[northernstyle]

Seems like there are a lot of threads on here about the Glory's new GEO

Check this article out:
http://dunbarcycles.pinkbike.com/blog/Custom-Glory.html

Kinda Interesting

 

[norbar]

I'd rather wait for the tapered offset cups that are in the works right now.

 

[jonKranked]

Running a 2.5" stroke would turn the 8 inch travel bike into a a bike with a just a bit over 7" which is just too close to freerider territory for a DH'er like me.

 

[TrailzHozer]

I'd rather wait for the tapered offset cups that are in the works right now.

yup.

should be any day now
http://workscomponents.blogspot.com/2010/02/works-components-offset-reducer-cups-15.html

 

[xy9ine]

angle of link (ie, looks pretty much fully extended) at not quite full stroke doesn't look too good. looks like it could almost overextend & tweak the shock back. perhaps not in reality.

 

[norbar]

I just went on to read how they did it and than went TL DR, that's pinkbike gold

 

[northernstyle]

Tl dr???

 

[norbar]

Tl dr???

Sry, too lazy and use acronyms. Too long, don't read. Still don't really understand why buy a bike with geo you dont like so you later change it doing strange stuff. The price is good but if you know your way around it is not unbeatable.

 

[jonKranked]

I just went on to read how they did it and than went TL DR, that's pinkbike gold

because we all know the difference between a dh'er and a hucker is 3/4"

 

[SylentK]

Do people who actually have significant time on the bike think the HA is too steep and BB too high?

You also gotta wonder what sitting further in the travel does to the suspension with the smaller shock. Not just bottom out issues. Wait, I guess I could look at the wheelpath chart in that other thread....sounds like a lotta work...

I found it interesting that they show a pic measuring BB but not HA. What is this? Some type of Pinkbike article?

 

[bdamschen]

One of my most favorite bikes ever to race was my socom with a claimed 65.5 HA.

 

[Tmeyer]

Mine def seems slacker than 65.5 with my 888 crown an inch above the minimum line? Have yet to measure HA but my BB is dead on at 14? Feels perfect FOR ME but I also have less than 10 shuttles on the frame so far..

 

[kidwithbike]

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

Sounds like Elka could sell a lot of those. Time on the bike notwithstanding, once you are used to a bike with a 64 degree or less head angle, going to something with a 65.5 sucks. I put my head tube sleeve into the +1 instead of -1 position by accident on my Commencal, after riding it in the 63 degree position for a while, and couldn't figure out why I was knifing all the turns and careening over the bars all day. There's nothing wrong with changing stuff up, and these guys seem to be totally aware of the potential problems. Flipping the links on the Faith transformed that bike, and short-shocking bikes is nothing new. Good on em.

That said, I just measured our bone stock Demo 8, 63.5 according the the iphone angulator. Maybe we could short-shock that and get a bike with a 42 degree head angle and 6 inch high bb. More extreme is always better.

 

[Metal Dude]

Pretty Cool Idea I think but, The coolest thing about the thread is ELKA!
Those guys rock! How many shock companies could you call up and get a
custom built shock in as fast a turn around as a stock one?
Just started working with them last week for our team and
Already have my new Elka custom tuned shock on the way for my
Trek Session thanks to Yann and John! I had tried to contact CC
for 4 months with no response from phone calls, emails, inside contacts etc.???
Called Elka and got a human on the phone first try.
They returned my questions the same day. You can tell they are hungry
to get their reputation built in the MTB industry! It won't take long with
the quality and customer service that I am hearing about from everyone
that has dealt with them.

 

[Metal Dude]

angle of link (ie, looks pretty much fully extended) at not quite full stroke doesn't look too good. looks like it could almost overextend & tweak the shock back. perhaps not in reality.

Good point but, can probably be overcompensated by the shock setup.

 

[John P.]

Do people who actually have significant time on the bike think the HA is too steep and BB too high?

Good point, but I'd counter with the notion that I defy you to show me a negative review anyone has ever written about their brand new bike. It's like we're all so busy trying to justify and forget about the thousands we just shelled out that none of us can be even remotely objective.

 

[4130biker]

Good point, but I'd counter with the notion that I defy you to show me a negative review anyone has ever written about their brand new bike. It's like we're all so busy trying to justify and forget about the thousands we just shelled out that none of us can be even remotely objective.

I think this is a great point, and what we're after is being stoked on how our bikes ride, so isn't being objective beside the point? If you love it, who cares. (Obviously most bikes are relatively good, compared to past bikes.) If it takes the approval of RM dudes with their angulators and BS like that, great. I have fallen more into the second category than I would like, but I have also learned alot from this board. I have short shocked a bike myself, but I think that linkage looks sketchy.
Not only that, but when I short shocked my enduro, I found that it felt like my feet were too far out in front of me (if that makes sense). I have since gone back to the stock configuration with "lame" geometry and it works much better.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Elka just opened a ton of doors with building this IMO. Within design constraints, you could get more travel from your bike with a 8.5 shock if you wanted.

