[DRB]

Cannondale launches Synapse
Cannondale has for years been experimenting with carbon fiber, usually in conjunction with the company's long-time favourite material, aluminium. But the latest road frame from the Bethel Connecticut bike builder doesn't mix carbon with anything: the Synapse is 100 percent carbon fiber.

And in another first for Cannondale, it's not manufactured in the US, but in the far East, rapidly becoming the home of carbon fiber just as it's been the home of chromoly and then aluminium bike manufacture in the past.

Cannondale says the Synapse combines stiffness and comfort better than any other carbon fiber bike, thanks to its Triaxial Hourglass seat stays and Synapse Active Vibration Elimination technology in the chain-stays.

 

[Bikebro]

If its made outside the US then it should then cost less then the Six13 frames. I really doubt that though and its just going to be a cash cow for Cannondale. The shaped seat stays is laughable. You don't have to shape carbon stays on an all carbon bike to get it to ride nice.

 

[Pau11y]

I don't know about you, but if I had a full carbon bike I'd want the chi factor of naked carbon to show. I mean, is that an ugly paint job for a carbon bike or is it just me? Hell, you can pearl over the carbon/resin finish and get a wicked bitchin' looking frame which will still have the weave in the background and I'm sure it'll cost less than that tennis shoe of a paint job on that Cannondale.

 

[Bikebro]

I would think that all the areas that look black in the photo are just clear coat over the carbon. They basically did the same on the Six13 bikes.

 

[peter6061]

It's a different kind of bike from the six13. It's made more for comfort and century riding. And yes, it is less expensive that the six13. We rode some this past weekend, and everyone who got off said they were very comfortable bikes.

As for the paint, the ones that we rode had a flat black finish with the cannondale graphics 'cut out' revealing the carbon below. From what I was told, the production version with be the opposite, naked with matte black decals/paint. Then, of course, there is the blue and white one which actually impressed most of the people who approached it.

Cannondale usually does a good job giving people a choice of multiple color options when selecting a frame / bike.

 

[sanjuro]

1. It looks like a Spec/Ed Roubaix. Made in Taiwan too. Hmmm.
2. I wonder how C/Dale's reputation will suffer when shops can no longer say, "All of C/Dale's frames are made in America".

 

[James]

1. It looks like a Spec/Ed Roubaix. Made in Taiwan too. Hmmm.
2. I wonder how C/Dale's reputation will suffer when shops can no longer say, "All of C/Dale's frames are made in America".

Doesn't say anything about Taiwan, does it?
This has been floating around for probably almost 2 years, it was almost like Bigfoot. "Have you seen it?" "I swear I saw it a X factory!"
Good for them, finally getting on the full carbon bandwagon. The 6/13 is a pretty cool bike, but e-x-p-e-n-s-i-ve.
It is interesting as they are no longer the only "larger" MFR no longer making frames exclusively in the US. I'm sure they're spin it really well, they always do.
There was a Bicycle Retailer classified ad abotu 2+ years ago from Cannondale looking for a "composites engineer/expert" who was familiar with overseas production.
Very interesting...

JJames

 

[BillT]

Any idea on what the price range on this line of bikes will be?

 

[Olyroller]

I think Fasso is the only other team not spinning carbon bikes out of the 20 teams.

 

[indieboy]

am i the only one who thinks the six13 rides like ****?

 

[Mr Tiles]

Are trek's cf bikes not made in the US? Why do they have to source overseas to make just this frame? Sounds like this is the first step on the way out of US production of everything. It's a shame IMO. We're not going to have any mfg'ers left except the boutique guys, guess there's nothing wrong with that...

 

[sanjuro]

Doesn't say anything about Taiwan, does it?
This has been floating around for probably almost 2 years, it was almost like Bigfoot. "Have you seen it?" "I swear I saw it a X factory!"
Good for them, finally getting on the full carbon bandwagon. The 6/13 is a pretty cool bike, but e-x-p-e-n-s-i-ve.
It is interesting as they are no longer the only "larger" MFR no longer making frames exclusively in the US. I'm sure they're spin it really well, they always do.
There was a Bicycle Retailer classified ad abotu 2+ years ago from Cannondale looking for a "composites engineer/expert" who was familiar with overseas production.
Very interesting...

