[5150dhbiker]

This is a REALLY long shot asking this on here but myself and my father are trying to find out as much as possible before making a purchase.

Ok, so most of you on here have heard me talk about flying etc. Well I'm currently working on my Commercial rating as a pilot and the current plane I'm flying (Piper Archer II) is not cutting it. So, my dad is looking at three different types of planes. He's retiring from United Airlines (767 captain, number 1 on that plane and been with the company 33 years) really soon and wants something to get him places quickly without taking the airlines. Plus, he is going to let me use it for the rest of my ratings as well as put it "on the line" at a local flight school that he instructs at. NOT looking forward to the insane fuel burn from a high performance plane and the tiny size of my wallet (no tiny size jokes allowed).

SO, here are the three choices. Anybody ever hear any good/bad things about them? We used to have an A-36 Bonanza partnership but one of the partners and his wife crashed and were killed in the plane the day before Christmas in 2007.


#1 Bellanca Turbo Super Viking

#2 Mooney 201

#3 (and my choice) Beechcraft F-33A Bonanza (he might be test flying this exact plane next week...just found it for sale today)

 

[MMike]

Get an F-35

 

[Da Peach]

 

[BikeMike]

Surely you can't be serious!

 

[W4S]

Surely you can't be serious!

 

[TheTruth]

MMike must be enthusiastically PMing you right now.

 

[MMike]

 

[MMike]

 

[MMike]

But why not a twin?

 

[5150dhbiker]

A twin would be soooo nice but he will be retired...and having a plane with two IO-550's burning 18gph each...makes it a little expensive to fly! Oh, plus the cost of overhauling two engines and the annuals would SUCK! Haha

And I won't let him get one since I don't have my multi-engine rating yet.

 

[stevew]

just join the air force.

 

[demo 9]

 

[Pesqueeb]

Umm... You can't really be looking at buying and airplane and be worried about cost at the same time. An airplane is just a hole in the sky that you throw money into. If your serious about a "career" rofl in aviation, have the old man get a twin. Your going to be spending more time in that if you really want a multi/commercial license. Figured out what your gonna do for turbine time?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

And I won't let him get one since I don't have my multi-engine rating yet.

Just run one engine until you get your rating, then fire both of them up

 

[jdcamb]

I want a Plane too! If you violate the Air Space of something really important do they put points on your license and fine you? Is it like a ticket? Is there such a thing as Grand Theft Plane? If you got baked while flying a plane can you be charged with Flying Under the Influence? Just checking before I go off and do something stupid....

 

[Serial Midget]

One of my colleagues has a small airplane that is about 20 years old (I don't know the make but it looks like number 3) he rarely flies it but spends more the $20,000 a year to hanger it, next year he has to have a 6000 hour engine rebuild that will cost upwards of 10G.

What he likes about having a plane is the ability to fly all over rural Montana where there are hundreds of landing strips on public land that where built and maintained by cattle ranchers.

 

[Toshi]

just join the air force.

This.

 

[5150dhbiker]

Umm... You can't really be looking at buying and airplane and be worried about cost at the same time. An airplane is just a hole in the sky that you throw money into. If your serious about a "career" rofl in aviation, have the old man get a twin. Your going to be spending more time in that if you really want a multi/commercial license. Figured out what your gonna do for turbine time?

I'm not worried about cost, he is. When you buy a twin vs a single you have about twice the cost.

And yes, I am serious about a career in aviation but have access to a twin already so not a big deal. For turbine time...that's not required for a SEL, MEL, IFR, Commercial or ATP rating. When you get hired on with an airline or corporation you go through airplane specific training and get a "type certificate" for that plane.

And I would not really laugh at a career in aviation. My dad gets paid a few hundred grand a year to fly a plane. Personally for me, I don't care about the money, I just LOVE flying and being in the sky!!

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

NOT looking forward to the insane fuel burn from a high performance plane and the tiny size of my wallet.

