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2013 Lyrik DH Solo Air R2C2

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by ZHendo, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. ZHendo

    ZHendo Turbo Monkey

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    What's up guys,

    Lots of big changes happening to my bike right now because I'm going to be losing my industry connections fairly soon, so I wanted to take advantage of replacing some parts while I could. Alongside new wheels, I decided it was time to ditch my sticky and finicky 36 TALAS RLC, which had caused loads of headaches and never handled well when getting pushed hard. I heard lots of good things about the Lyrik DH's MiCo cartridge, and my familiarity with working on Rockshox forks paired with a great deal made it almost a no brainer.

    After doing a little more research, I've heard that they can be a little difficult with setup and that the stock Rockshox advice is not too helpful. Anyone here have any advice?
     

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  2. Bikerpunk241

    Bikerpunk241 Monkey

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    I run a lot of LSC and almost no HSC on mine. I weigh 140 but run it firm as I tend to ride more front heavy. Full Setup:
    Solo Air - 65psi
    LSC - 11 clicks from -
    HSC - 2 clicks from -
    Rebound medium range

    You'll want to check your oil levels from the factory as they are generally off. I run minimum oil in the damper, otherwise have trouble getting full travel, and check lubrication oil every month.

    Hope this helps a little.
     
    #2 -   Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  3. TWeerts

    TWeerts Monkey

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    sup ZHendo, its been a while.

    the answer is always moar shimz. but seriously...

    fwir, the mico cartridges have a very narrow degree of control. (ie max and min positions have little difference) This stems from the relatively light valving that RS specs as stock. one benefit of the MiCo cartridge over the MoCo is that it is re-valveable, which can provide both a firmer ride through braking influences and turning (read: more resistant to diving during braking and turning) as well as provide a wider range of control.

    the stock shim stack is a 2-stage(i think...) pyramid, meaning there is a single progression from wide to narrow shimz, twice.(like this: wide>narrow>wide>narrow), some people have turned that into a 1-stage pyramid(wide>narrow), which yields a much wider range of adjustment.

    here is some reference material:

    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/totem-diving-when-braking-pedaling-rolling-off-rocks-254389/

    check the links in udi's post, #7. post #9 has a suggestion for a new arrangement

    mtbr shows how to access the shimz:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/tune-your-mission-control-high-speed-shim-stack-how-guide-pics-541403.html
     
    #3 -   Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  4. ZHendo

    ZHendo Turbo Monkey

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    Thanks TWeerts, it has been a while, but judging by your signature you're still as much in the riding game as ever. Good to see.

    I'm excited to get this fork and see what the compression valving it like on the 2013 versions, but I doubt it will be any different. The adjustments on my 36 TALAS really sucked, so I'm pretty excited to run this simpler air spring and have the potential for revalving the fork if needed. I tend to ride fairly centered on my bike, but the RC4 and Push linkage combo on my Nomad C is so friggin' good that this fork will have to really step it up over my 36.
     
  5. TWeerts

    TWeerts Monkey

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    Good luck. dont be afraid to crack into those shimz and move them around. one of those links above has a suggestion for a better stack from udi, but im sure some research would yield some more setups. maybe even try looking in the MX community for some generalities (like 2stage v 1 stage valving, linear progression v non linear).

    i wanted simple, too - so i got a van (which happens to have the added benefit of being powered by a much more ideal spring). no problems with the control ranges for me right outta the box.

    on another note, apparently fox is dropping all van lines except for 40 and 36/180. imo, this is just silly.
     
  6. ZHendo

    ZHendo Turbo Monkey

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    we'll see how the compression range is on this bad boy out of the box, it is a 2013 so the valving *could* be a touch different. i'm actually pretty stoked that this fork has such an easily accessible shim stack, even though its a bummer that the stock valving may be weak.
     
  7. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    I was looking at getting one of these and wanted to reduce it to 150. Sram said something about needing a different floor plate and it not being available. Is there a way to do this or way around it? Don't mean to derail the thread.
     
  8. ZHendo

    ZHendo Turbo Monkey

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    I'm fairly sure the Solo Air version (the only one available from QBP for 2013) has spacers you can move to drop the travel, but it may only be adjustable down to 160mm. The fork has a fairly low A/C height, so I doubt you'd notice the extra 10mm of travel if you dropped it to 160.
     
  9. davec113

    davec113 Monkey

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    I replaced my '09 36 Float with a '12 Lyric 170 Solo Air and it is a better fork. The new RS dampers feel really nice.
     
