2017 / 2018 - What's your whip? New, or just new toys for the dependable steed?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by mykel, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. jackalope

    jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

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    He's got a cache of orange stripe Maxxis mobsters for those occasions. He's an odd bird that one.
     
    #761 -   Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  2. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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    Cool. I derp'd on the bike. Its a Range, not a sight. The Sight looks like a great bike though.
     
  3. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    Ah, nothing like being sandwiched by udi and @kidwoo

    I got a 2015/16 TALAS RC2 650b 160. I came from and am back at a 2010 Vanilla 26 160 with 2015 retrofit upgrade RC2 inverted Cartridge. I'm either using too much travel in really steep sections or having a rough time on fast chatter, compared to the Vanilla. Now I just have to find some time to transplant the coil into the 650b chassis.
    Also, offset difference is quite noticeable. That's why I am thinking about going 1.5° slacker headangle wise.

    Did you do it @Udi ?
     
  4. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Just put the 650b lowers on the Vanilla. That way you a) get the shorter offset of the older crown and b) don't have two sets of gouged up stanchions that you can't run an air spring in.
     
  5. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    Aren't they longer? My measurements told me so...

    Tire clearance was one of the reasons to get a 650b 36, I was not able to run a fender between the 26" fork and my 650b ex471 with a Shorty 2.3 and shit weather season was shit this year.
     
    #765 -   Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  6. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Which part? I haven't checked a 2010, but for the 2015+ chassis at least, the stanchions and internals are all interchangeable across wheel sizes. Only two things change:
    1. They make more tire clearance by moving the dropouts further down on the lowers for bigger wheels
    2. The offset at the crown increases on the CSUs meant for bigger wheels
     
  7. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    The lowers. Distance between lower bolt holes and dust wiper seals is longer on 2015+ models compared to prior models. I thought the reason was more bushing overlap. At the same time the crown was made lower to keep a relatively low a2c height.
     
  8. Metamorphic

    Metamorphic Monkey

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    Here's my sweet 2017 whips....this happened:


    So then this happened since I had already decided to ride on Saturday:


    ^^^ Lower Black in Pisgah at the end of a gravel 40 miler.....oh I hate myself.

    Hopefully Banshee gives me the hookup and I'll be able to contribute some actually shreddy material to this thread soon....in the mean time give me and my skinny tires a break would ya?
     
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  9. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Ah. Fox doesn't have drawings for pre-2015 forks on their site anymore so I couldn't check. Nevermind then.
     
  10. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

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    and this is perfect evidence of why the re-working of lower black a few years back is trbl. (well, that and the fact that they just the punji-style cleared brush on either side of the trail).

    apologies for the off-topic rant. back to regularly scheduled shreddy pic posting.
     
  11. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    9SE here is supposedly working on a coil conversion. What you're describing actually sounds like some of the worst floats I've ridden. Set sag to maintain a good ride height and all compliance goes out the window. If I ever get that coil from him, I'll send you my talas cartridge to try. There's not a single person who's ridden one of the bikes I have with the talas carts who hasn't gone and ordered on. The 160 is pretty progressive so that suprises me that's your problem. The 180 I have does like to blow through it's travel a lot easier. I run both at a true 15% sag for what it's worth. I see a lot of folks that think they run about 20 but actually run about 5.

    You're absolutely positive you have a 2015? I think that's the year they changed them. Take a pic if you take it out.

    I'm with you on the offsets. I like it climbing but definitely not descending.
     
    #771 -   Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  12. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Standard issues. Bontrager G5, minion dhf or dhr2, butchers, with a slaughter on the rear for trail bikes. Basically tires that drift really predictably. Because you're not getting away from it where I live.
     
  13. Bike078

    Bike078 Monkey

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    Thanks man. Off topic but what do you mean by "true" sag?
     
    #773 -   Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  14. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    figuring out the math and measuring while standing up
     
  15. Bike078

    Bike078 Monkey

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    ^^^I also try to figure out the maths while standing up.
     
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  16. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    I wouldn't say it's as bad as the 2015 Floats, but (noticable) worse than my Vanilla. I just couldn't find a setup matching or nearly as decent as the Van. I even took the shock pump with me on 2 rides and rode one trail multiple times.
    It is way better than all its predecessors, granted.


    Yes, I'm dead sure it is a 2015 or 2016 one, code on the backside of the chassis says so and I already took out the two 5 mm spacers from the TALAS chamber to achieve the full 40 mm travel adjust. Which by the way is the real cool thing about it while climbing on the Reign with its non ideal SA, surprise, surprise.

    If @92SE-R comes around with the coil kit I will buy one myself. I think it should be possible to build something myself. The distance between the lowers bottom and the stanchions bottom should be 160 mm. What is different is the length of the stanchions. So the 2010 coil will be too short and I guess the top out plate won't fit in the 2015 stanchions too. So what is needed is a plunger shaft and top out plate fitting in the new uppers, a top cap and some kind of spacer for the extra length. I know of somebody else figuring out the proper things and measurements atm. ;)

    Maybe somebody finds/has some drawings with the correct specs and cares to share?

    My real problem is time.
     
    #776 -   Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  17. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    @HAB Like Flo says, the stanchions are longer on the 2015+ 36, and the lowers are deeper. The reason is (as he says) greater bushing overlap, and they actually did it to support 170mm+ travel in the same chassis as the 160mm (you might remember the old 180mm 36 was different to all the others, lowers extended below the dropouts to take the stanchion).