I had tried to contact CC
for 4 months with no response from phone calls, emails, inside contacts etc.???

When I first saw Dunbar was doing this mod, I e-mailed Malcolm at CC to see if it was possible to build a Double Barrel in this configuration. He had another email to me within 15 minutes...

 

[big-ted]

Do people who actually have significant time on the bike think the HA is too steep and BB too high?

Apparently, the owner of this particular bike did?

 

[dropmachine]

I think it would be quite funny to take 10 riders and make them do a couple runs on the stock bike, then do some runs on the changed bike, and see if they were actually faster.

I'm betting they aren't.

 

[xy9ine]

Good point but, can probably be overcompensated by the shock setup.

true; though that would be a bit of a bodge. it kinda looks like you'd never really want to reach that final 1/4" of stroke to bottom. perhaps set up so it's only effectively stroking 2.5", so you may be able to use an off the shelf 2.5" stroke shock to the same effect.

anyways, all speculative, so meh.

 

[freeridefool]

I think it would be quite funny to take 10 riders and make them do a couple runs on the stock bike, then do some runs on the changed bike, and see if they were actually faster.

I'm betting they aren't.

Its like you get up on the grumpy side of the bed every day and take it out here. I love it and I agree with most of what you say. That said I did notice on my relic 03 dh comp the difference in handling with a shorter shock.

 

[karpi]

I think it would be quite funny to take 10 riders and make them do a couple runs on the stock bike, then do some runs on the changed bike, and see if they were actually faster.

I'm betting they aren't.

probably true, but at the end of the day, it's not about numbers (although it actually is when your against the clock) its about comfort and how you feel on your bike. So as the review states, its not for everyone. I believe on the other hand that this is a step forward in improving the glorys performance, although a Angled cup would seem more suited for the job...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

I think it would be quite funny to take 10 riders and make them do a couple runs on the stock bike, then do some runs on the changed bike, and see if they were actually faster.

I'm betting they aren't.

i´d double the bet and say most, given unmarked bikes with covered shocks, wouldnt be able to tell the difference...

 

[W4S]

i´d double the bet and say most, given unmarked bikes with covered shocks, wouldnt be able to tell the difference...

I would bet that given to a certain level rider, all would feel the difference but it wouldn't necessarily make them faster until they found out how to keep up with the new speed. I can definitely feel the difference between angles but optimizing the changes takes time and work.

 

[norbar]

I think it would be quite funny to take 10 riders and make them do a couple runs on the stock bike, then do some runs on the changed bike, and see if they were actually faster.

I'm betting they aren't.

I don't know about shock changes but when I bought a frame with headtube angle adjust I didn't know **** about what are the cool numbers on rm and changed it around back and forth. The differance was very noticable.

 

[dropmachine]

Oh I'm sure you can feel the difference, but thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, so many people here look at the paper numbers, and because its not what they expect just assume it to be wrong. So, they make changes to the bike without actually seeing if they are beneficial or not.

I am betting the 2010 Giant Glory rips just fine, right out of the box, without any mods. I would also be willing to bet that people will make changes to the bike, convincing themselves that its faster, but finding out theres a good chance its not.

Its all just kind of amusing, ya know?

 

[iRider]

One of my most favorite bikes ever to race was my socom with a claimed 65.5 HA.

You raced XC on it or what?

Just kidding! Socoms are awesome and I am still waiting for a Socom Evo to come out so I can replace my old one.

 

[norbar]

Oh I'm sure you can feel the difference, but thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, so many people here look at the paper numbers, and because its not what they expect just assume it to be wrong. So, they make changes to the bike without actually seeing if they are beneficial or not.

I am betting the 2010 Giant Glory rips just fine, right out of the box, without any mods. I would also be willing to bet that people will make changes to the bike, convincing themselves that its faster, but finding out theres a good chance its not.

Its all just kind of amusing, ya know?

For that part I agree. I always check first though as I've said previously it kinda misses the point to buy the glory if you are not happy with the angles.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

It all depends on how long you've been riding, your personal style, ect. Many people have not really been riding long enough to have any well developed preferences. I know my first few years I just ran it when it came to suspension and geo and didn't know the difference. So yeah there are probably a bunch of people who think they need world cup geometry who aren't carrying nearly enough pace to make it work. I've raced several less-than-ideal race bikes in my career, one of them being the Socom which was fine except with that head angle you had to be mega-death-gripped, particularly at Vermont, Snowmass, and the like.

