Anyone had any experience with these? How are you finding them?
888 Ata Wc
- Thread starter ronan
- Start date
the 08 is sick once the par chamber is taken out. smooth as hell with no sticking. definitely the best dh fork ive ever tried.
What instructions did you use to take out the par? My fork gets deliver tomorrow and i'm debating taking out the chamber myself.
Does the ATA still work without the PAR chamber.....?........
hmmmmmmmm I'd be experimenting with proper (not marz's) air settings before bastardising my fork. There's people running their 07 888 SL's with the Par intact who have it dialed. I personaly like having good bottom out control where I only use the last half to three quarters of an inch in emergancy situations.
You need to run much less pressure then is suggested, but remembering to not let the PAR pressure drop bellow the SFA pressure. I believe this is why some people were blowing up their 888's. It fails to mention this in their set-up manual, but they have it on their website. All this is for the 07 888 ATA of course but probably applies just the same to the 08.
You need to run much less pressure then is suggested, but remembering to not let the PAR pressure drop bellow the SFA pressure. I believe this is why some people were blowing up their 888's. It fails to mention this in their set-up manual, but they have it on their website. All this is for the 07 888 ATA of course but probably applies just the same to the 08.
I agree. I was asking for the instructions out of curiousity and may not even perform the removal. I've noticed the people who never get full travel run the "recommended" pressure. I've also heard you need to keep the par 30psi above the SFA... does that sound about right to you? I'd much rather save that extra 3/4 of an inch as safety for me being a hack but if I come up 2 inches short on full travel then I'll be pissed.
Do you mind me asking what you weigh and what setting you use? I'm just rying to get a general idea based on someone elses experience so I can get to tuning mine.
Yes, the ata still works without a PAR piston/ chamber in the cartridge. They are two completely different systems that are isolated from each other.
For your reading pleasure, here is the PAR piston removal procedure:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3195344&postcount=350
This was written for the 66sl ata, but it's essentially the same for the 888. Kidwoo did this to his 888.
Edit: skip steps 2 and 3 in the reassembly instructions; resetting the negative volume has been proven to be untrue.
For your reading pleasure, here is the PAR piston removal procedure:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3195344&postcount=350
This was written for the 66sl ata, but it's essentially the same for the 888. Kidwoo did this to his 888.
Edit: skip steps 2 and 3 in the reassembly instructions; resetting the negative volume has been proven to be untrue.
i tried running less air and the fork still would not use all the travel. even after landing nose heavy off a 6 foot drop with a tranny to try and bottom it. it still had atleast 2 inches of travel to go, i was unhappy with that. now its buttery smooth with one less o-ring and i have a reason to use the compression knob. taking out the par was the best idea ever.
Huh? Why do you lose travel if you have the PAR chamber? Is it possible to get full travel with correct settings?
so does anyone know if marzocchi managed to sort out the problems the 06/07 air forks had (e.g. getting not full travel or blowing through the travel, forks winding down...)? not many people over here seem to be happy with their air sprung 66/888 from 06 or 07, you can pick them up for dirt cheap cause nobody wants them...
i think it`s absurd having to take a new fork (i dropped big $$ on, by the way) apart and remove half of the internals to get it working at least somewhat decent. doesn`t removing the par chamber mean the fork has only one positive air chamber and works like a 15 year old rock shox mag 21? no adverse effect on small bump sensitivity?
so i hope mz dealt with the issues mentioned above, as unfortunately the steel spring model weighs 8.5lbs for 08 and is therefore (at least for me) not really an option
lthumbsdown:
i think it`s absurd having to take a new fork (i dropped big $$ on, by the way) apart and remove half of the internals to get it working at least somewhat decent. doesn`t removing the par chamber mean the fork has only one positive air chamber and works like a 15 year old rock shox mag 21? no adverse effect on small bump sensitivity?
so i hope mz dealt with the issues mentioned above, as unfortunately the steel spring model weighs 8.5lbs for 08 and is therefore (at least for me) not really an option
lthumbsdown:
I weigh 200. I haven't had on trail experience with this fork yet. But I set it up with120 in the SFA, and 130 in the PAR. This gives me proper sag, and just bouncing it in the driveway I can get all but an inch and a quarter out of it, which seems about right. For the record it is also the smoothest brand new fork I've ever felt.....no stiction. This is awesome because my coil sprung 66 RC2X, and Z1 light had gobs of stiction untill they broke in.
