[eccorp]

Paris Mtn DOwnhill 2012 State Championship Nov. 17-18
2013 National Qualifier


Need Input: the park wants us to put on a bike weekend in order to give us the Saturday date. We pitched to them today to do a dh qualifier on Saturday with a final on Sunday. Our idea would be to do State Champ DH on Saturday and a "Red Eye"(8:30 start???) State Champ SUPER D on Sunday.

Need Feedback!!! You guys are the one paying for the race.

 

[Jeremy R]

I like the idea of a bike weekend. I would rather see having the whole downhill race on Saturday. You could either do a qualifier and then a final or just have two race runs and count the best one. Then do the same thing on Sunday for the Super D. Having two runs of the Super D would give people more riding for their money. Paris has the potential to have an awesome super d course. I would try to keep the entry fee reasonable on the super d, because even though it is an awesome event, turnout has always been kinda low on those things in the Southeast. With the terrain that Paris has, the Super D there could be a big race if people get behind it.
IMO, its gonna be tough to get a bunch of Dhers to motivate to a 8:30 am start time in mid November.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I like the idea of a bike weekend. I would rather see having the whole downhill race on Saturday. You could either do a qualifier and then a final or just have two race runs and count the best one. Then do the same thing on Sunday for the Super D. Having two runs of the Super D would give people more riding for their money. Paris has the potential to have an awesome super d course. I would try to keep the entry fee reasonable on the super d, because even though it is an awesome event, turnout has always been kinda low on those things in the Southeast. With the terrain that Paris has, the Super D there could be a big race if people get behind it.
IMO, its gonna be tough to get a bunch of Dhers to motivate to a 8:30 am start time in mid November.

I agree with Jeremy,
A Super D that ends at the Ampitheater would be awesome.
An 8:30 start doesnt work very well, especially given the contingent that comes from places like Charlotte. Even if it is a 2 day even I doubt I would stay in GVille.

 

[Mulestar]

Super D from top of firetower down short kanuga to bottom of brissy! Would be waaay sicker than to the ampitheater.

I like it, but start the race later to give folks time to pedal a lap on the super D before their race.

 

[FCLinder]

Super D from top of firetower down short kanuga to bottom of brissy! Would be waaay sicker than to the ampitheater.

I like it, but start the race later to give folks time to pedal a lap on the super D before their race.

I agree!! Hell I would throw in the Firetower climb too. Its a 18+ min run. That way you cater to the XC guys in Greenville too. Yes its more of a climb most would have in a Super D, but you now open the door to bigger things and a bigger crowd of racers. Once you have the XC guys behind you along wtih the DH guys you can really grow this event.

Good luck and keep up the great work!!!

Cecil

 

[dragontalesdh]

I think the super D is a great idea. I raced the dh last yeah would love to do both this year if it does turn out. But I'm not from the area and not familiar with the trails so I can't do much suggesting

 

[park baker]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/239851759409153/

Tell somebody

 

[bizutch]

Maybe I could get my 8 year old to do the Super D. She beats all the boys her age at every other sport. Yeah, I'm bragging.

But seriously, I've only ridden Paris once on a trail ride and those trails frustrate the snot out of me in a good way. You cook it the whole time at full throttle and wonder if your tires are gonna just break traction like a NASCAR rig in turn 3. Would be stoked for a Super D. Super D with a climb would just be terrible. 18 minutes there would be an XC time trial, not a Super D.

 

[Mulestar]

But seriously, I've only ridden Paris once on a trail ride and those trails frustrate the snot out of me in a good way. You cook it the whole time at full throttle and wonder if your tires are gonna just break traction like a NASCAR rig in turn 3. Would be stoked for a Super D. Super D with a climb would just be terrible. 18 minutes there would be an XC time trial, not a Super D.

Butch is actually right. There would be plenty of pedalling in the route i suggested but no extended climbs. Using the climb up to firetower would complete negate any skill involved. Plenty of Greenville roadies that could murder any of us on that route on a rigid 29er.

I'd think from firetower down to the cabins at Brissy would be at least 5-6 minutes?...on perfect trailbike terrain with a nice mix of fast and technical. Some big tricky corners, lots of pumping, and root hell at the very bottom to keep the skills in play.

 

[Trilliamiano]

I think I've done that route before and It was sweet. I really dug the extra rough and rooty section at the bottom

 

[Jeremy R]

Butch is actually right. There would be plenty of pedalling in the route i suggested but no extended climbs. Using the climb up to firetower would complete negate any skill involved. Plenty of Greenville roadies that could murder any of us on that route on a rigid 29er.

