[profro]

Let me ask you a question. This past weekend we had the first race of our NORBA Regional Maxxis Super Series. At the same time a collegient race was held. For the XC, DS, and DH seperate races were held with only collegient riders. On Sunday the collegient DH was held before the Maxxis race. It started to rain just before their race and continued to rain through both of their runs. After they had raced, the Maxxis series guys raced under MUCH worse trail conditions. Some of the guys who were going to race in both were told that they did not need to rerun new Maxxis times and were allowed to count their collegient race times. Needless to say their times where much faster and the placed 1st and 2nd in the Expert class.

My question is should that be? If the collegient race was a seperate race, then should they have rerun for new times in the Maxxis series? Did they pay two entry fees? If so, then I think they must use their times from the Maxxis race. If they didn't run during the Maxxis race, then their collegient times should be thrown out. Not that the prizes are the reason, but for series points this might turn out to hurt some people. What do you think? I have no personal dog in the fight because I wrecked and flatted during my runs, but I think something should be done, but what?

 

[Matt D]

Are you in collegien? It's "collegiate" cycling.

My opinion on your question, they should have to do a run for each race. Counting a run you did earlier in the day isn't fair. If you happen to draw an early number and race before the rain comes, good for you, you're lucky. But to count a run from an entirely different race (albeit the same day) doesn't sound fair IMO.

 

[profro]

Originally posted by Matt D
Are you in collegien? It's "collegiate" cycling.

Too bad neither of my college degrees can help me spell.

 

[UiUiUiUi]

hm its unfair either way...

they race twice the have to do more runs in just one day then the people who race only one race they might be not as fit as their competitors.

they race only one time they have the (dis)advantage of the better or sometimes worse conditions on the track.


imho racing twice still is the more fair way to do it!

 

[JRogers]

Gotta agree that that is unfair. As I recall, the one race I have been to where collegiate and regular were run together (Plattekill 2003 Easterns), the people racing both categories had to do two runs. At least, I know that some people who did both did do two runs, though I am not sure if it was required.

 

[profro]

The race promoter says that the collegiates were raced early (both runs) so that one team who had a long drive could get on the road. Which I some what can understand, maybe. But I don't like the fact that those who used their collegiate times got extremely unfair conditions. In most two run formats, the conditions aren't that different from the first expert to the last expert for most local races that have 15-20 experts. But these guys got both runs before the rest of the NORBA field got any runs. Its rumored that the guy who won had a 27 sec. slower 2nd run because of conditions and thats still before anyone else got a first run.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the luck of the weather draw. Look at the Grouse Mtn. world cup last year. Maybe I should be Pascal and just kill it in the rain.

 

[toughguymagee]

They should have had all people race once race. Score everyone in the Maxxis series by how they did and then break out all of the collegiate times and do collegiate placing off of that. The only time you run into an issue is if the age brackes are different. I dont think there is an age bracket in collegiate, but I could be wrong.

 

[dhmtbj]

Should have to do two seperate runs. Thats the only fair way to do it since the races were seperate.

 

[bigkonarider]

Typical race bro--
Now you know why i just ususally show up & hang out !!!!
Sometimes RACES just piss me off worse than the enjoyment i get out of the whole thing !
..Unless i like the course & it has a chairlift..Chairlift DH's rule !
Get em at WINDROCK !!
you going to Massanutton ???
I get my MONSTER-T for my Bullet Friday !?!!!

 

[BMXman]

definitely unfair....D

 

[Jeremy R]

Originally posted by BMXman
definitely unfair....D

Yeah, but imagine if you were the 3rd place expert guy.
Oh, wait a minute, I was.
Definitely a hard one to take.
Oh well, I did the best I could in the conditions that I had to race in. One guy felt sorry for me and gave me a beer, so it was not a total waste.

 

[JeffD]

Sure it's unfair but who gives a crap, it's a freakin' local race. All locals are bootleg in some way or another.

 

[profro]

Thats what sucks, why should a local race be that much of a joke?

 

[Peete]

I hope the reason you're talking about it in several forums is to make sure it doesn't happen again. Because the I'm sure Terry isn't going to change the results.
I'm sure he had good intentions when he did that but it is unlikely a situation like that will come up again.
And like Jeff said, it's local small potatoes.
It's no worse than changing the sport course at Wolf AFTER practice because a couple(and I mean like 2)vocal people whined about a technical section they couldn't do.
Again, local small potatoes.

 

[caboverpete]

Again, local small potatoes.

Around here local small potatoes make up pretty much the whole season.

 

[profro]

Originally posted by Peete
I hope the reason you're talking about it in several forums is to make sure it doesn't happen again. Because the I'm sure Terry isn't going to change the results.
I'm sure he had good intentions when he did that but it is unlikely a situation like that will come up again.
And like Jeff said, it's local small potatoes.
It's no worse than changing the sport course at Wolf AFTER practice because a couple(and I mean like 2)vocal people whined about a technical section they couldn't do.
Again, local small potatoes.

I never wanted the results to change, as you said I want to make sure we eliminate these mistakes that make our local races a joke. I was just curious what other people thought.

