Aaron Gwin in August issue of Rolling Stone
- Thread starter Bigdroptoflat
- Start date
You're selfish!
It can have an up side and a down side... Prices might go down a bit, but probably not. Bike company profits will certainly go up, but that does little for us. You might get more race coverage on TV though. That would be cool. Maybe some more mountains might open up lifts to bikes, but more riders also = more use of the trails which brings me to..
The down side = More and more riders on the trails we have outside the lift destinations. And more riders = more conflict with other users, more "illegal" trails will be built and more and more areas will be closed down.
The growth of mountain biking is inevitable and a lot of what you guys are describing probably will be too. That's the price you pay for participating in such a damned awesome recreational hobby. I think people should be more focused on the facilitation of growth rather than dread the possibility of it.
Don't take for granted the power that numbers can give to your cause. Where I'm from MTB'ing is growing massively but there just isn't enough numbers, especially DH, to make the niche noticeable. No sponsors, few trail complexes, no shuttle systems, so on and so forth.
The more bikers there are the more profitable the economies that revolve around biking will become and hopefully it will be enough to facilitate greater numbers.
Progress is unstoppable.
Don't take for granted the power that numbers can give to your cause. Where I'm from MTB'ing is growing massively but there just isn't enough numbers, especially DH, to make the niche noticeable. No sponsors, few trail complexes, no shuttle systems, so on and so forth.
The more bikers there are the more profitable the economies that revolve around biking will become and hopefully it will be enough to facilitate greater numbers.
Progress is unstoppable.
wow. so much WRONG here.
prob true for the nose-picking, nut-scratching troggos with 74 IQ though
Or it'll reach a point, as it has in many places, where mtbers will be taken seriously and allowed to build real mtb trails.The down side = More and more riders on the trails we have outside the lift destinations. And more riders = more conflict with other users, more "illegal" trails will be built and more and more areas will be closed down.
I live in CO, and it seems like one of the major factors in getting people to ride downhill has been the expansion of the Winter Park / Trestle bike park. It allows beginners to get a taste of dh easily, just rent the equipment and go, they offer lessons too, which seem to be really popular. Other resorts in the area cater mainly to experienced riders or have had marginal rental equipment. I honestly can't believe how many new dhers and rental bikes I see out in WP, and a lot of first timers get "hooked" on lift riding after a day or 2. Not to say that there isn't a good "dh scene" and lots of great dh trails in the area, but most of them are on private property, not on a map, and require significant skills to ride... most of the guys I trail ride with don't have the skills, don't have a gravity bike, and fewer still have the desire to go out and ride these trails, so the growth of dh by this avenue is limited.
I don't really care what RS has to say about the sport and or AG. Nobody is looking to that magazine as a measuring stick to whats going on in the MTB world...But, it is always cool to see people get recognition outside of their normal media outlets, and regardless of their knowledge, his accomplishments are being noticed.
This may ruffle some feathers but, I think Palmer was one of the best and WORST things that happened to DHing in the US. I also think he is one of the greatest athletes of all time. Unfortunately, I think there was a generation of riders that looked to him (and Giove for that matter) and only saw the immage and party persona. From that came the idea that you could have this punk attitude, balls to the wall, play hard, party hard lifestyle and that is what it takes to win. Even if the persona was correct, this really could only work for one guy, and that was Palmer himself. I don't think the average rider really grasped how Palmer opperated, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so.
Gwin, on the otherhand, I think will be the best influence the sport has had in a long time (USA). He opperates with a thoroughness and professionalism that is needed to be "The Best in The World". While it may not yeild the same results for everybody, everybody can learn from this and will absolutely benefit from it. Good for him and good for the sport. Go Gwin!
Edit** I also think that it's not a coincidence that with the return of the big manufactures has come more access and more popularity.
This may ruffle some feathers but, I think Palmer was one of the best and WORST things that happened to DHing in the US. I also think he is one of the greatest athletes of all time. Unfortunately, I think there was a generation of riders that looked to him (and Giove for that matter) and only saw the immage and party persona. From that came the idea that you could have this punk attitude, balls to the wall, play hard, party hard lifestyle and that is what it takes to win. Even if the persona was correct, this really could only work for one guy, and that was Palmer himself. I don't think the average rider really grasped how Palmer opperated, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so.
Gwin, on the otherhand, I think will be the best influence the sport has had in a long time (USA). He opperates with a thoroughness and professionalism that is needed to be "The Best in The World". While it may not yeild the same results for everybody, everybody can learn from this and will absolutely benefit from it. Good for him and good for the sport. Go Gwin!
