2nd Broken Epic ... LBS = teh SUCK.

binary visions · Nov 7, 2005

Ouch. Sounds like it's time to find a new LBS - if my LBS pulled that with me, I'd never go back.

All an LBS has to offer now is customer service. There are too many great online shops to buy from now, and if they won't give discounts to a loyal customer, then f**k 'em. Buy a bike manual (I'd recommend Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance), buy your own tools, and flip 'em the finger. Find another LBS to handle your warrenty claims.

skatetokil · Nov 7, 2005

Indeed. My shop does most work on the spot for free and I dont even race.

binary visions · Nov 7, 2005

Uhh, I just re-read that and if you're wearing shop gear and doing well in the races, but still paying full retail for parts and labor (on top of being a loyal, paying customer), then you're crazy if you give that shop another nickel of your business. That's insane.

Meet with the owner, give him his jersey back, tell him where he can stick it, and inform him that you'll never again recommend his shop to anyone.

edit: As Echo so wisely pointed out, I jumped to the conclusion that the shop is actually doing some kind of sponsership deal with you. If they're not, I'd still say that full retail for a repeat racing customer is lousy, but not as bad as if you're sponsered.

edit 2: I've got a great idea. It's a jump to conclusions mat. It'll be a mat, with different conclusions on it, that you can jump to.

Echo · Nov 7, 2005

A couple points to ponder:

First, If you are expecting something from the shop in return for wearing their jersey at races, you need to have that worked out ahead of time. Most decent sized sized shops sell jerseys with their logo on them, and they damn sure don't do free labor for everyone who buys one. If you are riding for the shop, get a sponsorship agreement, otherwise you have nothing to complain about.

Second, I don't know what weight qualifies one as a "clydesdale", but I'm guessing it's over 200lbs. I personally would not trust an Epic frame for a heavy rider. Get something stronger, even if it weighs a little more. Big dudes break lightweight bikes, no way around it.

Third, when you leave your bike off for repairs, find out how much it's going to cost. Most likely they have their prices posted somewhere near the service area. It's not very realistic to assume the mechanic is going to not follow the price sheet.

-dustin · Nov 7, 2005

wow, that shop ****ed you over. no way in hell i'd promote them.

--edit--

on yeah, assuming they're actually sponsoring you.

Jeremy R · Nov 7, 2005

Echo said:
A couple points to ponder:

First, If you are expecting something from the shop in return for wearing their jersey at races, you need to have that worked out ahead of time. Most decent sized sized shops sell jerseys with their logo on them, and they damn sure don't do free labor for everyone who buys one. If you are riding for the shop, get a sponsorship agreement, otherwise you have nothing to complain about.

Second, I don't know what weight qualifies one as a "clydesdale", but I'm guessing it's over 200lbs. I personally would not trust an Epic frame for a heavy rider. Get something stronger, even if it weighs a little more. Big dudes break lightweight bikes, no way around it.

Third, when you leave your bike off for repairs, find out how much it's going to cost. Most likely they have their prices posted somewhere near the service area. It's not very realistic to assume the mechanic is going to not follow the price sheet.

I agree.
A sponsorship agreement would take care of all this.

Talk to the owner and see if you have a sponsorship at all,
and try to work it out.
If he is rude as well, then walk into the shop on a busy Saturday morning wearing nothing but their jersey on your big clydesdale self.
Then remove the jersey, and proceed to "floss" with it until all the customers leave. Then, you will be "teh win."

sanjuro · Nov 7, 2005

Warranties are a funny one for a shop. While no shop wants to see their customers out of luck on a broken bike, there is labor involved with warranties, which a shop may or may not feel is their responsibility.

The reality with most shops is that they are not cash cows, and it sounded like about 2 hours worth of labor done on your bike, from installing the new wishbone to adjusting the rear derailleur. A promise of future purchases won't pay this month's rent. Sometimes even past purchases won't guarantee you free labor on very legitmate claims

I have seen situations like this in many of the shops I have worked at. The owners are balancing good will vs. financial loss, and, frankly, with a customer who has broken the same bike twice, probably they are thinking about recouping the labor on both repairs.

Also, racing on an ultra light bike is probably a bad idea for a clydesdale. I am 200+ and I ride a Kona Dawg, an overbuilt XC bike. While the Epic has other features, like the Brain Shock, is it light because the tubing walls are thinner than your standard trail frame.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to feel raw about this situation. I hope my comments can give you some insights to owning a shop.

Echo · Nov 7, 2005

You should certainly say something to him if you feel you weren't treated fairly. Perhaps it's as simple as, the owner wasn't there when you picked up the bike, and the mechanics aren't authorized to discount repair work without his authorization.

Or maybe he's a dick and doesn't like you.

Or maybe he's a moron and doesn't realize the value of people standing on a podium with his jersey on.