Do a little reading - like the link posted in this thread before flying off the handle. It's one small piston - not half the internals of the fork. It is only for bottom out resistance, has nothing to do with small bump performance, or damping for that matter. It's like removing a 2nd stage spring. The damping is completely contained in the other leg.
ok, maybe i was exaggerating a little bit. and i have to admit that i don`t know much about this wohle par/ata whatever thing
so basically this mod just removes an additional (and basically redundant) bottom-out chamber and doesn`t affect small bump sensitivity? the fork can be set up to get full travel without harsh bottoming and/or too much diving when using the front brake?
it is just that i`m just looking for a new fork myself, and i`d like to avoid spending a good amount of cash on a fork that doesn`t work as i expect it to. and it just seems that most people i talked to over here are quite unhappy with their air 66/888.
Guess I'll jump in again. Since I seem to be one of this forks biggest advocates.
I'm 200lbs lock and loaded. I run 65psi in the main chamber and 95 in the PAR. 3-5 clicks of compression. No mods to the fork other then Renegades fix for the ATA and Silkolene oil. I absolutely guarantee you I can get full travel.
A normal semi smooth downhill course will get me all but the last inch.
A tougher more technical course run at high speed will get me all but about the last 3/8".
The last 3/8" will only get used in the total "OH $HIT" moments, when you need it most.
They very last little bit of travel seems to only react to REALLY high speed hits. Drops don't seem to do it, although I have never drop over 10 feet, but even that still leaves about a inch and a half of travel.
It makes best use of travel when you are hauling ass.
The fork has a very unique feel to the stroke. Everyone always wants their air fork to feel like a coil. This one does and at the same time doesn't. It's hard to describe. It's very plush in the initial stroke, but has a very controlled, pneumatic (for lack of a better term) feel to it.
The damping is awesome. Seriously, get out on a fast technical course that you know well, and let it all hang out. The fork shines when you take it past your comfort zone.
Drops and the parking lot test do not show the forks potential. Although drops feel great on it, they just are less likely to use full travel.
I don't see any problem with removing the PAR. But I like having the extra bottom out insurance. But I will say, if I wasn't getting the last 2" of travel, I'd yank it in a heartbeat.
I'm 200lbs lock and loaded. I run 65psi in the main chamber and 95 in the PAR. 3-5 clicks of compression. No mods to the fork other then Renegades fix for the ATA and Silkolene oil. I absolutely guarantee you I can get full travel.
A normal semi smooth downhill course will get me all but the last inch.
A tougher more technical course run at high speed will get me all but about the last 3/8".
The last 3/8" will only get used in the total "OH $HIT" moments, when you need it most.
They very last little bit of travel seems to only react to REALLY high speed hits. Drops don't seem to do it, although I have never drop over 10 feet, but even that still leaves about a inch and a half of travel.
It makes best use of travel when you are hauling ass.
The fork has a very unique feel to the stroke. Everyone always wants their air fork to feel like a coil. This one does and at the same time doesn't. It's hard to describe. It's very plush in the initial stroke, but has a very controlled, pneumatic (for lack of a better term) feel to it.
The damping is awesome. Seriously, get out on a fast technical course that you know well, and let it all hang out. The fork shines when you take it past your comfort zone.
Drops and the parking lot test do not show the forks potential. Although drops feel great on it, they just are less likely to use full travel.
I don't see any problem with removing the PAR. But I like having the extra bottom out insurance. But I will say, if I wasn't getting the last 2" of travel, I'd yank it in a heartbeat.
I have spend couple of weekends on my -08 ATA WC and I have not notice "winding down" problem which was in earlier models.
I owned and rode my 66 ata for about 8 months before it started winding down. Other folks had wind-down from day 1. So.......keep watching it.
Haha, yeah... Mine got here yesterday and it weighs a few oz. over 7lbs with the topcrown and stock stem. A far cry from the advertised weight.
Unless something has changed for 08, the listed weights are without the stem, maybe even the axle. No other stock fork comes with a stem other then Travis's and I don't think they count it in their posted weights. A Boxxers weight sure doesn't include a stem. And the Marzocchi stem although no boat anchor is actually pretty heavy.
My 07 weighs 6.7lbs without the stem. Not as light as a WC Boxxer, but respectable none the less. Especially when you consider how much beefier the 888 is.
My 07 weighs 6.7lbs without the stem. Not as light as a WC Boxxer, but respectable none the less. Especially when you consider how much beefier the 888 is.
As in advertised weight I mean the weight (6.4) plus the 166 g they list for the crown/steerer and axle = 6.77lbs. Didn't mean to include stem in there. I weighed it without the stem and it was something just over 7lbs. the scale could be a little off. Either way I'm not bent out of shape nor do I care, I just think its funny that they are consistently wrong with advertised weights.