Edit** I also think that it's not a coincidence that with the return of the big manufactures has come more access and more popularity.
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I see that this topic has already been brought up and I will respectfully disagree. This may be an option in places with less population (aka windrock) but here in SoCal, no one owns enough contiguous land to have "private" trails open to the public (for a fee). Insurance will also play into the picture here in the states. Also, trails on public land are subject to more environmental concerns so I doubt that more trails will be opened/built. Here in soCal it is almost impossible to keep a trail "secret" bc we don't have the tree cover to keep them from being seen. You can go to the top of the nearest peak, look out and see the ribbons of dirt on all the surrounding lands.
And back the the MX comparison, there used to be a ton of local MX spots (not tracks built on a small piece of private land, but that too... I'm talking about general "areas" that are open to MX riders) Well there used to be a ton of spots here in the OC where guys in their 50's and 60's who tell me all about how they used to ride their dirt bikes in many of the popular MTB spots.
Your constant trolling of these boards might actually be making you living proof of what you just said.
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SoCal is not all of the world. In yurp we dont sue people because they have looked at us funny and in most countries environmental concerns can go hand in hand with bike trails ( I dont see why there should be any in the US since its one of the least enviroment friendly countries of the civilised world). The unseen part may be a problem but you dont need to hide your trails if people are friendly towards the sport. Ive been riding all over yurp and in places where people like and respect the bikers they have nothing against trails on their land. That is why I belive recognition would HELP not harm our case. At least in countries without a crazy sue everybody mentality.
More people does not equal more trails. More people means more poachers
and more illegal trails and landowner conflicts. For every 10 riders you are probably lucky to get 1 who can build trails well enough to keep the system intact. Add thousands of riders and you will have an non-sustainable underground network. I know this because I've seen it with the sports recent growth. Just because it works for you in Europe does not mean it works for us here in the US. DH has been quite a bit bigger for quite a bit longer over there than it has here so you are dealing with a different dynamic. As for a 20 min DH shuttle I have one 15 minutes from me. Just because you don't have one near you doesn't mean they don't exist. Regarding paid shuttle systems we have only one to my knowledge (locally) and it is races only because of usage issues. Again, just because it works for you does not mean it works for us.
The reference to skate parks is a poor one. While I agree the popularity helped them, you can't really compare that to our sport. We are limited by terrain. For a skatepark you need an acre (more or less) of land and lots of wood and/or concrete. For DH it is hundreds if not thousands of acres with mountainous terrain plus either shuttle or lift service and regular maintenance. The capital to start a bike park is no where near what the startup costs for a skate park is.
The US isn't Europe and what works there may not work here and vice versa. Fortunately (for my point of view anyway) I don't think DH has enough cost/benefit for the average person to make it the next big action sport. Now slopestyle and dj is another story...... I can see that blowing up in the very near future.
And neither (thankfully) is Europe. Try to see all sides here.
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True, we are not the entire world. But we aren't talking about raising the profile of the sport in europe either. Cycling is more accepted in your part of the world already, and we are talking about a US publication and the profile of the sport here in the states.
The piece is titles "Best mountainbiker in US history" and it starts out, "The last time anyone cared about mountainbiking was 1999 ... Shawn Palmer, Giove etc...over the next decade not a single american would win... aaron gwin..."
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This thread is really stupid.
Oh man, our SHORTEST shuttle trail is ~10 minutes, and that's what WC riders get down it, I'm closer to 12 or so. Longest is closer to 20, and that's just what's in town! There's tons of 15-20+ minute shuttle descents in Southern and Central California.
I will return with rep!
The piece is titles "Best mountainbiker in US history" and it starts out, "The last time anyone cared about mountainbiking was 1999 ... Shawn Palmer, Giove etc...over the next decade not a single american would win... aaron
gwin..."[/QUOTE]
post 1999
Alison Dunlop is a racer who has won the World Cross Country Mountain Bike Championship in 2001, and also has won the Mountain Bike World Cup twice, as well as the Redlands Bicycle Classic. She also represented the United States in the Olympics in both 1996 and 2000, though she did not win any medals. She is in a few mountain biking halls of fame, including the Colorado Springs Sports Hall of Fame, and has been named the female cyclist of the year more than once.
gwin..."[/QUOTE]
post 1999
Alison Dunlop is a racer who has won the World Cross Country Mountain Bike Championship in 2001, and also has won the Mountain Bike World Cup twice, as well as the Redlands Bicycle Classic. She also represented the United States in the Olympics in both 1996 and 2000, though she did not win any medals. She is in a few mountain biking halls of fame, including the Colorado Springs Sports Hall of Fame, and has been named the female cyclist of the year more than once.
nice dodge... you're trolling while calling me a troll... you're too deluded to get my point... and you're smug about it!
yeah you "win"
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pegboy,
what exactly is "professionalism"?