  10. TWeerts

    TWeerts Monkey

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    tl;dr travel can be adjusted via a simple spacer, as shown by red in the image below, as tall as you want to lower the travel by. this has been done successfully without any issue, but be warned. it may cause different stresses within the fork, and for all i know, it may void your warranty. (may)



    with an air fork, all you need to do is pull the stanchion tube further into the lowers, limiting the air volume and therefor the travel. I have seen this done. you can adjust the travel limitlessly by adding spacers the thickness you want to lower the travel between the air spring push rod and the stanchion bottom.

    here is a crude schematic:


    black is stanchion/upper
    gray is the lowers
    green is air spring push rod (i assume this is the floor plate sram is talking about)
    red is your spacer (sram makes ones that match the push rod diameter)
    blue is the push rod thingy that extends down to the bottom of the lowers and the foot bolt

    I have seen these forks lowered by simply adding a spacer there. in your case, you would want a 20mm spacer to make your 170 a 150. the idea is simple: force the stanchion tubes to ride lower. the thing that makes this easy is the fact that gas fills whatever container it occupies. RS manufactures 'all travel spacers' in 20mm sizes. (this is not what they are calling the floor plate, im not even 100% positive what the floor plate is)

    Sram says new floor plate, and i assume that is the green. I can see the spacer placing more/different stress concentrations on that plate. could potentially cause problems (most likely mode of failure would be fatigue stress? maybe?) last time i asked sram about this, they told me i need a new air spring lower/push rod assy, a shorter one. this would also force the stanchion to ride lower in the lowers, but costs much more.

    some people have said that without a new push rod assy, the bottom out resistance of the fork is lessened. i disagree. whatever bottom out functions were there before are still present, the bottom out forces are simply transfered through the all travel spacer. again, this may cause new, different, and more stress.
     
    #10 -   Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  11. Bikerpunk241

    Bikerpunk241 Monkey

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    Dropping it only 20mm shouldn't be an issue, I helped a buddy do that to his Lyrik and he hasn't had any issues with it. The only issues I've seen are when you try to go more than about 40mm, then it requires some customization and creativity to keep the fork from feeling wallowy throughout the travel.
     
  12. TheMontashu

    TheMontashu Pourly Tatteued Jeu

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    Zhendo, hit me up if you need parts.
     
  13. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    Ok just got a used 2011 solo air mission control DH. Pulled it apart to access the spring, added a 20mm travel spacer under the 10mm stock spacer to reduce to 140mm travel. It was pretty straight forward and similar to working on my boxxer and revelation.
    Test ride and I have two problems-
    1. There is a "dead" 3-5mm at the top of the travel with 175psi in the spring. Kinda clunky feeling, definitely feels dumb.
    2. I swear the damper feels like it is doing nothing at all. Checked the RS service manual, and the two main things are oils height and the glide ring. Glide ring looks fine, so I added more oil to the compression damper, hoping it was just low. LSC still feels no change from full on-off. Now the HSC is functioning, I can feel/ hear it.

    So my questions are- any idea what this dead spot is? And, could I be low enough into the travel to render the LSC useless? And if so, what are the "tricks" to make it work again (bikerpunk)?

    I'm beginning to regret getting rid of my revelation, but I'm sure once I get this working the chassis will be a lot more confidence inspiring for me.

    Thanks for any input
     
  14. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    ^^^ TL;DR: Bought a used 2011 Lyric solo air rc2 dh. Lowered it to 140mm travel, and I want to know if lowering it is the reason for my LSC not feeling like its working at all, or if the damping is so light that you can't tell the difference beteen full off/on anyway. Also what are the "tricks" to get the LSC working if lowering it is the problem?

    I don't really want to bust into the shimstack and start adding shimz if it's not necessary and/or won't solve the problem that I may have created.
     
    #14 -   Feb 27, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  15. Bikerpunk241

    Bikerpunk241 Monkey

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    Check your PMs.....
     
  16. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    Maybe it didn't send?
     
  17. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    Anyone have input on this? Nothing so far, which I'm surprised no one has any knowledge on this? About to throw in the towel and take it to a RS service center which I really don't want to do!
     
  18. marshalolson

    marshalolson Turbo Monkey

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    Try putting heavier wt fork oil in there?
     
  19. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    Can't comment on your exact fork, but generally the MiCo dampers are valved so softly that you'll basically feel very little damping without fully closing the HSC and running a fair bit of LSC. Adding a few shims or doubling up the existing ones will generally bring the damper to life, and allow a more useful range of external adjustment.

    For the solo air, keep in mind that it equalizes neg/pos pressures at topout. When you pull it apart you'll see how it works, either it's a schrader valve that gets depressed at topout or a wave washer that holds a valve sprung open until topout. It's important that your spacer system doesn't hinder this operation. If that's all good, I'm not sure what's causing your problem.

    What you do in the spring side shouldn't affect the LSC, if anything that would only reduce the max amount of oil needed in the damper for it to work. I'd say your damper issue is completely unrelated to what you did in the spring leg, if that helps.
     
  20. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    Cool, that's helpful to know that the lowering should not affect the LSC. Sometimes it's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that dampers aren't necessarily position sensitive.
    If that's the case, then I think I'm going to beef up the shimstack, which I'm excited to try. I've never re-shimmed any of my suspension, but I'm thinking a RS fork will be a nice place to start.

    I'm going to pull apart the air spring again and see if the spacers are messing up the air pressure equalizing. I had no idea to look for that, so thank you for the pointers!
     
    #20 -   Mar 1, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013