[Alloy]

I went up to Marzocchi the other day to get a rebound cartridge and they showed us the new 888 ....and after much debate, serious consideration, and hours of using my protractor, I have to say...

























Marzocchi is back for 2010!

And not just because of the lower weight, dont' get me wrong 6.83 lbs is nice, but I'm much more excited about the new adjustable shim stack compression dampener.

Basically you can unscrew the dampening valve at the bottom of the compression cartridge and re-shim it yourself! And they're are selling after market shim kits and will have a guide with different recommended settings for different riding styles or ofcourse you can come up with your own custom stack.

As for the rest of the changes...

They have tapered stanchions, to me these were almost too light to feel safe, but they claim they're just as strong and the loads are better distributed. We weighed them, they save around a half lb

A lighter ti spring, more space between the coils. Saved about 1/4 to 1/3 lb (don't remember exact savings, Shivermetimbers has pictures of everything on the scales... see his mtbr thread here)

Less oil volume, we have pictures of the 09 vrs 2010 compression dampeners side by side to see the difference.

New bushings, they used a new material and unlike 08 or 09 this time they reamed them to size.

Also they're using Ti hardware in everything. The fork we weighed still had steel hardware, so there will be a littler more weight savings there.

Lets hear your thoughts! ...Do you think Marzocchi is really back and will they once again have a competing fork in 2010?


Fixed it ... This is the old cartridge next to the new one
<imgsrc="http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=451123&stc=1&d=1240534732"/>

 

[bpatterson6]

lthumbsdown:

 

[demo 9]

moar Shimmmzzzzzzzzz

 

[dhmike]

 

[OBB]

moar Shimmmzzzzzzzzz

That seemed appropriate. Maybe it will come in rootbeer colour.

 

[S.K.C.]

Pics from MTBR as posted by ShiverMeTimbers:

Bottom of 2009 Cartridge on the Left... 2010 Cart on the Right:

Same pic as above - but with 2010 Shim Stack removed:

Some more info from the MTBR post:

No bushing play for 2010 because

1)new material used in bushing

2)instead of stock bushings put down into a casting seat. The bushings for 2010 are fitted bushings reamed into exact size....this makes the tolerances more precise.....and gives less stiction also....

man hours for each fork and production costs went up but Marzocchi is keeping the same price

??? Not sure how they're pulling that off, but anyway - that guy might have it wrong on how many additional man hrs. (if any) Marz. is putting in on the new 2010 888 assembly/production.

Axle to Crown Heights:

888 = 583mm @ 200mm travel
66 = 568mm @ 180mm travel
55 = 541mm @ 160mm travel
44 = 518mm @ 140mm travel

There will be no 888 ATA for 2010.

THANK GOD... it was a good idea, BUT... the design definitely had issues.

Being a former Marz. guy I thought I'd take the time to grab some pics and post them up. The new 2010 888 looks very promising so I guess we'll just wait and see.

(I wonder where they got the idea for offering an adjustable shim stack to customers so they could tune their own fork...... Udi, Socket - you guys know where they could have gotten that idea from? :biggrin: )

 

[climbingbubba]

i really like my 09 888 ata. you would think they would come out with an all air non travel adjust verison though. who really needs travel on a strict DH bike.

 

[Kanye West]

It's going to be pretty legit, keep your eyes peeled.

 

[?????]

When will they stop using the Wal-Mart bike looking stanchions?

 

[Kanye West]

I think it's more like "when will Walmart bikes stop using Marzocchi/Rockshox looking stanchions?"

 

[?????]

I think it's more like "when will Walmart bikes stop using Marzocchi/Rockshox looking stanchions?"

Rockshox only uses the heinous chromed steel stanchions on their cheap forks. The black stanchions aren't bad at first, but they do look like crap once the black finish wears off.

I remember lusting over Bomber forks 5-7 years ago, but they seem to look worse and worse every year (although the 2008 emo graphics were an all time low in fork graphics).

You can say graphics don't matter, but Fox and Rockshox both make 6.8 lb forks that have proven to be reliable and work well, so any of the forks you choose will likely be good enough once you set it up.

 

[SteezyWeezy]

When will they stop using the Wal-Mart bike looking stanchions?

when you stop shopping at walmart

 

[no skid marks]

I think the chrome staunchions are the best looking out there, and slippery enough.
Shim stack sounds good, but what external adjustments do they come with?

 

[?????]

when you stop shopping at walmart

<insert any cheap department store bike>

 

[Alloy]

Being a former Marz. guy I thought I'd take the time to grab some pics and post them up. The new 2010 888 looks very promising so I guess we'll just wait and see.

(I wonder where they got the idea for offering an adjustable shim stack to customers so they could tune their own fork...... Udi, Socket - you guys know where they could have gotten that idea from? :biggrin: )

Thanks for that, Great post!

 

[dilzy]

It looks to my eyes like they have gone for a full motocross style open bath with a base and mid valve. All looks fantastic, but I couldn't fitgure out why they didn't include a high speed blow off adjuster on the base valve.