JJames

Well this site has it as "Far East" http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/news/04-14

And friends of mine were pedalling around Marin this winter when there was a top secret ad being filmed for C/Dale. They were shoo'ed away, but appararently, this is what they saw.

 

[James]

Are trek's cf bikes not made in the US? Why do they have to source overseas to make just this frame? Sounds like this is the first step on the way out of US production of everything. It's a shame IMO. We're not going to have any mfg'ers left except the boutique guys, guess there's nothing wrong with that...

Trek makes their own lugs, but they buy the actual tubes (downtube, seattube, etc, though the head/tt on the Madone is one big lug). It's just really, really expensive to do the carbon stuff in the US. A lot of it is the kinda big bummer about enviromental controls. A lot of these manufactoring nations in Asia really want to be known as manufactoring nations, so their enforcement of any of their more lax laws is pretty lame.
That having been said, some of the best, highest-quality carbon fiber (whether in pre-preg, which is an actual sheet of the stuff which you then stuff in a mold, or the actual fiber strands) comes out of Asia. The Japanese stuff is some of the best, and that new stuff that Giant is using on a couple of bikes is pretty amazing too.
So, Cannondale had to do it from a cost standpoint. They're not neary Trek, so their way of doing things tends to cost more, which is why Cannondales cost more. Which isn't to say that they don't have some great bikes at all.
Anyway, that's enough for now, 4 hours in the car from Laguna Seca makes James' head all twisty...

JJames

 

[James]

Sounds like this is the first step on the way out of US production of everything.

Forgot to make a point on this. When Cannondale went Chapter 11 a year or two back, I think most folks in the industry knew that in order to be a viable company, they need to move some production offshore. Yeah, it sucks, Cannondale has always been the 800lb Gorilla of US mfrs, but they weren't just making the numbers work...
It'll happen, sooner or later, I'd stake my new 2.2lb, $1500 retail Asian-made carbon road frame on it.

JJames

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Trek makes their own lugs, but they buy the actual tubes (downtube, seattube, etc, though the head/tt on the Madone is one big lug). It's just really, really expensive to do the carbon stuff in the US. A lot of it is the kinda big bummer about enviromental controls. A lot of these manufactoring nations in Asia really want to be known as manufactoring nations, so their enforcement of any of their more lax laws is pretty lame.
That having been said, some of the best, highest-quality carbon fiber (whether in pre-preg, which is an actual sheet of the stuff which you then stuff in a mold, or the actual fiber strands) comes out of Asia. The Japanese stuff is some of the best, and that new stuff that Giant is using on a couple of bikes is pretty amazing too.
So, Cannondale had to do it from a cost standpoint. They're not neary Trek, so their way of doing things tends to cost more, which is why Cannondales cost more. Which isn't to say that they don't have some great bikes at all.
Anyway, that's enough for now, 4 hours in the car from Laguna Seca makes James' head all twisty...

JJames

I'm confused here...so Trek makes the cf lugs using their OCLV process, and uses tubes from elsewhere? That's weird.

As of right now, shops are unable to get anything Trek because a bunch of defense contractors, including Boeing, are buying Trek's cf for their "stuff." Which kinda sucks for the consumer, but is a feather in their cap for knowing their cf. But are the cf tubes they use just cf from Asia, or did they undergo the OCLV process thingy?

 

[James]

I'm confused here...so Trek makes the cf lugs using their OCLV process, and uses tubes from elsewhere? That's weird.

As of right now, shops are unable to get anything Trek because a bunch of defense contractors, including Boeing, are buying Trek's cf for their "stuff." Which kinda sucks for the consumer, but is a feather in their cap for knowing their cf. But are the cf tubes they use just cf from Asia, or did they undergo the OCLV process thingy?