I don't agree with all geometry trends, I think less than high 13s in the bb is too low, but after riding a 63 degree head angle, I'll never go back. If I was on a giant for whatever reason, I would be calling Push and doing exactly the same thing.

 

[Kanye West]

i´d double the bet and say most, given unmarked bikes with covered shocks, wouldnt be able to tell the difference...

I'd double both of those bets and say that on a super steep run with lots of slide-y corners and ruts, the difference would be night and day. There's a reason fast riders get hard-ons for low slack bikes.

The only thing that sucks about shorter shocks is that it usually takes away the top plushest part of the travel, and introduces a part of the travel near the bottom that isn't normally supposed to be there.

 

[yuroshek]

Jason Memmelaar is currently testing the new Works Component headset on his bike. He instantly noticed the geo change, he also has been riding for years and years. He also put a little bit softer spring on the rear, he loves how the bike handles and the HA sits at 64* which is perfect for east coast racing. The rest of Giant/HBG race team will be on these headsets for 2010.

 

[northernstyle]

Do people who actually have significant time on the bike think the HA is too steep and BB too high?

You also gotta wonder what sitting further in the travel does to the suspension with the smaller shock. Not just bottom out issues. Wait, I guess I could look at the wheelpath chart in that other thread....sounds like a lotta work...

I found it interesting that they show a pic measuring BB but not HA. What is this? Some type of Pinkbike article?

I originally got the bike because I loved the feel of my old sunday and was hoping the Glory would feel similar. I was on the bike for about a month with its stock GEO. I could get the HA where i wanted it if I ran the crowns really high up on the fork but than the whole bike felt like it was miles off the ground and the front end would slide like crazy in the corners. The new shock feels awesome!! I am able to run the front end really low now and still have a slack HA. The bike lost some of its pop and snap now that its so slack, but its super stable now on the fast and rough.

As for the last bit of travel , not sure what ELKA did with the valving but it feels awesome, even in that last bit of travel it continues to ramp up and feels wicked. Who knows maybe the whole bike will explode into flames next week, but for now it feels a lot better than the stock GEO.

Just thought it would be a fun lil project to show the possibilities to all the Glory customers out there as its going to be a pretty hot bike for this year what with its crazy build for the price.

 

[Steve M]

Cool mod, though a bit sketchy changing the bottom-out point IMO. Personally I would have gone for an 8.5x2.5" instead and just dealt with having a bit less travel, but that's me. I think this sort of stuff is a great (and relatively affordable) way to get the geometry you want out of an otherwise solid bike.

It is interesting how when the Sunday was introduced (admittedly 5 years ago) people claimed it would be almost unrideably slack with its 65* head angle, and now people are like "how can you ride something that steep!?". Yeah sure it's not "necessary" to have it lower/slacker/whatever, but when you're already paying several thousand dollars for a high-end bike you might as well put some time and effort into getting it to ride exactly the way you want it to.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

Interesting debate about whether "average Joe" could tell the difference between the two bikes if blinded. I don't know how timed runs would work out for someone who isn't riding all that fast. However, handling properties aside, one of the other benefits of a low and slack bike is that it is much more forgiving when on steep terrain when you make a poor line choice, run into a square edged obstacle, or overcook a corner, etc. It would be interesting to let people make a bunch or runs and then count wrecks or sketch outs with the two set ups...I'd be there is a difference. My point is that, regardless of whether you're riding "at world cup pace" I think there is something to be said for a bike that lets you push your personal limits a bit more safely.

 

[mitcht]

Did the shorter shock lengthen the wheelbase of the bike? There hasn't been much discussion on this geo adjustment...

 

[karpi]

it should if the head angle is less steep... it would project the front axel forward a couple of cms (about an inch, inch and a half)

 

[gemini2k]

I think it would be quite funny to take 10 riders and make them do a couple runs on the stock bike, then do some runs on the changed bike, and see if they were actually faster.

I'm betting they aren't.

You must be riding really boring trails if time is your only metric for whether something is better or worse :'(. On trails that are actually steep and challenging a 1 degree slacker HA can make a huge difference. When you're just hoping to make it down without dabbing or without slidding out in a steep loose turn, a slacker HA can mean the difference between falling and hitting the line.

That being said, just sticking a shorter shock on a bike to get a slacker HA is epic fail.

 

[jonKranked]

You must be riding really boring trails if time is your only metric for whether something is better or worse :'(. On trails that are actually steep and challenging a 1 degree slacker HA can make a huge difference. That being said, just sticking a shorter shock on a bike to get a slacker HA is epic fail.

by this logic, a trail has to be steep to be fun?