 

[Batman]

My dad gets paid a few hundred grand a year to fly a plane.

/thread....

You dont actually expect advice on buying an AIRPLANE here, do you?

 

[stevew]

why not join a aviation board and post this......ridicule maybe?

 

[Pesqueeb]

And I would not really laugh at a career in aviation. My dad gets paid a few hundred grand a year to fly a plane. Personally for me, I don't care about the money, I just LOVE flying and being in the sky!!

My point being is that those days are retiring right along with people like your father. Its gonna be a long time, if it ever happens again, before people start making 33 year careers flying for majors again. The golden age of aviation is over. At this point you be lucky to land yourself a job flying q400's for colgan or, if your really lucky, emb120's for skywest, and when you do you get to look forward to making <30000 grand a year flying right seat reserve for FSM knows how many years. Plus there is the glory of being gone and sleeping in some sh*tty ORD crash pad 6 months a year. I personally know a guy who's working on damn near year 4 doing reserve in a 120 out of FAT, and I ride with a guy here in COS doing his third year right seat reserve in a CRJ 200. Not that maintenance is any better, I've got 9.5 years with Skywest and there are a lot of guys with less seniority than me who all thought they were locked in and had career's with major carriers who either laid them off or that simply don't exist anymore. I'm lucky to not be working nights anymore even though I'm stuck working weekends for the long term foreseeable future. I realize that aviation has this way of making people do weird and twisted things when they start thinking in terms of the "future" and "career", which is why I strongly discourage people from getting into it when ever I can. Your future family will thank me.

 

[sanjuro]

just join the air force.

Did wonders for Red Rabbit...

 

[MMike]

truthiness.

Indeed. I'm a little surprised his dad hasn't told him this already.

Of course it's still better than being a professional helicopter pilot. There are a LOT of them out there and they are really hurting these days. There are a lot of machines sitting idle right now and have been for the last couple of years. And there's no real change in sight. (Unless next summer's fire season is more active)

 

[5150dhbiker]

Honestly I know those days are dying and I don't care if I make a lot or not. Honestly I just want to make enough to have a small apartment somewhere a working truck, my motorcycle and my DH bike. I could care less about a family in the future. I love flying more then just about anything I've done. I would literally rather die then have a job in retail (like I have for the past 7 years) or an office job.

I know people out here who are making enough to do what I want to do being a flight instructor even. I just want a job that involves flying!

And by the way, he's thinking more about the Turbo Super Viking now. Higer performance then the Bonanza and FAR less expensive. A SUPER nice one with a pretty freshly rebuilt engine is around $50,000 and you get better performance then the Bonanza or Mooney.

 

[5150dhbiker]

My point being is that those days are retiring right along with people like your father. Its gonna be a long time, if it ever happens again, before people start making 33 year careers flying for majors again. The golden age of aviation is over. At this point you be lucky to land yourself a job flying q400's for colgan or, if your really lucky, emb120's for skywest, and when you do you get to look forward to making <30000 grand a year flying right seat reserve for FSM knows how many years. Plus there is the glory of being gone and sleeping in some sh*tty ORD crash pad 6 months a year. I personally know a guy who's working on damn near year 4 doing reserve in a 120 out of FAT, and I ride with a guy here in COS doing his third year right seat reserve in a CRJ 200. Not that maintenance is any better, I've got 9.5 years with Skywest and there are a lot of guys with less seniority than me who all thought they were locked in and had career's with major carriers who either laid them off or that simply don't exist anymore. I'm lucky to not be working nights anymore even though I'm stuck working weekends for the long term foreseeable future. I realize that aviation has this way of making people do weird and twisted things when they start thinking in terms of the "future" and "career", which is why I strongly discourage people from getting into it when ever I can. Your future family will thank me.