I'd think from firetower down to the cabins at Brissy would be at least 5-6 minutes?...on perfect trailbike terrain with a nice mix of fast and technical. Some big tricky corners, lots of pumping, and root hell at the very bottom to keep the skills in play.

Ha, you start off a super d race with a 10 minute climb only if you are trying to win the world record for having the least of amount of people enter an event. You would have more people line up at the zoo to get their balls clawed by a tiger. XC racers do super d events because they are fun and different.
If you look at something short like dark mountain's super d. It really does not have much up hill in it, and it is still a balanced race as far as xc racers and dh racers doing well. That is the way it should be. Something that is fun to ride to get more people to enter. Doing short kanuga, to brissy, and then hanging a right on that rootball trail would be great course.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Ha, you start off a super d race with a 10 minute climb only if you are trying to win the world record for having the least of amount of people enter an event. You would have more people line up at the zoo to get their balls clawed by a tiger. XC racers do super d events because they are fun and different.
If you look at something short like dark mountain's super d. It really does not have much up hill in it, and it is still a balanced race as far as xc racers and dh racers doing well. That is the way it should be. Something that is fun to ride to get more people to enter. Doing short kanuga, to brissy, and then hanging a right on that rootball trail would be great course.

I still dont understand why you wouldnt want to do the DH course + keep going to the Ampitheater? Maybe build a little finish line jump? (that you could tear down)

 

[Jeremy R]

I still dont understand why you wouldnt want to do the DH course + keep going to the Ampitheater? Maybe build a little finish line jump? (that you could tear down)

Well, that would be my second choice, and it still would be a damn good course. But if you are already racing that course on Saturday for the DH, it just makes sense to race a totally different trail for the super d on sunday. Plus, alot of goobers don't like riding down the dh course.

 

[Mulestar]

I still dont understand why you wouldnt want to do the DH course + keep going to the Ampitheater? Maybe build a little finish line jump? (that you could tear down)

I'll show up and race either way, but I think JR is right...who wants to race the same trail two days in a row?

That would be a 1 minute downhill followed by 5 minutes flat pedalling. I think a long, consistently downhill grade that is way higher speed is just a lot better fit for a "super D" race. Think about the amount of time you spend on that run pedalling to the ampitheater compared to cornering and attacking technical sections at the top. More time pedalling (for anyone) on a course=more time to be gained by fitness alone. Super D should be a balance, so that the rider that has the best set of skills AND fitness wins.

I might be alone on this but the race course is probably my least favorite downhill in the whole park. I just love ripping those top trails on my pedal bike...soooo many pumps and turns and awesomeness. They've made 500 vertical feel like pisgah length downhills.

Either way, this is awesome. Lets be honest, as great as the downhill race at paris is, its a mediocre venue for that type of event. Super D on the other hand, is a PERFECT fit for that place. Hell, you could do a 4 race series. One track from firetower to the cabins at the bottom of Brissey, another from firetower to the lake via kanuga, a third from down firetower trail then left on brissey all the way to the lake, and a final down the DH to the ampitheater.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I'll show up and race either way, but I think JR is right...who wants to race the same trail two days in a row?

That would be a 1 minute downhill followed by 5 minutes flat pedalling. I think a long, consistently downhill grade that is way higher speed is just a lot better fit for a "super D" race. Think about the amount of time you spend on that run pedalling to the ampitheater compared to cornering and attacking technical sections at the top. More time pedalling (for anyone) on a course=more time to be gained by fitness alone. Super D should be a balance, so that the rider that has the best set of skills AND fitness wins.

Here is a GPS of a ride at Paris a while ago. I just dont see the "flat" part, it is all downhill from the top of the DH run. Certainly it gets less steep, but you are almost always going down. Additionally it is also almost 2 miles from the top to the Ampitheater. I dont know where else you get that elevation drop AND distance, but there are certainly people that have ridden there more often.

Anyway, it is an interesting conversation to have and I look forward to whatever the end result is. The event has been really good and I look forward to participating.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/15368950

The uphill is after the ampitheater back to the parking lot.

 

[park baker]

Andrew

What we rode that day last year this time would be an awesome Super D. I think the guy above me posted the same route.

 

[Mulestar]

Andrew

What we rode that day last year this time would be an awesome Super D. I think the guy above me posted the same route.

We rode everything in the park that day...so we definitely covered all the routes discussed haha.

Rob, from your GPS i'm getting about 550 vertical from the top of the DH to the ampitheater. Counting contour lines on the topo I'm getting 680 vertical feet from the firetower to the bottom of brissy ridge over approx the same distance. So there is actually more vert available with that route.