 

[spoke80]

Awesome, I'm glad to hear that the everyone thinks so highly of the southern race scene. Now I know why we have wack races, lame courses, no dh riders, and no people digging trails!

Why race?

 

[jackalope]

I was at the race as well, and was not aware that they used the college times for the Maxxis series...Not that it mattered much to me, seeing as this was my first DH race and I was in Beginner Class...Although, a 'race official' did tell me that Beginners were going right after the college kids, which would have been nice for us as the course wasn't a complete wreck right after the college runs (but getting there in a hurry I suspect)...Instead, we basically went last (along with most of the ladies), which I guess was probably the traditional order so that the newbies don't tear up the course for the experts and pros...But hey, they're experts and pros, they don't need a nice clean course to go fast - us beginners do

All in all, the rain was the real culprit as I think the order wouldn't have mattered that much if the course was bone dry...I was hoping to really crush that course as I had several easy sub 2:00 minute times in practice the day before; and I suck at riding (fast) in the mud...Good time overall, plus I had plenty of bier to make me feel better about slow ass times...

Looking forward to Windrock and the Wolf for sure...


On a major side note, would it be possible to say something like 'OK, the race is tenatively set to start at 11:00 with registration beginning at 9:00 - BUT, if you get here at 9:00 and are concerned about the approaching monsoon, you can run your times early and those who get here later, have to hope the rain hasn't hit'

Or in otherwords, create some kind of time window so that you can hopefully avoid racing in a deluge...Now I understand a lot of DH races occur in sloppy wet conditions, but this was simply over the top IMHO...I also understand that logistically it would also require more manpower to run the registration booth and the timing gates, but if you can beat the rain...Now for the record, I'm not bitching about the ETSU race, I'm just using it as an example and phrasing this question in general terms...

 

[spoke80]

Originally posted by Jeremy R
Yeah, but imagine if you were the 3rd place expert guy.
Oh, wait a minute, I was.
Definitely a hard one to take.
Oh well, I did the best I could in the conditions that I had to race in. One guy felt sorry for me and gave me a beer, so it was not a total waste.

JR,
I still have to get you your race bling! I was going to wear it around the house and get buck naked with my lady but I got revoked.

 

[profro]

Originally posted by jackalope

Looking forward to Windrock ...

Now there is something positive.

 

[profro]

Originally posted by spoke80
JR,
I still have to get you your race bling! I was going to wear it around the house and get buck naked with my lady but I got revoked.

I wanted him to wear it on our ride this evening, but we should keep it clean and in the package for ya Jeremy.

 

[Jeremy R]

Originally posted by spoke80
JR,
I still have to get you your race bling! I was going to wear it around the house and get buck naked with my lady but I got revoked.

Hey, if its sticky, you can keep it!!
No man, you know me, I told Terry not to worry about the medal or the prize. Sometimes shat happens in racing and that is the way it goes.


People who complain about the races around here need to live in a part of the country where they don't have any for a while.
Either that or promote their own. From Windrock to Wolf to ETSU, it seems to be the racers who end up PROMOTING the races, and that is done for the love of the sport. It would be nice to have someone around here who would promote them all, so we could just race, but that would be a hard sell. Let's find somebody willing to work really hard for no money!
Until then, I am just gonna keep racing the same way a crack head keeps smoking despite the negative aspects. Addiction is a biatch!

 

[spoke80]

If you want to have better events then you have to speak up and point out the negatives and submit alternatives. No one gets any credit for doing this because no one wants to be the negative guy. The alternative is crap for races because nothing will change. If that is what everyone really wants than I will not waste my $ or time.

There will always be complications at races that on one can foresee or manage and I am not pointing the finger at those situations.

But if the predetermined format is wack from the start than something needs to be said.

I know that we have been killing ourselves to make the two events we are promoting run as prefect as we can. And I welcome any criticisms to make the events even better the next go round.

Dats ma word,

 

[profro]

Originally posted by spoke80
If you want to have better events then you have to speak up and point out the negatives and submit alternatives. No one gets any credit for doing this because no one wants to be the negative guy. The alternative is crap for races because nothing will change.

Exactly.

I choose to say something, cuz I always have something to say but more importantly since I wrecked and flatted in my race runs and was no where near the medals, I felt like if I said something rather than Jeremy or Ben then it wouldn't look like sour apples.

I really do hate the passive attitude some people take towards things like this, but I am SURE people hate the attitute I take, so all is fair. But I want to make it better, more equal, and worth people's money and time. The racing scence would be much better that way.

 

[Jeremy R]

Originally posted by spoke80
.
But if the predetermined format is wack from the start than something needs to be said.

Yeah, I agree. We need to get together and decide on a format to have for both Windrock and Wolf so that they will be the same.
The splitting of expert and pro should be done for sure for the series. We can talk about it this weekend.
Juan is coming up to help with a dual course at Wolf, so that should be sweet.
And we should get you guys to come up there one day for the DH.
The more input the better.
Later, JR

 

[bizutch]

Originally posted by Jeremy R
Yeah, I agree. We need to get together and decide on a format to have for both Windrock and Wolf so that they will be the same.
The splitting of expert and pro should be done for sure for the series. We can talk about it this weekend.
Juan is coming up to help with a dual course at Wolf, so that should be sweet.
And we should get you guys to come up there one day for the DH.
The more input the better.
Later, JR

Ok...gotta comment on a little bit of everything.