OCLV is just a word they have for what they do. Most MFRs are the same way, just go touting about it.
Yeah, they buy their tubes. A somewhat-known secret, ask any sales (co) rep, and they have to tell you. They're US made, for sure though, just not by Trek...
I don't know where the CF comes from. Though I did heard a rumor that they were shopping Taiwan/Chinese plansts for their Pilot line, which they ended up making here...

JJ

 

[Mani_UT]

OCLV is just a word they have for what they do. Most MFRs are the same way, just go touting about it.

Tubes are US made in Utah. It's not a secret It has been that way forever.
OCLV is more that a marketing word. It's a process more advanced than most of the other bladder process on the market that my company (Radius Engineering) developed and licenced them in the early 90s. Sometimes it is used for the sole lugs, sometime for the whole bike (think Y bikes).

Not all composites frames are born equal and the trek frames are right up there.

Oh and the fiber/pre-repg is Hexcel fiber. I "think" it comes from the Magna plant (Utah)

so that sounds like a 100% US product to me!

 

[James]

Tubes are US made in Utah. It's not a secret It has been that way forever.
OCLV is more that a marketing word. It's a process more advanced than most of the other bladder process on the market that my company (Radius Engineering) developed and licenced them in the early 90s. Sometimes it is used for the sole lugs, sometime for the whole bike (think Y bikes).

Not all composites frames are born equal and the trek frames are right up there.

Oh and the fiber/pre-repg is Hexcel fiber. I "think" it comes from the Magna plant (Utah)

so that sounds like a 100% US product to me!

Sorry, I didn't want to come off like I was bashing on Trek for any reason, or that I insinuated that any part of the OCLV bikes were not made in the US. I know that their tubes are made in the US, and are use of course some of the best carbon bikes around, I'd ride one without hesitation (save for the whole "having to pay a bunch of money for one" thing).
I just meant that "Optimum Compaction, Low Void" is kinda what every carbon mfr strives for. I don't think that Trek's carbon is nessecarily "better" than that used by a lot of the other big guys, they all strive for "low void" in their carbon.
It's not a secret, but something that the Trek guys don't go around crowing about though.
Anyway, to sum up: was not trying to start anything, Treks are awesome, US-made carbon bikes, and that there area a lot of cool carbon bikes out there too.


JJames

 

[mattv2099]

If its made outside the US then it should then cost less then the Six13 frames. I really doubt that though and its just going to be a cash cow for Cannondale. The shaped seat stays is laughable. You don't have to shape carbon stays on an all carbon bike to get it to ride nice.

The shaped stays supposedly allow the rear wheel to travel up and down a couple centimeters or something. Same technology as one of their mountain bikes which has 70mm rear travel due to shaped carbon stays.

 

[mattv2099]

I think Fasso is the only other team not spinning carbon bikes out of the 20 teams.

in the recent velonews they say 3300$ for ultegra build and 4400$ or dura ace build or something similar numbers.

 

[Mani_UT]

Anyway, to sum up: was not trying to start anything, Treks are awesome, US-made carbon bikes, and that there area a lot of cool carbon bikes out there too.

That is true there are a lot of good carbon fiber frames out there. Trek indeed does not have a monoply in that field! But there is also a lot of crap. Unfortunately the only way to find out is to cut them up (or wait for them to fail)

That is the whole problem it is hard to tell just from looking at them. I guess you could also xray to see wrinkles or disbonds them but then the "saving" would sort of go away .

As far as low void, yes all manufacturer strive for it. Not all of them achieve it consistently though! I have seen many absolutely horrible frames.

Lastly good practices go a long way. I had to trim my FSA Kforce carbon bars to make them shorter. When I saw the cross-section I alsmot fell on my ass. It looked like a thomson seatpost except that it was not intended to be that way. This bar is never going back on my bike nor any carbon fiber thingy I do not trust 100%.

Anyway I don't even own a carbon frame but rather some taiwanese brand (felt) so what am I talking about