Well to help out your career because it's going to be too soon with mine. With the merger of Continental and United, they announced that they're going to be offering a cash buyout to all the senior captains within a year. Also, they're looking at needing to hire a few thousand pilots to replace them. My dad loves United and has been laid off 4 times...once where he went 3 years without flying for them and was in the biggest financial trouble of his life (right after I was born).

Like I said, flying is the only thing I want to do with my life and money really does not matter to me. Everyone else in my family has the mentality of "make money, that's what it's all about." F*&k that, I want to enjoy my job and will sacrifice whatever to do it.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I admire the unbridled idealism in this thread.

 

[MMike]

 

[Serial Midget]

My dad retired from UAL last year - he was never laid off and "survived" the strike of '79 - I know because they made T-Shirts.

He wasn't a pilot - he started off as a programmer / systems annalist and finished his career as some sort of project manger.

Pilot's careers are not noted for stability and never where.

Bean counting is where its at.

Well to help out your career because it's going to be too soon with mine. With the merger of Continental and United, they announced that they're going to be offering a cash buyout to all the senior captains within a year. Also, they're looking at needing to hire a few thousand pilots to replace them. My dad loves United and has been laid off 4 times...once where he went 3 years without flying for them and was in the biggest financial trouble of his life (right after I was born).

Like I said, flying is the only thing I want to do with my life and money really does not matter to me. Everyone else in my family has the mentality of "make money, that's what it's all about." F*&k that, I want to enjoy my job and will sacrifice whatever to do it.

 

[Red Rabbit]

Did wonders for Red Rabbit...

Hoohah!

 

[limitedslip]

You need to include his budget, where he lives (SB?), his common destinations, what altitude he wants to be able to fly at, what range he wants, what sort of luggage/equipment he carries, whether he needs de-ice, glass, oxygen etc. As it is this is sort of a "What bike should I get? I want to be able to go down hills."

 

[limitedslip]

That being said, get cessna 337 skycatcher

 

[stevew]

I admire the unbridled idealism in this thread.

bullsh!t.

 

[stevew]

I realize that aviation has this way of making people do weird and twisted things when they start thinking in terms of the "future" and "career", which is why I strongly discourage people from getting into it when ever I can. Your future family will thank me.

is there anything else we can do to put you out of a job?

sounds like you are desperate for it.

 

[Pesqueeb]

is there anything else we can do to put you out of a job?

sounds like you are desperate for it.

Believe me, if i could find another job with my limited skill set I would. As soon as my daughter is old enough for school, I'm going back to school.

*edit: Don't get me wrong. Given the fact that I have a very limited/specific education/skill I've done pretty well for myself. I&#8217;ve been able to provide a decent living for myself and my family, and for that I'm grateful. But after 9.5 years of working nights/weekends/holidays, the cost to both my mental and physical health, plus the family tension of working a fvcked up schedule like that makes it hard to justify in retrospect.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

You need to include his budget, where he lives (SB?), his common destinations, what altitude he wants to be able to fly at, what range he wants, what sort of luggage/equipment he carries, whether he needs de-ice, glass, oxygen etc. As it is this is sort of a "What bike should I get? I want to be able to go down hills."

Most of that is not necessary. The most important thing is how hot is the Airwaitress going to be?

 

[5150dhbiker]

You need to include his budget, where he lives (SB?), his common destinations, what altitude he wants to be able to fly at, what range he wants, what sort of luggage/equipment he carries, whether he needs de-ice, glass, oxygen etc. As it is this is sort of a "What bike should I get? I want to be able to go down hills."

Well we fly quite a bit to Palm Springs, Redding and do a lot of shorter trips. Usually we don't go above 8,500 but on the longer trips that we take to TX, CO and TN we'd like to go higher.

Not too worried about de-ice boots etc. either. The only reason he's looking at the Turbo Super Viking is it's one of the only ones with a manual wastegate for the turbo. At least with that you wont be putting as much stress on the turbo.

 

[Serial Midget]

Most of that is not necessary. The most important thing is how hot is the Airwaitress going to be?