Spoe80...you come acroos so much different on the net than in real life sometimes...funny stuff.

ProFro....protest period immediately following posting of results...use it. (note:You'll be ignored by said promoter but feel better having vented in front of peers)

Peete....I got your sport course...danglin'.

Jackalope......keep the positive attitude.

JeremyR....Can't wait to hear this story over beers at Snowshoe!

JeffD...your butt better show up at races this year or I'm gonna super glue that mullet on you.

To all: Heckle me all you want!

About Pascal...I saw the video. He rules in mud but if he had went off a few minutes later, his time would have really SUCKED. The fog the fastest qualifiers rode in was GNAR:angry: ...almost like pitch black. He rode in the rain, but not the fog...so that helped...still sucked for him though!

To Yo Momma: Come on down to Wolf and get a little somethin' somethin'!

 

[profro]

Originally posted by bizutch

ProFro....protest period immediately following posting of results...use it. (note:You'll be ignored by said promoter but feel better having vented in front of peers)

Yeah with hindsight I should have said something then. It wasn't until Ben and I were on the way home before we started understanding what had happened and then it didn't fully sink in until I saw the posted results Monday morning. The NORBA rulebook was completely thrown out this past weekend and that should be addressed at the next Maxxis races.

What's great is that Ben, Jeremy and I had a great time this weekend and once the rain started we had such chill attitudes because we knew the playing field had been leveled. But once a little light was shed, we saw that it wasn't. I wouldn't have thought it was my place to check and make sure that everyone was following the rules within the protest peroid. Isn't the Norba rep for that?

 

[spoke80]

Originally posted by Jeremy R
Yeah, I agree. We need to get together and decide on a format to have for both Windrock and Wolf so that they will be the same.
The splitting of expert and pro should be done for sure for the series. We can talk about it this weekend.
Juan is coming up to help with a dual course at Wolf, so that should be sweet.
And we should get you guys to come up there one day for the DH.
The more input the better.
Later, JR

JR,
We are definately going to split the classes experts and semipros/pros up. I am tired of getting my butt kicked by the same 6 semi-pros and pros.

Butch,
Funny Ha-Ha or Funny weird? I used to think you were a loud mouth punk but that was before I knew about your softer side!

 

[bizutch]

no certainly understandable. the window to dispute is int he rule book and the Offical acts as the mediator.

In regards to the "level playing field", you are ABSOLUTELY 100% correct in your reasoning.

The PERFECT example is Junior X at Nationals. There are several guys who race Pro or Semi-Pro and JuniorX class at Nationals. One to compete and upgrade, the other to shoot for Junior Worlds.

They have to race at their SET TIME for the class and category they are competing in. They cannot race Pro class and count their time toward the JuniorX race....regardless of how exhausting the course is. If it rains mid calss but not on them, sucks for everyone else but is completely random.

 

[bizutch]

Originally posted by spoke80
JR,
We are definately going to split the classes experts and semipros/pros up. I am tired of getting my butt kicked by the same 6 semi-pros and pros.

Butch,
Funny Ha-Ha or Funny weird? I used to think you were a loud mouth punk but that was before I knew about your softer side!

First...sorry for the numerous butt kickings.

Second...keep your hands off my softer side you pedophile

 

[bigkonarider]

I think racing is awesome---don't get me wrong..I wanted to be a PRO DH'er at one point....
Anyway's at the 4x race Saturday "How about a freaking RADIO" & some music---or a PA system...for real !!!!
It's so dam quiet & boring at times while everyone just lingers around ,etc......
Just gotta make it as fun as possible no matter what....
I mean....example " Jump contest advertised" Saturday.....
oh, sorry "NO jump contest"......So you get dissapointed little by little..It's all the little things that add up that makes events not 100% rockin.....
& ALL DH'ers LAST year complainrd that the ETSU DH SUCKED ASS,etc......"that's just what i heard"
AND What about SUGAR MTN LAST YEAR....I ALSO heard that it sucked because NO practice or something.....
See.........I can go on & on--but i still at least show up & enter a few....
Bottom line "IT IS WHAT IT IS" & make the best of it !!!!!!!
peas.................................

 

[JeffD]

Just to set the record straight, Peete and I weren't bitching or ragging the local scene. Quite the opposite - as long as I can ride a bunch and see the bros, I'm not gonna get bent about whether I win a tire I can brodeal or not. Can't beat racing weekends with a stick.

Butch - big talk from a guy with a caucasian 'fro.

 

[Jeremy R]

Originally posted by JeffD
.

Butch - big talk from a guy with a caucasian 'fro.

Yeah, when Butch says somebody has him "by the short and curlies" he has to specify.

 

[bizutch]

Originally posted by Jeremy R
Yeah, when Butch says somebody has him "by the short and curlies" he has to specify.

I love you guys. To hear us in person, people think we hate each other....but it's just one sarcastic love fest of F... You's and Som Beech's!