis, so it's far cheaper for them to use the same size, because then they can use the same seals, dampers (if not exactly, at least lots of the same parts), and so on.

 

[karpi]

It's pretty obvious I guess, but the thing is, if they are gonna make it lighter, and have the dorado as a top line fork, then I wouldn't be wrong to make the tubes larger in diameter, plus, let's not forget, it be wayy stronger if it larger tubes

 

[davep]

My x-works was the biggest POS I have seen.
Its ride quality was worse than any fork I have tried, the spv bladder punctured and leaked on a regular basis (causing a total lack of damping), the lube oil only stayed in the fork after I found some aftermarket hydraulic seals (tried 4 sets of Manitou seals in 1.5 months), the fork twisted if you looked at it sideways (without crashing), it leaked oil between the carbon upper and the bonded aluminum lugs at the top, the guards broke first small ditch (replacements were like $75).............................................................

The crowning jewel though, was the 'official SPV fix' that I waited all summer for ("were working on a solution...")...Took my fork to manitou at crankworks (or was it joyride then?) and got it back two days later. It no longer had the SPV stiction but it had no damping at all.....turns out that the 'official fix' was to run a 1/16" drill bit straight through the damping head....in effect, making the the dorado the worlds most expensive orifice damper fork in history..

I will say though, Manitou (warranty guy..forget his name) was good about free spare parts, even getting me stuff while I was in whistler (guy from vancouver drove them up to me)...and in the end, they refunded my ALL of the $$ that I paid for the fork, because they had no idea how to get it to work correctly...
I thought they handled things quite well, but it will be a LONG time before i even look at Manitou products again.

I did think that the original 6" slider was a great fork as well. It had some faults (o-ring seals on the foot nuts, plastic rebound rod, turning radius), but it worked good and MOST IMPORTANT, I could completely rebuild and tune the fork (rebound, compression, progressiveness) at home with no special tools in only a couple of minutes. It is the reason that I bought the Dorado.


TPC plus = the best product that manitou has brought to market. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel (and failing every time), swallow their pride, and bring it back if they hope to have a product that someone might buy.

 

[wanabe]

Maybe I am stoopid, but does anyone else think it is weird that the fork tapers in towards the hub? Wouldnt going through its travel put unnessesary stress on seals, bushings, and the whole fork?

 

[1453]

Maybe I am stoopid, but does anyone else think it is weird that the fork tapers in towards the hub? Wouldnt going through its travel put unnessesary stress on seals, bushings, and the whole fork?

which photo are you looking at?

 

[buildyourown]

Considering how good the DH40, the 888 and the Boxxer are right now, you would have to be a complete moron to buy that POS.

It's not an unproven 1st year design. It's a 6 year old design that's proven to be fragile and unreliable. Well they made it lighter, maybe that will make it not snap in half.

 

[DHFreak]

Does no one realize that Manitou is now owned by Hayes Brake Company. The company is now under new management and they have new designers working for them as well. So, hopefully this change of ownership will usher in a new and better era for Manitou forks.

 

[dropmachine]

A lot of people realize that. But unlike say another company that bought a fork company and turned them around, Hayes isn't known for high quality stuff. I know myself, I have never owned a set of Hayes that worked as well as the competition.

That said, the Dorado LOOKS great, but only ride time iwll see how it is. On paper though, its intriguing.


BTW, a quick addition...the Dorado is for 09, not 08. My bad.

 

[Jm_]

Does no one realize that Manitou is now owned by Hayes Brake Company. The company is now under new management and they have new designers working for them as well. So, hopefully this change of ownership will usher in a new and better era for Manitou forks.

Ok, but they then make a "new" inverted fork? Why? Engineering wise it doesn't make any sense. You can make a stiffer, stronger, lighter, more reliable "right-side-up" fork. The dorado was never a "light" fork, the x-works version was even heavier. It's not to say that it was "monster T-heavy", but the point is, "what is the point?". If you make an inverted fork, you'll have something that isn't as torsionally stiff, or if you do go to lengths to make it tortionally stiff then you increase the weight compared to the comperable right-side-up fork. There are no benefits to using the inverted design (which is why marzocchi dropped it). There is no less unsprung mass to any measurable degree (we're talking a 5-10% change or less in total unsprung mass). It could be stiffer fore-aft, but you can just make the tubes on a conventional fork bigger and get the same benefit (fox 40), there is increased bushing overlap, but with less tortional rigidity it doesn't really do anything for you because you can still make a 200mm conventional fork with ample bushing length.