Only you can find out

RhinofromWA · Nov 7, 2005

sanjuro said:
Also, racing on an ultra light bike is probably a bad idea for a clydesdale. I am 200+ and I ride a Kona Dawg, an overbuilt XC bike. While the Epic has other features, like the Brain Shock, is it light because the tubing walls are thinner than your standard trail frame.

uhhh yeah....you are a larger than average MTBr. That is great. But if you are breaking lightewight racign machines it is time to look elsewhere.

I am fat....not even clydesdale class material and I would understand after the 1st break that I should be catious and after the second one I would tell myself that I need something "more" than the current model you have can offer.

It isn't the shops fault that the frame broke. And frankly the parts to replace as a result of the brake is not something they are responsible for...IMO. The labor bit can rub you the wrong way, if you think the shop owes you anything. I don't know your arrangement, so that is between you and the shop.

Bottom line: You got a bike that isn't suited for you and your riding style. It is time for something else.

Realistically, I would contact the owner "PROFESSIONALLY" and see if maybe you shouldn't have been charged the labor. If there was a mistake you can be reimbursed....if the missunderstanding was on yourside than I hope you feel embarrassed about getting all heated up over the annoying incident. I know I would be.

I would not burn bridges there, because you never know when you might need their help in the future. I don't know how many shops you frequent in your area, but you probably chose this shop for a reason.

You are angry with $64 of labor (wich you should do yourself anyway...that way the only idiot mechanic is yourself. That is my moto

) I don't know what the parts price breaks you were looking for would be.....don't care actually. All the parts are your responsibility to replace, but a discount would have been nice.

Just don't go in there (or call) with an attitude and angry or you will get nothing.

SkaredShtles · Nov 7, 2005

stoney98 said:
<snip>and rock a whopping 13 or so % bodyfat.

Who says $hit like this? :think:

Is Stoney in this picture somewhere?

blt2ride · Nov 7, 2005

binary visions said:
Ouch. Sounds like it's time to find a new LBS - if my LBS pulled that with me, I'd never go back.

All an LBS has to offer now is customer service. There are too many great online shops to buy from now, and if they won't give discounts to a loyal customer, then f**k 'em. Buy a bike manual (I'd recommend Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance), buy your own tools, and flip 'em the finger. Find another LBS to handle your warrenty claims.

Without a doubt, it sounds like you need change bike shops. Find a good Specialized dealer, and forget about the clowns you're been dealing with. To be honest, I've never really heard too many negative things about Specialized's service department, sounds like you did get kind of a bad deal...

OGRipper · Nov 7, 2005

We don't know a lot of things here, such as this guy's attitude, how much he really gives back to the shop, etc. I tend to agree with Echo, the wrench was probably just doing his job. Too many bro deals can kill a shop. Plus, the mechanic might have been working on commission (in part anyway) and just figured this dude can work it out with the owner or he's gonna pay.

And um dude did you really need them to replace your tire and a gear cable? I'd charge you full labor for that stuff too.

Have you ever dropped off a car for service without finding out in advance what you are going to be charged?

binary visions · Nov 7, 2005

OGRipper said:
Too many bro deals can kill a shop.

I agree, but he claimed he spent 20k over the course of 3 years. If any LBS charged me full price for all parts and labor after I'd showed that level of support, I'd tell them to get bent. We're not talking about "bro deals" as in, "Hey man, gimme a discount, I live in this town", we're talking about giving a reasonable discount to an extremely loyal customer who has spent a lot of money and will continue to spend more.

As I said, all an LBS can offer is good service and customer satisfaction. They can't match the online prices. If they lose that service and the customer walks away unhappy, there's a good chance that customer is going to buy a few tools and start making purchases online.

ridetoofast · Nov 7, 2005

yeah you definately need to 'go to the matresses' with this guy.

i've been really lucky. 4 broken frames, broken xtr crank (past warranty), tacoed wheel (on a bike i hadnt even finished paying yet) and my LBS has warrantied all of it, everytime. the owner knows i send them business all the time, and on several occasion have sold bikes while waiting for something on my bike to be done.
call this dood out, tell him how you feel, diplomatically of course, and if he doesn't come round then haul ass and be SURE to tell him that the next 20K is going to his fiercest competitor...

pnj · Nov 7, 2005

some people make enough money to pay others to do work for them. be this work plumbing, wiring their house, fixing their car, etc.

others don't make that kind of money or don't want to bother with the hassle of doing the work themselves.

I would suggest;

1. buy your own tools
2. learn how to use them

also, things break. if you beat the crap out of them, what do you expect?

when one thing breaks, it may cause other things to break. when other things break, don't complain.

if you want parts installed, it's going to cost you.

I wouldn't say your out of line. just don't expect the LBS to help you.

LBS's suck. order online and laugh as you watch the 'out of business' signs start to appear in their windows.

OGRipper · Nov 7, 2005

binary visions said:
I agree, but he claimed he spent 20k over the course of 3 years. If any LBS charged me full price for all parts and labor after I'd showed that level of support, I'd tell them to get bent. We're not talking about "bro deals" as in, "Hey man, gimme a discount, I live in this town", we're talking about giving a reasonable discount to an extremely loyal customer who has spent a lot of money and will continue to spend more.