Here's a map for anyone interested in what we're rambling about: http://www.southcarolinaparks.com/files/State Parks Files/Paris Mtn/MapParisMountain.pdf

 

[wiL]

Yup, from the top of firetower-> short kanuga -> lower half of brissy to the road would make for an awesome super D and for a way better track than just doing the DH trail back to the amphitheater. Either would be good, but the kanuga/brissy route has more flow, more vert, and varying trail terrain that would better suit more riders. Plus, it would be good to use the other half of the park for a race.

thanks to all working to make this happen.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Rob, from your GPS i'm getting about 550 vertical from the top of the DH to the ampitheater. Counting contour lines on the topo I'm getting 680 vertical feet from the firetower to the bottom of brissy ridge over approx the same distance. So there is actually more vert available with that route.

Here's a map for anyone interested in what we're rambling about: http://www.southcarolinaparks.com/files/State Parks Files/Paris Mtn/MapParisMountain.pdf

So you would start at the actual Firetower (not the connector), the connector, short Kanuga, left, to Brissy down to the road? I just cant remember where the cabins are.

 

[Mulestar]

So you would start at the actual Firetower (not the connector), the connector, short Kanuga, left, to Brissy down to the road? I just cant remember where the cabins are.

Yep. Firetower>connector>short kanuga>left on Brissy>right to stay on brissy to the road.

 

[motomike]

Hell, you could do a 4 race series. One track from firetower to the cabins at the bottom of Brissey, another from firetower to the lake via kanuga, a third from down firetower trail then left on brissey all the way to the lake, and a final down the DH to the ampitheater.

Sounds like you could do all 4 of those in one day and time the downhill sections, ala real Enduro style...

edit: Which would make that the only Enduro race in the region, that I know of...which could bring more race entries

 

[Mulestar]

Sounds like you could do all 4 of those in one day and time the downhill sections, ala real Enduro style...

edit: Which would make that the only Enduro race in the region, that I know of...which could bring more race entries

I thought of this too. If it were up to me this is what I would do. I think combined times could be close to 30 mins.

 

[FCLinder]

Sounds like you could do all 4 of those in one day and time the downhill sections, ala real Enduro style...

edit: Which would make that the only Enduro race in the region, that I know of...which could bring more race entries

I like! I like things to be different from the Norm. Why be just like ever other event?

Cecil

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Very interesting ideas...

 

[eccorp]

we talked about the Enduro possibility on sunday while we were out at the park.

Mulestar pm your contact info. I spoke with Deno and he wants to get up with you.

 

[park baker]

Tell Somebody!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/239851759409153/

 

[bizutch]

3 stage enduro. Must check at the next stage start 60 minutes prior to your finish in of your last stage. That would mean you'd need a central staging area to get your bike setup for the next stage.

Weighted time percentage for each stage that would allow you to have each stage's time count equally for your final time.

1. Down Kanuga to the lake
2. Down the Super D to the ampitheatre
3. Down the DH

You'd progressively get closer to the staging area after each run.

 

[eccorp]

Super D to the amphitheater is no go. The trail would have to be closed to hikers and with Mtn. Creek being the main artery trail into the park they will not let me hold a race on it.

Here is what i am thinking.

Sunday Enduro

Stage: Brissy Ridge (cul de sac start) to Pipsissewa with finish at North Lake Intersection

Stage: Fire Tower(top) to Kanuga Left to North Lake Finish

Stage: Sulphur Springs DH

Stage: Fire Tower(top) to Kanuga Right to Brissy Ridge to Buckhorn Rd Finish.

Staging area would be Camp Buckhorn

 

[Jeremy R]

That would make for an awesome day of racing. The only downside would be for the guys putting on the race and having to run everywhere to get the timing setup for each stage. But if this went down, you would see alot of tired happy racers leaving the park that day.

 

[Mulestar]

Heck yes I'm in. Let me know what you need help with to make it happen. I'll help with anything leading up to it, but come race day I'll be riding because this sounds awesome!

With that many stages, timing with stopwatches and walkies would probably be acceptable. I doubt you'll have power at some of those finishes anyway. I would think there would be enough separation at the end to make that system accurate enough. I'd say the best thing you could do to make it easier on yourself is only offer two classes. Amateur and Elite. It would be like one big group ride with timed descents.

 

[Trilliamiano]

It would be like one big group ride with timed descents.

Bro Ride! The stumpy likes the sound of this race format.

 

[jonnynails]

This sounds awesome! I'm in! However you guys end up doing it is fine by me, but the stages idea sounds like more fun then mud wrestling at a strip club in Vegas.