So the question becomes; "what's the point"?

This is not to say that it can't be stiff or it can't be a good chassi, but you could take that same engineering and come out with a lighter or stiffer conventional fork, because that upside down chassi doesn't really do anything for you.

 

[bizutch]

Hey Jm...my new catch phrase is:
"That's got ample bushings"

 

[dropmachine]

...inverted rant....

... and yet every motocross fork out there is inverted. You can't tell me that an inverted fork doesn't have its benefits in some cases, cause thats simply not the truth.

 

[Jm_]

... and yet every motocross fork out there is inverted. You can't tell me that an inverted fork doesn't have its benefits in some cases, cause thats simply not the truth.

Have you ever considered why they are used for motorcross?

It's because when you case a jump, or just do big jumps, you need all the fore-aft strength you can get, as well as the fact that NON-inverted motorcross forks do not have a brake arch, so you are aren't comparing apples if you're trying to make parallels with motorcross forks.

If you go between a motorcross inverted fork and right side up fork, you won't have a big difference in stiffness, neither of them ever had a brake arch and they are obviously much bigger than any mountain bike forks, with more travel that is in the region where you have to have an inverted fork or 5-6" of extended lowers hanging below the axle with a non-inverted fork.

It's simply not apples to apples.

 

[lovebunny]

so who here has bounced on the fork or even seen one in person? ok til you do, shut the hell up. it looks like a damn nice fork to me. im excited for it

 

[Udi]

Is the US like Australia where the only guys that defend manitou are the guys sponsored by them / work for them?

 

[Ozzer]

This is good read. Like as exciting as a new chrome riser bar.
Bring on the hatred. Who needs the riding part of mountainbiking?

I sold my soul to Rock Shox. Get a boxxer. It externally lubricates.

 

[jonKranked]

it looks like a damn nice fork to me. im excited for it

this is just like thinking you're clicking a porn link for a hot blond and then BAM transvestite, but still not looking away.





yes i just compared manitou forks to she-male porn. and them being owned by hayes isn't going to save them. Last time I checked everyone I know running hayes brakes was selling them for other brands.

 

[greenhood]

That's what happens to all forks there when they have a production...better word......design flaw is someone in the after market will pick up on it and fix it. I'm sure when a Dorado was tunned correctly it worked like a champ, but a lot of people never wanted to futz with it that much. With the other forks out there feeling good out of the box, it was why people didn't jump on the Dorado band wagon.

On the other half though my Minute forks I've had worked great. I dunno if it was something with their DH forks or what, but I had a couple of different Minute forks and they worked fine, and were stupid easy to set up and get right as well.

They'll make a fork to keep things going. It's just how well it holds up to a Boxxer/888/40 in terms of performance as you can get any one of them, new they are expensive, but used are pretty decent. It's just all what people are willing to play with.

I had a Minute 3 and it was one of the best forks I have ever owned.

 

[greenhood]

if sam hill rides it will everyone fall in love with it?

Yes, if Hill rides it, many will follow.

 

[mike@HBG]

I have been looking over the posts and thought I would clear up some of the errors in the info about the upcoming new Dorado. I do know what the "real" info is as I work for the Hayes Bicycle Group doing development and testing, the Yeti pictured with the fork, is my personal bike and I have been riding the prototype for several months now. The fork will be a 2009 model rather than an '08. You will more than likely start to see the fork on the pros bikes early in next year’s race season, with a release to the public, hopefully early in the summer of 2008. So here is the scoop on the goods, the fork has 36mm stanchions (not 34mm), will have 200mm of travel (only travel that will be offered) and weighs a bit under 7lbs (6.4 to be exact) It uses a new style, low pressure air spring system which also has an air negative spring, both air chambers are adjusted through a common air valve. The damping system is also a new design. It has high and low speed compression adjustments, hydraulic dampened bottom out and top out and rebound adjustment. It does NOT have a lockout nor does it use any type of SPV system. Keep in mind that all of the forks are currently prototypes, we use parts (knobs, stickers, ect.) from other forks in our line up at times early in the ride test period, so that is why you see stickers that say SPV or knobs that mention features that don’t exist in the actual fork. It also allows us to test new designs for quite a while before the public figures things out.