 

[davep]

By the looks of the pic, the base compression valve adjuster is a needle bypas adjust...so LSC/bleed.

Soooo, about Marz......
They have refused to provided any and all tech info (from the simplest procedures for changing oil in a fork, how to change a spring, even the basic (correct) descriptions of their own products in their 'manuals'.....to info like shock oil viscosity, res PSI, proper fork PSI, etc)...for the last 7 years.

How long ago was it that they promised that the Roco would be user re-buildable and they would provide tuning/shims/tech info/etc. This was THE benefit used to sell the Roco...and surprise, surprise it never materialized. Does anyone really believe (again) that they will completely reverse this company wide policy just like that???

I suppose they could have a great fork.... but with multiple years of no documentation, no tech support, unwanted and unfunctional features, poor designs/engineering, and horrible QC... I have a hard time believing it.

I would also suggest anyone not familiar with SMT to read a few of his threads so as to get a proper feel for his technical merit and biases......


BTW, how many people know someone who has broken a ti Fox spring???? How long do you think they would last if the mean stress was increased by 20% due to decreased coils/material?

 

[norbar]

They lost me at 583mm axle to crown on 888. That is the main reason I want to ditch my 07's.

 

[gonefirefightin]

give me a break, all they did was try to polish a turd. same cheap ass crap as before just a new color and shape.

 

[Sandwich]

It's funny-
Back in the day, everybody switched to zokes from RS because of poor quality control, poor design, and bad reliability...now everybody switched from zokes to RS for the same reasons. Rockshox meanwhile is releasing better parts, functional shocks (who would have thought) and relatively reliable parts. huh.

 

[jonKranked]

give me a break, all they did was try to polish a turd. same cheap ass crap as before just a new color and shape.

really?

 

[gonefirefightin]

really?

suspension technology has been the same for the last 15 years and nothing has been "so amazing" that it has changed the market. even moto suspension has been nothing but spring untill the last 10-15 years.

they are all based on the same principals and each has there own little "qwerk" thats trys to make themelves standout but when you work on them all day long they are all the same.

of all the forks I work on marz has the worst materials and the cheapest components.

 

[jonKranked]

suspension technology has been the same for the last 15 years and nothing has been "so amazing" that it has changed the market. even moto suspension has been nothing but spring untill the last 10-15 years.

they are all based on the same principals and each has there own little "qwerk" thats trys to make themelves standout but when you work on them all day long they are all the same.

of all the forks I work on marz has the worst materials and the cheapest components.

I agree, the fundamentals are the same across the board.

But moving from a sealed cartridge unit to a user serviceable one is a pretty big improvement.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I agree, the fundamentals are the same across the board.

But moving from a sealed cartridge unit to a user serviceable one is a pretty big improvement.

Fox has been doing it for 30 years.

 

[jonKranked]

Fox has been doing it for 30 years.

Fox has only been making mountain bike forks for about 7 years. Last I checked this wasn't a moto-x site.


Edit: The thread title is "2010 Marzocchi", not "2010 Fox". My comment about the change being an improvement was in regards to the subject at hand.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I am saying suspension overall is the same. there is no difference between forks and shocks. still the same.

you guys are making it sound like marz is shocking the world when other outfits have been doing it from the start.

 

[jonKranked]

I am saying suspension overall is the same. there is no difference between forks and shocks. still the same.

you guys are making it sound like marz is shocking the world when other outfits have been doing it from the start.

Fundamentally its the same, yes. That's not the point.


Point is, it sounds like Marzocchi has learned from their "mistakes" the last few years and is making a good effort at refining their high end DH forks. But I'm not one to count my chickens before they're hatched. They can say whatever they want but I won't believe it till I see it. It does sound like they are heading in the right direction at least.

 

[downhillracer]

BTW, how many people know someone who has broken a ti Fox spring???? How long do you think they would last if the mean stress was increased by 20% due to decreased coils/material?

Hahaha. So true. I have broken two of them myself. I finally said forget it and put a steel spring in. Like you said I can only imagine what their ti coil is gonna do with 20% less material

 

[General Lee]

Hahaha. So true. I have broken two of them myself. I finally said forget it and put a steel spring in. Like you said I can only imagine what their ti coil is gonna do with 20% less material

Fox springs broke so that means Marzocchi springs will break too? This thread has some of the finest internet blather I've read in a while.

 

[slowitdown]

It's funny-
Back in the day, everybody switched to zokes from RS because of poor quality control, poor design, and bad reliability...now everybody switched from zokes to RS for the same reasons. Rockshox meanwhile is releasing better parts, functional shocks (who would have thought) and relatively reliable parts. huh.

BINGO!

Meanwhile Fox has been smart all along. No plastic, cautious offer of a new model or feature. No real fluctuation in Fox quality.

And Manitou still sucks ass, even if they do have a $2,000 USD new DH fork.

 

[IH8Rice]

By the looks of the pic, the base compression valve adjuster is a needle bypas adjust...so LSC/bleed.