As I said, all an LBS can offer is good service and customer satisfaction. They can't match the online prices. If they lose that service and the customer walks away unhappy, there's a good chance that customer is going to buy a few tools and start making purchases online.

BV I agree with a lot of this but we don't have enough information to say. The owner sounds like a tool, that much is for sure, and enough people here have said so. But if you ever worked in a shop that deals with racers you know that it's hard to opine on this situation without more detail. Just based on his initial posts it seems he has high expectations for freebies on labor. And as you might know, attitude and expectations go a long way at most shops. I am not saying this guy had a bad attitude, I am saying we don't know.

maxyedor · Nov 7, 2005

at one of the shops i worked at we hade several locals on kickback sponsorship wich sounds like what you think you got going on, but theirs was at the least a verbal agreemen't. They should have covered you on the labor fo the dog-bone but the rest of the stuff is kind of a push. Now if they treat you like this constantly then yes go get yourself a new shop, but you may think you are sponsored when realy they just know your name, I see this all the time. If you always pull good results then shop around creat a resume' and try to sell yourself as an athlete that can help the shop expand, not just a good customer.
Also buy some tools and learn how to do a little work by yourself, you deserve to be charged for a tire install.

lesson to be learned, you're not sponsered unless you have a signed contract, if you don't like what they charge you, go somewhere else, even successfull shops love rider loyalty.

one final note the epic is for 145-175 pound rage, get a light trail-bike that can handle your size

Kntr · Nov 7, 2005

SkaredShtles said:
Who says $hit like this?

Is Stoney in this picture somewhere?

There he is.... I see him.

JRogers · Nov 8, 2005

Well, whatever the case, those prices seem a bit steep for them fixing stuff that broke when a product they sold you snapped. Not that they have any moral or legal obligation to help you out in that respect, but I have a feeling most shops would. There's a lot of variation with that kind of stuff among shops, though.

The shop I frequent around here, for example, is good in that respect. A bolt slipped out of my Giant VT bent a few linkage parts and other bolts, the shock once got stuck in its travel and had to be sent to Manitou and once a bearing blew up in a link and I had to replace the bearing and link itself....they basically installed 95% of this stuff and I think I have payed them a total of 25$ or less including shipping etc. The most I've bought from them is a headset; never a bike. Mostly I get tubes and stuff.

That type of thing is not typical, though. Make a bit of a stink over it, I say...

Bicyclist · Nov 8, 2005

$9 labor to change a tire? That's really steep.

blue · Nov 8, 2005

Bicyclist said:
$9 labor to change a tire? That's really steep.

Ehhh...I don't think charging people ridiculous amounts of money to change tires/toobs is bad...I mean come on...only makes them learn

I hated changing tires and toobs as a wrench, such a goddamned pain in the ass.

sanjuro · Nov 8, 2005

Blieb said:
Ahhhh ... yeah I suppose a sponsor agreement would make things less "gray" ... I'm really just a recreational rider who has had great success in the series the last 2 years.

... a few weeks ago he threw some $ at me ... nothing big ... $100. Which doesn't cover one race weekend between travel, entry, hotel & food. (8 races in the series)

Last year I wore the jersey, made mention of the shop in a couple newspaper articles ... etc ...

I recognize that bike shops often time are more like charity centers. This guy runs 2 shops and another completely different business. He's not hurting. He's planning on a 3rd shop, I hear.

I weigh in between 210-225 (depends what time of year bulk vs ride) ... I know "clydesdale" stuff isn't as glamorous ... but it's a tough class ... most of the guys are just tall, not fatties at all ...

*shrug* ... I think after this season I'm going to take it easy on my back for a while to heal up ... but I definitely need to say SOMETHING to this guy ... obviously I'm getting walked on for a reason.

Weight should not hold you back. I came in 3rd in my state's crit championship, beating my rival who probably had 6% body fat. If let weight hold me back, I probably never ride again.

But sponsorship is a very funny issue. Many shop owners question its value, and with good reason. Considering the majority of shop customers entry level riders who do not race, sponsoring racing has less Return On Investment than people think. Many racers have sponsorship and equipment deals, as well enough mechanical expertise to service their own bikes; making them less profitable customers.

Neverthless I still believe sponsorship is important, even if it does not make dollars and sense. It is a good will thing, and the most successful teams, like Toga in NYC, will be good advertising.

Specifically about your case, I do not know if you got jobbed. I am sure you could work it out with the owner, but the jersey on your back does not guarantee you a deal, unless you are sure your victories bring in the customers.

hooples3 · Nov 8, 2005

i dont even race and i get better deals from my LBS than that

douglas · Nov 8, 2005

you all are busting on the owner, BUT he wasn't even there!!!

1/talk to the owner about this repair & sponsorship
2/buy a beefier bike
3/buy some tools
4/fix your own rig

2nd Broken Epic ... LBS = teh SUCK.

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