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everyone,
why does "the sport" need "a better profile" or "more exposure"?
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pro·fes·sion·al·ism [pruh-fesh-uh-nl-iz-uhm]
noun
1. the methods, character, status, etc, of a professional
2. the pursuit of an activity for gain or livelihood
As a supposed lawyer does the dissimilarity in professionalism between Palmer and Gwin really need to be pointed out? Do you not understand what makes someone more 'professional' than another? Or are all lawyers cut from the same cloth, and you don't see differences from peer to peer?
No one cares about chicks riding xc unfortunately. No one even remembers her September 13, 2001 world championship win. The GT/Schwinn bankruptcy-->Pacific buyout that also happened on September 11 decimated race budgets, pretty much forever.
GT is a great lesson- Your marketing budget can't be more than your total sales. Schwinn spent way too much money on racing compared to the results, Cannondale too.
Mountainbike racing peaked with the Atlanta Olympics and from that point on things declined steadily until there was just nothing left at the turn of the century. The demographic base had become so focused that there just wasn't a strong enough media to canonize Alison as anything more than a smiling success, some sort of all-american blonde haired blue eyed machine created by the Olympic movement and sustained via absolute boredom, ClifBars and training geek propaganda, all stuff that you can't readily market outside the realm of people who's own personal interests overlapped in the disciplines she competing in.
What we saw was a structural adjustment. MTB (especially XC(ESPECIALLY female)) racers aren't stars anymore, not even within our own sport. I don't know if anyone around here remembers "freeride", but in case you haven't heard of it it was an attempt to recapture the "lifestyle" end of the sport that was lost to the in(per)verted hyper-professionalization of the sport that the combination of Olympic fever and too much irrational outside capital created.
Alison was in the right place at the right time. GT recruited her from the national road team as a skill-less motor and imprinted the ability to ride a mtb just well enough to get around a track without having to walk the hard stuff. There was no future for female road racers then, just like there is no future for female MTB racers today.
The fact that she is a ****ty bike handler kills it for me.
ymmv, etc.
Ahh, a lawyer...that explains why the word is so foreign to him.
As much as I hate to admit, I understood his point; yes, you can stop progress...as alpine slug does in most threads.
Edit: sniped by Suspect, who I believe owes Cannondale monitary funds for using the word "freerid...". I'm not saying the whole word to avoid infringement..
As much as I hate to admit, I understood his point; yes, you can stop progress...as alpine slug does in most threads.
Edit: sniped by Suspect, who I believe owes Cannondale monitary funds for using the word "freerid...". I'm not saying the whole word to avoid infringement..
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and with this thread, the game has reached a new low. congratulations guys.
If I was Ridemonkey, I would sue the people in this thread for running off the membership.
not how most use the phrase, bubba.
colloquially usually it's a distinction from "amateur" in most uses I read/hear. which is like 2.
literally the "professions" are medicine and law. which implies 1.
so, which fits Gwin? your 1. or your 2.?
if 1. where's his JD or MD?
if 2. then they're all "pro" on the WC
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anyway to pegboy
you can fail at another "putdown" if you wanna... at least you can pretend you are superior! wowee!
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the Q holds: why do you assume "progress" (1) is good, and (2) is inevitable?
lack of intellect/education?
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Must.Resist.Lawyer.Troll.
Dude, the definition of progress is change for the better, how could that be bad? The inevitability of it is just popular philosophy.
Dude, the definition of progress is change for the better, how could that be bad? The inevitability of it is just popular philosophy.
You don't answer questions and then expect me to entertain your half-baked, asinine diatribe? Medicine and Law are the two 'professions'? No. They aren't. Welcome to earth, bubba.
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I agree but I think the topic shifted a bit to pros vs cons of mtb recognition and popularity.
Im not claiming europe is the entire world but it is a good example that illegal trails and more riders dont have to equal conflict. People assumed the same with many sports even though when you point to any one of them someone will claim it is a totally different situation be it skate/mx/ski/snowboard/bmx.
Also from what Ive heard mountain biking is pretty widely recognized in NZ and it is a good thing rather than something that breeds conflict. It can be done and has been done with other sports in the us and with mtb in other countries so why everyone doubt it?