    @Flo33
    I'm waiting patiently for a topcap from Vorsprung before I attempt my conversion. Hopefully soon!
    The coil length should be fine (just add spacers above spring), but what's different about the top out plate and seat in the stanchion? I'm guessing you've measured a difference, would the plate need to be lathed down or is it too small? I think / hope these will be easy things to solve. I'll update when I try it with mine, just don't want to pull down a working fork until all parts are here.

    There's really no escape from this - every year Fox/RS release some air spring update, every year I try those forks and they have two key problems - one is friction that varies wildly over a practical service interval, and the other is a spring curve that is never quite right, and results in requiring more compression damping than a coil fork to keep supported on steep tracks (= inferior traction), or increasing the spring rate beyond an ideal level (= inferior traction). None of the aftermarket solutions completely solve those issues. I think you're an objective guy and you won't be able to delude yourself into thinking any of the current air options are better. If I had to pick one I'd probably take the latest evol float 36 and dump a luftkappe in it, but it's really not the same.

    I'm sad to say that even some industry members who I once respected highly have jumped ship on this issue, but anyone who is actually still mating coils with the latest chassis advances (which do bring benefits in friction etc) and making any required compensations (eg. HBO damper if needed, I'm personally fine without) will know there is still absolutely no comparison - particularly when compared back-to-back in an apples:apples scenario.

    The good news is it's not that hard to solve these things ourselves for a one-off application, I think we'll figure this out with cheap/lightweight Fox parts.
     
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  18. Happymtb.fr

    Happymtb.fr Monkey

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    Does some of you have some time on an air spring with double positive air chambers like the Manitou IRT, SD components DVC, Chickadeehill AWK?
    I have an IRT on my hardtail fatbike so that is not a fair comparison but it's very sensible of the top, not so divy and resist bottom out quite ok for a 120mm fork. I am curious about what it would feel like on a normal FS bike.
     
  19. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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    Some guys around here have Mattocs with IRTs fitted. @jonKranked is one of them IIRC.
     
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  20. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    Yeah ridden the IRT and SD DVC (Simon is actually a buddy of mine, and he sponsors a couple of the guys I ride with), along with the Luftkappe in numerous forks now, Corset, etc. Also ridden the new Evol Fox fork springs, the only thing I haven't tried is the new Lyrik but somehow I doubt I'm about to be surprised. Some of these are better than others, none are better than a good old coil in a modern / current chassis. The consistency over a service interval and across varying conditions is a big area where they don't even come close - something that the "freshly built" marketing numbers never illustrate.

    Don't get me wrong - I don't think any of this gear is bad, things improve each year and some of the aftermarket upgrades offer noticeable benefits. But it's also not the same, and as @PJivan pointed out recently, every year we'll keep seeing the "almost like a coil" and "reduced initial rate with less mid-stroke fall off" claims, it's for a good reason.
     
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  21. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    Yea, I've got one.
     
  22. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    Random fork question, a while back someone posted a link to a guys website/store who services and resells old marz forks.... I neglected to bookmark it, does anyone remember what it is?
     
  23. gratefulbiker

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    https://www.mtbforksbymark.com/

    This might be what you're looking for.
     
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  24. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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  25. Happymtb.fr

    Happymtb.fr Monkey

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    Nice!
    Do you like it? Is it better or just different from some other forks you have?
     
  26. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    "According to Jon Cancellier, RockShox's product manager, “Coil is the buzzword right now, but I think we can really make an air spring that rides like a coil, but then you have the ability to fine-tune it in one, two psi increments, and play with tokens without needing to play with oil volumes or complicated bump stops.”"

    So there.

    Seriously though, no more coil Boxxer Team either now. Bugger.
     
  27. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

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    This arrived today

    DSC_0859.JPG

    Can you tell what it is yet?
    Whatsinside.jpg
     

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  28. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    Rear wheel in line with frame - not a Commencal.
     
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  29. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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    Do you always open bike boxes the worst way possible or were you just trying to create an atmosphere of suspense?
     
  30. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    i͓̽t͓̽ i͓̽s͓̽ fu͓̽l͓̽l͓̽ o͓̽f s͓̽t͓̽a͓̽r͓̽s͓̽
    Looks like an Ibis flexy.
     
  31. jackalope

    jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

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    Gary is old school...I'm going with a 2005 Trek Liquid with a fresh paint job.

    Ya know, something with proper geo.
     
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  32. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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    Nevermind the skinny tires, look at those fuckin' shoes!

    RIP Spitfire.

    Still kinda miss mine...
     
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  33. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

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    The box was stapled at either end. there's no opening at the top usual bike boxes. It's massive so the shop can roll the bikes in complete to ship them.
     
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  34. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

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    *Session 10
     
  35. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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    Its a Giant......Liv. :brows:
     
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  36. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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    Got it. Now, let's get down to business. Post the unboxing to YouTube so I can make a reaction video!!!

    [/millennial mode]
     
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  37. buckoW

    buckoW Turbo Monkey

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    My new Genius in Bex yesterday.
     
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  38. Bike078

    Bike078 Monkey

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  39. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

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    You absolutely sure about that? The first bit I mean! ;)

    R I P.jpg

    R I P - E.jpg

    E-Boooost.jpg
     
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  40. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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