Soooo, about Marz......
They have refused to provided any and all tech info (from the simplest procedures for changing oil in a fork, how to change a spring, even the basic (correct) descriptions of their own products in their 'manuals'.....to info like shock oil viscosity, res PSI, proper fork PSI, etc)...for the last 7 years.

How long ago was it that they promised that the Roco would be user re-buildable and they would provide tuning/shims/tech info/etc. This was THE benefit used to sell the Roco...and surprise, surprise it never materialized. Does anyone really believe (again) that they will completely reverse this company wide policy just like that???

I suppose they could have a great fork.... but with multiple years of no documentation, no tech support, unwanted and unfunctional features, poor designs/engineering, and horrible QC... I have a hard time believing it.

this post sums up the past few years of their product.

their "recommended air pressures" for the 888 ATA is hilarious. with their "recommended pressure" for my fat ass, i couldnt even move the fork...or even figure out what the knob was underneath the rebound until i looked it up online


i will though, probably buy this fork ...cause im a sucker for bling

 

[S.K.C.]

Yep - davep is pretty much spot-on.

I totally forgot about the details regarding the Roco. They DID say that it would be user serviceable and have available shim kits courtesy of Marz - but there wasn't sufficient online tech. support for guys who wanted to rebuild/service their Roco and get the shim kits... shame. They really need to put this info online. You can call MarzUSA and they'll be more than happy to help you - but some kind of online database for tuning/service would help everyone.

It does seem like Marz's policy has been to keep the internals somewhat inaccessible (a BlackBox if you will :biggrin: )to the customer/end user for their forks and their shocks. What's crazy is that the guys at Go-Ride probably have the most in-depth 888 service manual out there - and they don't even PRODUCE the forks... I have used their service guide on more than one occasion to rebuild my old 05' 888 RC back in the day.

It would be nice to see Marz take things in a new direction and place some of the power in the customer's hands to tune their suspension pieces but... who knows. I know that SRAM would definitely NOT approve of some of the tuning suggestions that are out there on the web due to the fear of litigation if something went wrong. But if Marz could create a safe set of parameters in which the customer could tune their suspension without making the fork/shock dangerous to ride - and sell shim kits to customers for the specific purpose of allowing them to explore those parameters as set by Marz... they might have something...

RS's QC has definitely improved from the way it used to be - and I do think that some riders out there have made the switch to Boxxers as a result. Funny how the pendulum swings... :biggrin:

...and as far as looks go: I miss the sculpted edges and lines of the old Flat-Black lowers and clean looking logos from the 05' - 07' 888's... It made the forks look badass, like a weapon... something that meant business...

 

[William42]

BINGO!

Meanwhile Fox has been smart all along. No plastic, cautious offer of a new model or feature. No real fluctuation in Fox quality.

And Manitou still sucks ass, even if they do have a $2,000 USD new DH fork.

lthumbsdown: Sponsored riders on the internet suck. Sponsored riders in general actually tend to be full of sh1t. Either that or you need to take fox's balls out of your mouth. Fox has their share of problems too, but rather then blast the company for it despite the fact that I'm not running it and never have run it, I'll keep my mouth shut.

 

[davep]

Fox springs broke so that means Marzocchi springs will break too? This thread has some of the finest internet blather I've read in a while.

Do you really think they are going to spend the kind of money needed to put very high quality (surface treated stress relieved Beta C) ti springs in a fork? Look at how much these equivalent (in material and design) parts cost for a shock. Would you pay $500 more for ti springs in a fork to save 1/3 lb??? There is just not that much you can do to a spring design when in such a (internally and externally) confined space (smaller than the 40). Taking the kind of weight that has been claimed out of a spring will require thinner wire and steeper pitch angles. Both of these will raise the stress levels dramatically.

This is the same company that builds a single spring rate for all riders in many of their forks...non-annodized internals..crimped 'cartrages'..etc.

 

[TGR]

do they still have the ugly ass lowers with cheesy graphics?

 

[Huck Banzai]

the pendulum swings as far as the banter allows.

 

[Kanye West]

So I was tempted to try and correct some of the totally backwards BS in this thread since I've checked out the fork for myself, but I'm going to let the product speak for itself. Not worth my time and I'd rather ruffle feathers elsewhere.

 

[mandown]

The market is maturing, if not already mature. The technology isn't gonna be ground breaking. The things that will get people to ride products are price points, durability, serviceability, and customer service. Keep searching for the "magic ticket" that will make you that much faster and the technology improvements will trickle down from the pro rigs to the consumer markets, but don't expect the same improvements as going from the days of 3" of elastomer travel to 4" of coil and oil. For that matter, the air fork market is even coming to maturity. The chamber volumes and ramp-up controls still need some tuning, but they are pretty close to as good as needed for the average bear.

 

[blender]

The chamber volumes and ramp-up controls still need some tuning, but they are pretty close to as good as needed for the average bear.

Don't you mean buffalo?

 

[Kanye West]

Don't you mean flat-hucking buffalo?

Fixed.