 

[big-ted]

Thanks for clearing up the rumors Mike. Without wanting to sound rude, hopefully you guys can see the kind of reputation Manitou have earned themselves from the comments voiced in this thread. With any luck, you can come back with a sorted product that goes the distance.

All the best.

 

[bizutch]

I have been looking over the posts and thought I would clear up some of the errors in the info about the upcoming new Dorado. I do know what the "real" info is as I work for the Hayes Bicycle Group doing development and testing, the Yeti pictured with the fork, is my personal bike and I have been riding the prototype for several months now. The fork will be a 2009 model rather than an '08. You will more than likely start to see the fork on the pros bikes early in next year’s race season, with a release to the public, hopefully early in the summer of 2008. So here is the scoop on the goods, the fork has 36mm stanchions (not 34mm), will have 200mm of travel (only travel that will be offered) and weighs a bit under 7lbs (6.4 to be exact) It uses a new style, low pressure air spring system which also has an air negative spring, both air chambers are adjusted through a common air valve. The damping system is also a new design. It has high and low speed compression adjustments, hydraulic dampened bottom out and top out and rebound adjustment. It does NOT have a lockout nor does it use any type of SPV system. Keep in mind that all of the forks are currently prototypes, we use parts (knobs, stickers, ect.) from other forks in our line up at times early in the ride test period, so that is why you see stickers that say SPV or knobs that mention features that don’t exist in the actual fork. It also allows us to test new designs for quite a while before the public figures things out.

Possibly the Best 1st post ever by an industry rep.
Clear, concise, positive minded and brilliantly underspoken. No hint of defensiveness.

Good luck staying objective though...these net geeks are ruthless.

FYI, all we folks on the East Coast can ever ask of Hayes is to make a fork that will work a full season in the mud, grit and marshy wetness that is the East Coast. Make it squishy plush and sealed from mother nature.

And can I recommend you let an East Coast rider test one out before declaring it "sealed from the elements"? Manitou never quite caught on to East Coast mud prevention in their past life.

Best Wishes,
Butch

 

[SinatorJ]

I will still stand by the fact that wy Doradoin 03 was the smoothest fork in braking, and for bumpy tracks. Loved it, rode it and worked on it alot, but i guess that was the tradeoff.

 

[binary visions]

Mike, welcome to Ridemonkey. It's awesome to have industry people around here who bring an insider's perspective as well as real information to otherwise speculative and rumor-based threads.

Hope you stick around

 

[sikocycles]

Brown nosing wont get you a free fork.
Welcome to RM

 

[Fonzie18]

yeah, on the bottom of the right leg.....look at the pics on the link jeff posted and you can see it in there....

that just made me realize something else.....great place for a lockout....underneath the hub, nice and accessible

Uhhh, it has a lockout?

 

[jvnixon]

Uhhh, it has a lockout?

It doesn't. It just is a knob that says lockout on it.

 

[Sandwich]

i think it's crescent fresh. I'd rock one if i had a race bike.

 

[Espen]

Dorado for president!


e

 

[norbar]

I will learn ride smooth If you get me one

 

[CBJ]

Only important question: Can you run it on a Sunday?

 

[norbar]

Who cares about sunday? It's time for a revolution to overthrow sunday! Maybe the new Lehikoinen team bike? So tired of sunday talk everywhere

 

[CBJ]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[jonKranked]

Who cares about sunday? It's time for a revolution to overthrow sunday!

I care about Sunday. It gives me a chance to recover from Saturday (night). Also, Sunday is football day and race day.

 

[norbar]

Naah who needs to recover? Any why not switch to wednesday? It's euro footbal(soccer in us) day so it has some points