Didn't realise they came with stems, is it direct mount? what's the clamp(?) size?
The stem will fit both size bars. It comes with the reducers to run both.
the marzocchi us page still lists the weights the mz people at the eurobike booth told me in september (i.e. 6.4 lbs for ata wc and 7.5 lbs for rc3). a few weeks ago weights on the international page were corrected to 6.94 lbs and 8.26 lbs (!) for ata wc and rc3, respectively.
still not sure which fork to pick, 08 ata wc or boxxer team/wc?
still not sure which fork to pick, 08 ata wc or boxxer team/wc?
The weights you gave from the international site seem a little more in check based on my weights. I'm guessing that they are also without the steerer and crowns so that seems about right with mine being just over 7 without the stem. For the sheer size and burliness of the Zoke it isn't that bad as far as weight is concerned. Go for it over the boxxer but thats just my 2 cents.
is it a decent stem to run or is it worth just buying a aftermarket one?
The stem isn't a bad stem at all its a just a little long for my liking. I saw you asked about losign weigh by removing the ATA and PAR... They don't seem to weigh anything at all really and it doesn't seem like the ATA can be removed just "locked" or fixed with heavier springs. The PAR cahmber is made uo of 2 pieces of sting or wire and a plastic piece with an o-ring so it doesn't weight anything at all really. You would most likely save more weight using ti bolts in the crowns/stem than removing the PAR.
Mine was super smooth right out the box. I still don't try it on a track, but feels very stiff and with a very coil spring feeling. Of course it has the classic mid stroke karma than other air sprung forks, but i've heard that is lesser than Boxxer WC.
I got the 55 ATA too. Incredible fork at its second ride.
I got the 55 ATA too. Incredible fork at its second ride.
Little off topic, but does the 55 ATA have rebound and compression adjustments as well (directed more towards Bati, or those in the know)?
Does anyone know any good place in europe what has a good deal on these right now? CRC has them for 892 euros, which I don't mind but was wandering if anyone saw them for the 800 mark or so. cheers
you could always run the boxxer an inch up in the crowns.......
Yes, it have micro and macro ext. adjustments in compression.
Classic ext. for rebound.
put the fork on my bike today and played around with various settings the whole afternoon but could not get the fork to feel at least close to alright. either i pump it up (60 psi SFA, 90 psi PAR) so i don`t blow through the travel, but this setting gives me zero sag. if i try to set it up with more sag, the fork is way too soft (except the last inch or so, the fork gets really progressive there). oh, and i can`t find an air valve on the rc3 side 
but this is not the only problem i have: when i compress the fork, it makes a clicking sound, and on rebound it tops out quite harsh (topping out doesn`t get better if i increase rebound damping) and i loose a significant amount of pressure in the SFA chamber if i completely wind down the ata and then go back to 8" setting.
in addition to that i found that i can pull out the rc3 leg about half an inch further out than the other. does this sound normal to you or should i send the fork back?
but this is not the only problem i have: when i compress the fork, it makes a clicking sound, and on rebound it tops out quite harsh (topping out doesn`t get better if i increase rebound damping) and i loose a significant amount of pressure in the SFA chamber if i completely wind down the ata and then go back to 8" setting.
in addition to that i found that i can pull out the rc3 leg about half an inch further out than the other. does this sound normal to you or should i send the fork back?
put the fork on my bike today and played around with various settings the whole afternoon but could not get the fork to feel at least close to alright. either i pump it up (60 psi SFA, 90 psi PAR) so i don`t blow through the travel, but this setting gives me zero sag. if i try to set it up with more sag, the fork is way too soft (except the last inch or so, the fork gets really progressive there). oh, and i can`t find an air valve on the rc3 side
but this is not the only problem i have: when i compress the fork, it makes a clicking sound, and on rebound it tops out quite harsh (topping out doesn`t get better if i increase rebound damping) and i loose a significant amount of pressure in the SFA chamber if i completely wind down the ata and then go back to 8" setting.
in addition to that i found that i can pull out the rc3 leg about half an inch further out than the other. does this sound normal to you or should i send the fork back?
The sag issue will probably improve once you get the seals broken in. Especially the ATA cartridge can be one sticky mofo. Winding down the fork should have absolutely no effect on air pressure since you are not altering the volume in the cartridge by doing this, you are only shortening the shaft. It is also normal that the RC side can be pulled further out than the ATA side. (At least on the 07 ATAs)
I resolved most of my problems with sag/lack of travel by removing the stupid PAR piston. Still struggling with stiction in the ATA cartridge tho...... would appreciate any tips on resolving this. Thinking about adding teflon to the lubricating oil inside the cartridge.